NEW upgraded 600 size from Align!

[motorcycleguyr1]

Dont get your hopes up... This is not advertizing a new heli from Align. Im asking a question... When does Align plan on coming out with a new 600ESP. Like a V2 or something possible? Does anyone else think this is a good Idea? I think they need to take the 600ESP and give it a work over. What changes would you guys like to see?

[motorcycleguyr1]

Things that i think should be included...

1. 3rd Bering block
2. It should come stock with 2mm thick frames
3. Mod 1 maingear and a beefier 1 way bering
4. Upgraded torq tube gears. Stronger or larger like the Trex 700 gears.
5. I have always had issues with torqing down the tail case. That nut needs to be stronger. It strips out and you need to get a longer one with a lockwasher to secure it properly.
6. The front tail boom block needs to have upgraded area where you pinch the boom in. I have probs when you tighten too much the spot where the nut sits will rotate in the plastic and you cant get them as tight as you would like.

Those are my major conscerns. What do you guys have?

[Ken4]

Also needs a motor pinion counterbearing.

[motorcycleguyr1]

good point. It should also act as a frame brace further adding to reduce frame flexing.

[Ken4]

It is common problem for the top motor bearing/motor shaft for powerful motors to wear quickly and it causes problems with meshing. Mikado and Compass have this for their HV helis, hopefully align will have this option soon.

[Pitbro50]

Flybarless

[highland flyer]

No 5 and 6 are easily re-solved.

No 5 The 550 Tail gearbox housing fastens as per a 700 using the same running parts.

No 6 Use a locating screw as per the 600N

Brian

[reALIGNed]

I can't imagine ALIGN updating the 600 anytime soon,................they just did about a year ago, been named the "600ESP", replacing the belt driven CF model. And now w/the more efficient stock 6S set up on the 550E, ain't no chance in hell they'll improve the 600, in fact they may even discontinue it.

[DesJardins]

Suck to hear a rumor of discontinuing the 600, the reason I went 600 this month was to get the largest electric on 6S.... Because the price to run the 700E on batteries was just too much :-(

But if so then it is what it is :shrug:
Guess you have to pay to play or you don't play at all

[minititinflyer]

there a reason on y it was made so :roll: and there wouldnt discontinue its there longest standing big heli bc the was there first big heli

[DesJardins]

I guess this is why you never listen to forum talk until you see a formal post from the manufacturer... lol

Suggestions are great for advancements, opinions are based on personal speculation.

[motorcycleguyr1]

good tip with the 550 tail case. I might order some of those and upgrade my 600s.

[BigIreland]

I just want to stretch a 550E, go 10-12s and call it a day. That's how I'll get an upgraded 600E :D

[DesJardins]

Shoot if you go 550E, leave it as is and enjoy the power to weight ratio as it was designed IMHO. :shrug:

I almost went 550E for that reason but realized I'm no 3D master so I won't be doing and Szabo Jr. tricks anytime in the next year without. SIM! lol

That's the one downfall of me learning to fly on the real Heli vs a SIM but the Mac emulator sucks and I'll have to wait to get my hands on a PC tower I can hook up to my big tv

[rceccleston]

1. 3rd Bering block

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27708 (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=173879)
How to - 12s T-Rex 600 Setup On A Budget. (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=173879)

2. It should come stock with 2mm thick frames

CHP-T620 Custom Heli Parts - Trex 600 ESP 2mm Carbon Fiber Frames (Now Include Provisions for 3rd Bearing Block) (http://www.readyheli.com/CHP-T620-Custom-Heli-Parts--Trex-600-ESP-2mm-Carbon-Fiber-Frames-Now-Include-Provisions-for-3rd-Bearing-Block_p_32352.html)

http://www.readyheli.com/assets/images/photos/CHP-T620-1.jpg

3. Mod 1 maingear and a beefier 1 way bering

A KDE hub with either 700 mod 0.7 or 1.0 gear will be suffice.

AT (http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)550/ (http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)600-MGC
(http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)T700 MAIN GEAR CASE
ALUMINUM 6061-T6
ALIGN TREX 600 ELECTRIC SERIES

http://www.kdedirect.com/sitebuilder/images/AT550-600-MGC_Rendering-175x120.jpg

However, with well over 400 flights, the 12s 4025-550kv motor with 17T pinion hasn't yet stripped a main gear.

4. Upgraded torq tube gears. Stronger or larger like the Trex 700 gears.

Umm???

Better meshing retained by bonding shafts to inner racers of supporting bearings appears to be working well.

5. I have always had issues with torqing down the tail case. That nut needs to be stronger. It strips out and you need to get a longer one with a lockwasher to secure it properly.

A pinned version has been released.

Tail unit set H55039
http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h55039_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_72_81&products_id=3530)

6. The front tail boom block needs to have upgraded area where you pinch the boom in. I have probs when you tighten too much the spot where the nut sits will rotate in the plastic and you cant get them as tight as you would like.

Sounds like the bolts are being over tightened if the nuts are rotating within the plastic block.

The 'socket button head screw' should prevent the boom exiting the boom block mid-flight.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=48729

[DesJardins]

Great post!

[Helicentrik]

Why worry about a manufacturer discontinuing a particular model. I'm pretty sure that about 80% of my original ESP is not there any more but has been replaced with after market gear.

[DesJardins]

Ehhh my new ESP kit that was just built has all the new stuff anyways like the Pinned tail. Socket buttoned boom, new Mx motor....

[motorcycleguyr1]

Yes I am aware of all these things. I have KDE Hubs and either mod 1 or TREX 700 gears on all my 12s setups. I fixed the booms by drilling and pinning myself and I drill all my 3rd bering block locations. It would be nice though if they came setup this way so you dont have to do all the extra work and sink all the extra money into upgrades to handle 12s. especially when you crash and break a frame and have to re drill bering block holes everytime and cut the frame to accept a scorpion motor. The tail case though i did not know about. Very glad i found out about it. One of my big conserns though is not fixable... That would be the torq tube gears. The reason i try to torq down the boom case so tight i rotate the nuts in place is not to keep the tail from ejecting... It is to keep the tail from moving in. See i have this problem... I setup one 12s monster with a 4025-630 and for some reason keep shreading torq tube gears. So I switch to belt drive on that one to fix it. Well i can not maintain proper belt tightness because you cant pinch the boom solid. One run and it loosens up. you cant go any tighter because the nuts just spin in the plastic. I was told not to adjust the slack from the tail end of the boom. what were you refering to to stop the gear shreading? i did not understand what you ment..
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27708 (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=173879)
How to - 12s T-Rex 600 Setup On A Budget. (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=173879)



CHP-T620 Custom Heli Parts - Trex 600 ESP 2mm Carbon Fiber Frames (Now Include Provisions for 3rd Bearing Block) (http://www.readyheli.com/CHP-T620-Custom-Heli-Parts--Trex-600-ESP-2mm-Carbon-Fiber-Frames-Now-Include-Provisions-for-3rd-Bearing-Block_p_32352.html)

http://www.readyheli.com/assets/images/photos/CHP-T620-1.jpg



A KDE hub with either 700 mod 0.7 or 1.0 gear will be suffice.

AT (http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)550/ (http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)600-MGC (http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)
(http://www.kdedirect.com/TREX550600MGC.html)T700 MAIN GEAR CASE
ALUMINUM 6061-T6
ALIGN TREX 600 ELECTRIC SERIES

http://www.kdedirect.com/sitebuilder/images/AT550-600-MGC_Rendering-175x120.jpg

However, with well over 400 flights, the 12s 4025-550kv motor with 17T pinion hasn't yet stripped a main gear.



Umm???

Better meshing retained by bonding shafts to inner racers of supporting bearings appears to be working well.



A pinned version has been released.

Tail unit set H55039
http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h55039_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_72_81&products_id=3530)



Sounds like the bolts are being over tightened if the nuts are rotating within the plastic block.

The 'socket button head screw' should prevent the boom exiting the boom block mid-flight.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=48729

[rceccleston]

One of my big conserns though is not fixable... That would be the torq tube gears. The reason i try to torq down the boom case so tight i rotate the nuts in place is not to keep the tail from ejecting... It is to keep the tail from moving in. See i have this problem... I setup one 12s monster with a 4025-630 and for some reason keep shreading torq tube gears. So I switch to belt drive on that one to fix it. Well i can not maintain proper belt tightness because you cant pinch the boom solid. One run and it loosens up. you cant go any tighter because the nuts just spin in the plastic. I was told not to adjust the slack from the tail end of the boom. what were you refering to to stop the gear shreading? i did not understand what you ment..

I too am running a 12s setup, the creator of the How to - 12s T-Rex 600 Setup On A Budget. (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=173879), with no stripping of main gear or torque tube issues.

However, when installing the boom, I do the following which maybe making the difference.



Back the boom off by 1mm, so not to tension the boom,
Installed second torque tube bearing, 210mm from either end,
Bond inner racers of bearings to shafts, using 'Loctite 641 - Retaining Compound',

I found by bonding the inner racer of the bearing to the shaft, the meshing of the torque tube gearings can be adjusted and retained without the shafts turning within the inner racer.

The bond has never broken, even after stripping the gear during a crash, unless heat is applied to the shaft.

Personally, since 12s was a mere dream when the belts were designed, I doubt they have been tested to withstand the huge loads of 12s power systems.

[motorcycleguyr1]

when you say bond inner racers of berings to shaft I dont know what your talking about??? Are you saying the front torq tube gear needs locktight applied to the tips before you install it into the 2 little berings that pinch tight into the boom block?? Same with the rear? do you use locktight there as well? also how do you back the boom off and still have the hole where you pinn the boom line up? I hope this works out for me. This Belt tail is driving me crazy. I cant get it to hold solid no matter what i do. Its un predictable and dangerous. It keeps blowing out on me. And I cant keep the belt tight either.

[DesJardins]

when you say bond inner racers of berings to shaft I dont know what your talking about??? Are you saying the front torq tube gear needs locktight applied to the tips before you install it into the 2 little berings that pinch tight into the boom block?? Same with the rear? do you use locktight there as well? also how do you back the boom off and still have the hole where you pinn the boom line up? I hope this works out for me. This Belt tail is driving me crazy. I cant get it to hold solid no matter what i do. Its un predictable and dangerous. It keeps blowing out on me. And I cant keep the belt tight either.

Can you upgrade to the new tail boom and case with the button set screw?
That would stop it form moving

[rceccleston]

Are you saying the front torq tube gear needs locktight applied to the tips before you install it into the 2 little berings that pinch tight into the boom block??

Yes, apply a little 'retaining compound' on both ends of the shaft, install in boom block with bearings and leave to set over night once meshing has been adjusted.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=48803

Same with the rear?

Yes, apply a little 'retaining compound' on both ends of the shaft, install and leave to set over night.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=48804

Do you use locktight there as well?

No, Loctite 641 : Retaining Compound (http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/SID-7841F3AD-54CF8FCA/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/fullproduct-list-loctite-4995.htm?iname=Loctite+641&countryCode=uke&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=1000000IZT4).

also how do you back the boom off and still have the hole where you pinn the boom line up?

Could be done at either end since the hole in the boom is larger than the screw pinning the boom.

However, it's easily done on the tail since the tail unit is clamped, by marking the underside of the boom with a blade.

I hope this works out for me. This Belt tail is driving me crazy. I cant get it to hold solid no matter what i do. Its un predictable and dangerous. It keeps blowing out on me. And I cant keep the belt tight either.

TBH, I wouldn't expected the belt to last long on a 12s setup. :arggg:

[snjbird]

I think it would be cool if Align made a 600HV kit, why not, they are copying KDE stuff like the servo bracket on the 700, anti rotation bracket... Why not take a bunch of our "research" and capitalize on it?

Align already has a deal going with Castle on the ICE 120HV, how hard to get the ICE 80HV too? Who better to build a ESP frame with 3 bearing blocks than them? Or to build a lower KV 600MX motor... the 600MX 550?

Make it the 600HV3G... all we need is RX and Batteries...

I know have them make the frames Nitro wide, put the motor on top and give us a battery tray that slides under like the 700E.. 3600s could be used then, you would get 6 minutes of flight time @ 2200 smack flying HS! :thumbup: Oh hell yes!

[JesusFreak]

Check out the Rotorworkz HFE Edition frame. I think they are still selling them. Three bearing blocks, top motor mount, super light. Great frame.