9c versus 9z

[maxime]

Hi,

I would like to know what your opinion is on these transmitters. I currently own a 9c super radio, from which I am very satisfied and can program everything I want on the raptor including easy governor, but I have the opportunity to upgrade with some extra cash off course(about 200$ extra) to a 9zwc2 in good condition.

Currently I fly a raptor 50,but
with the eye open for a for a T-rex 600 which is CCPM setup, I wondered if it was really worth upgrading now from Tx? Not only for this issue, but I also understand the 9Z has less of a latency problem then the 9C super because of its faster processor?

or should I hold on upgrading, and buy the XPS system on 2.4Ghz, which solves latency issue, and apparently also the CCPM interaction.

Please give me your honest opinions

[z11355]

I have a 9Z.

I'm waiting for an XPS or other 2.4 system. I know someone who went from a 9C to a DX7
and the difference in performance and 'feel' was amazing.

[maxime]

I've sent a mail to the XPS guys asking if I would notice a difference betwoon a 9z 2.4ghz and a ff9 2.4 ghz, and they said:

The problems with the FF9 are inside of the radio's coding and there is nothing that can fix it except replacing the radio with a 9Z!

So the 9Z would work better on 2.4ghz then the ff9?

[kgfly]

If you look here you will see that the 9Z also has pretty awful CCPM performance.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/8588/latency_pcm.jpg
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/

A remarkable number of people are selling their 9z/12z/9303/3810 and even some 14mz having tried the DX7. You might want to seriously consider it as an alterntative.

[maxime]

yes I know, but I don't like the programming of the dx7, nor the design of the radio(buttons and place where you hook up the neck strap). in stead of the 9Z which is much much better.

It's a difficult choice. perhaps the 9303 radio+XPS is better for ccpm, and not the Futaba radio's anymore(although I really liked Futaba :( )

don't know what to do

[kgfly]

Certainly a 9303+XPS/XL will be killer combination with far better performance than a 9Cs or 9z.

Of course while I agree that XPS/XL looks like a fantastic proposition, it's not out yet, maybe in Mar. Since you have a working Tx already why not wait a few months and see what happens ? The DX9 will probably be out in your Summer and XPS should also well and truly be out by then and reports from early adopters readily available.

Note that the DX7 is based on the JR7202 with some changes. The speculation is that the DX9 will be based on the 9303 (aka 9xII). If you don't like the programming style of the DX7 it's possible you won't like the 9303/DX9 either. Why not have a look at the 9303 manual (I'm sure you could download it) or go see one in real life and see if you like it. IMO changing between manufacturers is more a matter of just getting used to something different, which often feels uncomfortable at first but you quickly get over it if you persist.

If you love Futaba then just stick with the 9Cs and get XPS/XL when it comes out. The CCPM performance difference to the 9z, if any, isn't worth the $200 IMO. After all, despite the poor CCPM performance in tests, it seems thousands of heli pilots fly with it successfully and are very happy.

[maxime]

I just don't like the transmitter case of the dx7. don't like the feeling of the sticks(on the 7202) nor the placement of the switches.

Guess I'll wait on the 9303, or for the moment stick with the 9C and upgrade to the XPS system. however, the 9Z does have the bling factor :(

[kgfly]

Well if the bling will bring back your smile, heck, it's only $200, it won't be worse than the 9Cs and you can still upgrade to XPS later if you like.

Otherwise there are good deals on second hand 9303s all the time as their owners convert to DX7 :wink:

[DavidH]

The 9Z WC2 is a better radio than the 9C super. Once you get the idea behind programming the radio it is fairly straight forward.
I have found no problems flying an eCCPM heli with the 9ZWCII. The swash plate always tracked straight and level using 9252 servos. If there is/was an eCCPM compensation problem with the WC2. I never saw it, and some of the pilots that I fly with I never heard them mention it.

I would do the upgrade.


David

[wjvail]

Both the 9Z and 9C are fantastic radios and both fill a different niche. I flew a 9Z for 10+ years.

The Z radios have programming for different "conditions". The 9C does not. To the best of my knowledge, nor do any other radios (with the obvious exception of the 14 and 12MZ). I've found that many do not grasp the power of this tool. I've met fixed wing fliers that fly a 9Z and have never set up a condition. They don't grasp the power associated with the option of setting up a condition.

For those that aren't familiar with the notion of conditions, it basically allows you to change model memories for your model in flight with a flick of a switch. In fact, you can set up 8 different model memories for one airplane.

An example might help. Say you have a fixed wing airplane and would like to extend the flaps. Simple enough to set up in almost any radio. With the option of conditions, you could consider setting up a "landing condition". It'd be like switching from model #2 to model #3 in your transmitter and in the process, adjusting everything associated with "landing". With the flip of a switch, you could lower the flaps but you could also extend the gear, actuate some flap->elevator mixing, reprogram the control throws/expo, re-trim the the throttle for a lower idle, turn on the landing light... and just about anything else you'd like to do in association with "landing". Same goes with knife edge flight. You could simply turn on your mixes, or you could set up a "knife edge condition".

Probably more on point for this forum, wouldn't you like to change more than your throttle curve when you select idle-up? If you go from idle-up 2 to throttle hold for an auto, do you really want 3D throws?

It's not a simple concept and I don't know if I've explained it well.

As some have suggested, the DX7/7202 are great radios. The Spektrum radios are new and revolutionary and I have no doubt that the spread spectrum technology will continue to develop. From the perspective of programing features/flexibility and in comparison to the 9Z/12MZ/14MZ, the DX7/7202 are not in the same league. In fairness to JR, these radio were never intended to complete for the same market.

Bill Vail

[wjvail]

Kenneth (kgfly)

This is the second thread we have both posted to offering radio advice. http://helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=28882&highlight= I understand that you like the Spektrum radios but I'm reading your posts as more than advice and closer to sales.

Am I miss reading this? Am I the only one?

Bill Vail

[kgfly]

Great explanation Bill. The 9/12/14mz offer a level of sophistication in the programming that is ahead of most other radios. I believe that the Multiplex EVOs are also amazingly flexible with their own unique programming model but I don't know how they compare to the Futaba z-family.

There is no doubt that the advanced features of the z-family out-strip those of the DX7 (and maybe the DX9 when it comes out) which as you say, have a different target market, being setup against the 7chp and 9chp respectively. The z-family are in a much high price bracket which is underwritten by their extended capabilities. I doubt that most pilots would have a use for those capabilities on most helis, or perhaps it's more accurate to say that I doubt most pilots would miss having them. In contrast, the benefits of 2.4GHz spread spectrum technology are real, substantial and relevant to a large majority of pilots.

In the end it is a very subjective choice. Have fun choosing :D

[kgfly]

Bill,

Fair question. It's all just my opinion. I have no connection to Spektrum or Horizon or any hobby business of any kind. I am just an enthusiast with an engineering background, a tendency to research deeply into things that interest me and a willingness to share my opinion in a spirit of transparent and open discussion.

Fair enough ?

[wjvail]

Fair enough ?


Kenneth... More than fair! Sorry if I read more into than I sould have. Thanks.

Bill Vail

[maxime]

I'm concidering more and more the 9Z.

not only for bling factor, but also for better responds and CCPM setup(which I'll hopefully have soon on a T-rex 600). I think I'll go for the leap, and buy some parts of the 600 allready.

[wjvail]

For those that aren't familiar with the notion of conditions, it basically allows you to change model memories for your model in flight with a flick of a switch. In fact, you can set up 8 different model memories for one airplane.

I just reread what I wrote and want to be clear about something. You can't change model memories in flight... but you functionally can... by changing conditions. The verbiage "change model memories" is mine and not Futaba's. Futaba would say you can change conditions. You can set up 8 different conditions for one airplane or heli. Within any condition you can change a wide variety of settings.

Just to be clear,

Bill Vail

[akschu]

I would trade my 9cap super for a 9zwc2 in a second. If you don't want to do it let me know.

schu