blade cpp, and intro

[shaggybirdman]

hi everyone. my real name is Jerry, and a no0b to helis. i have a blade cx2, and love it to death. only have had it for a month now, and i can burn a full pack, and keep it under control. actual flight time is probably a week and a half. i've gone threw 6 sets of lower blades so far, and not a single upper. e-flite should double there production on blades. granted a coaxial heli is very easy to fly, but i'm getting great tail control training.

anyhow

i'm starting my research on my next heli. i was wondering if i should get a blade cpp, or get a t-rex, or another heli. i am leaning towards a nitro heli though. reasons are:

1) nitro fuel is a 2:1 of batteries (1 gallon : 1 pack)
2) flight time per tank vs batt
3) time between flights
4) amount of wind a nitro can take. we have more windy days than not.
i fly my zaggi in any amount of wind. i love my zaggi :mrgreen:
5) bigger flies better.

now i'm not ready for the next step, but i want to know what i want when i am. what's everyones opinion on the next steep from my cx2? electric, or nitro. i realy want a 90 size, but way to expansive in either electric, or nitro.

thanks in advance.

Jerry

[Raysun]

I started with a CX in October, have two CPPros, a HB CP2 and just flew my HDX450 first time last night at our monthly indoor funfly (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

After two months I can hover tail in indefinetly now, and have looped my CCpro at our club field (lots and lots of altitude, and tons of sim practice).

My thoughts and reflections..........

First, the CX does NOT teach you to fly a heli. It really doesn't. But it teaches controls and orientation which is crucial. Its also huge fun and a great way to get your friends to try this. I use it for indoor school flying demos, (and let the kids fly the right stick..they love it!).

With any CCPM gasor electric you pretty much start all over, and its a BIG step, but it can be done.

Small micros like the CPPro will teach you a lot about building, rebuilding, rebuilding and tuning helis, and they are cheap. But, a big step up from any coax.

My brief advice is first, get a GOOD sim with controls box. I have FS-1 and it has enormously improved my learning. Personally I like it a lot...very accurate heli modelling especially micros. Use it as a way to judge how difficult small vs. mid size helis are, and maybe you will just get a big gasser. Bigger is more stable, but a lot faster, so you really need to know what you are doing. Small microelectrics are twitchy and frustrating at first but good training. And you can fly almost anytime anywhere.

Whatever you do, give yourself lots of room and no wind especially first time. I have found most crashes at first are the result of flying in too small a space, period. Also look up Radd's school of rotary flight on internet. It does work but you need to strictly follow it.

Good luck!

Ray

[Raysun]

Oh one more thing. Pan on at least two or three helis. That way at least probably one will be flyable so you can continue to learn which is important while the other two are waiting for parts. Ask me how I know.

Ray

[carlo_the_wonder_frog]

As you move up in size you start spending alot more money. A good T-Rex setup is going to be around $1500-$2000 if you don't already have a good CCPM Tx. Expect more money as you move up in size. Now figure in how much replacement parts are going to cost, because they are going to break.

A nitro heli is a good idea, they fly very stable. Lots of pros to them as you stated. Couple of things I dont like about them though. More field support equipment I have to take along, starter, fuel, charger for the Rx batteries, glow plug ignitor, fuel pump and a caddy to carry it all in. They make alot more noise than electric, so flying around the neighborhood probably isn't such a good idea and then there is the after flight goo cleanup. Nitro goo isn't that bad, but I get kind of lazy and don't get it all off right away, its kind of a chore.

The blade CPP flies pretty good out of the box, and if you can fly it well you can fly just about any heli out there. Plenty of potential and really helps to have a good transmitter instead of the stock one. Great parts support

The T-rex is a 3D machine, its a whole new level of heli compared to the CPP. Top notch heli. Highly recommended. Great parts support.

Lots of options out there, I hope you find one that works well for you.

[shaggybirdman]

:fly

i have a sim. all be it a older version of real flight. the one before G2. ya i know i'll be learning all over with a single rotor heli. i keep trying to tell my friend this, but he doesn't understand, or believe me.

i just don't want to buy, and re buy helis. i want to step up to something i'll be flying for a long time. that's why i'm looking at a nitro for my next heli. hmmmmm .....

2 or 3 helis hu? ok i'll consider that for a moment, but i'm still wondering witch. blade cp pro, t-rex, or the Venom Night Ranger 3DXL. these are the 3 my lhs stocks parts for. witch would make sense in buying. as i'm told the venom is very pricey, and sometimes hard to get parts. the t-rex is very pricey. i guess the cpp is probably the best bang for the buck. but now it's more batteries. i have 10 for my cx2. ya i know i don't need 10, but when the motors are cool i can keep flying. i also got a good deal on them. $21 each 850's 15c discharge. got 7 of them, and 3 stock e flites. now i need blades. i'm willing to spend $500+ on a nitro, but i realy want a spectrum radio. all my cars are going to them this season. i also want a nice heading lock gyro. not so hot on these 3 in 1 receivers.

hmmmm i'll have to serch here for the conversion. i think i saw a post about it.

to many options. grrrrrrrr :dontknow :fly

i sure would like the t-rex though

[shaggybirdman]

As you move up in size you start spending alot more money. A good T-Rex setup is going to be around $1500-$2000 if you don't already have a good CCPM Tx. Expect more money as you move up in size. Now figure in how much replacement parts are going to cost, because they are going to break.

A nitro heli is a good idea, they fly very stable. Lots of pros to them as you stated. Couple of things I dont like about them though. More field support equipment I have to take along, starter, fuel, charger for the Rx batteries, glow plug ignitor, fuel pump and a caddy to carry it all in. They make alot more noise than electric, so flying around the neighborhood probably isn't such a good idea and then there is the after flight goo cleanup. Nitro goo isn't that bad, but I get kind of lazy and don't get it all off right away, its kind of a chore.

The blade CPP flies pretty good out of the box, and if you can fly it well you can fly just about any heli out there. Plenty of potential and really helps to have a good transmitter instead of the stock one. Great parts support

The T-rex is a 3D machine, its a whole new level of heli compared to the CPP. Top notch heli. Highly recommended. Great parts support.

Lots of options out there, I hope you find one that works well for you.

ya nitro goo is a pain. i race 5 rc cars. i know all about it, but there is way less goo on a heli than a plane. that's why i fly electric planes. my zaggi lives in my trunk in the good weather months.

i'm considering a century hawk. i already have a heli radio, but unfortunately it's not ccpm. i already have the support equiptment, so thats a plus. i want a spectrum dx7 real bad.

i just don't know what i'll end up with :(

[Raysun]

The TRex is great. I built the HDX which is a TRxSE clone, I'm just getting it trimmed and balanced, one pack so far but great. I went budget route..Align HH and cheap servos, but DX6 so no shoot downs. Its fine for what I want, bulletproof, and enough programmability for me anyway. Cheap compared to DX7.

I have flown a Helimax MX400 as well. Funfly nite pilot saw me hover my CPPro last month and said hell if you can fly that you can fly anything, and just handed me his radio. I'm not kidding. It was night and day vs. CPP, but you still have to fly it. Hooked. So CPP is very very good training...and as others have said on this forum once you fly the TRx or any 450 size, all of a sudden the CPPro becomes more fun, its almost toy like and you sense you can fool around with it where the TRx is one serious heli.

I have no plans to ditch my CPP's.....I'll try stuff with them first before the HDX. They are also RTF, and thats fun. Building and setting up a TRx or any 450 is a lot of work, but satisfying. Look for a used one, LHS here has an MX400 with motor and ESC for 250 Cdn. Add servos, radio and packs and you are up for 6-700. Lets see..I have radio and packs.....Hmmmm.

Ray

[Jermo]

The CP/CPP is HARDER to fly than the T-Rex. I'd look at the T-Rex450, T-Rex600 or the Raptor series. I believe the Raptor has a nitro version of one of their Helis... I also read something on the forums that Align (makers of Trex) are coming out with a nitro version. That could be an advantage because I'd expect the nitro version to share alot of parts with the electric versions.
Jermo

[shaggybirdman]

i'm leaning towards a nitro heli. it will probably be a century hawk pro, but not 100% sure yet. if the CP/CPP is a more difficult heli to fly is there another single rotor heli that would be better for me to start out with?

i have time to decide witch i will end up with. witch would you recommend. i realy don't want to spend a fortune either. i have a 6 chan futaba heli radio now that i have been using for plains.

[Skiddz]

Whichever way you go, make sure that spares (and/or help) are available nearby. Nothing worse than having to wait a week for parts when a 20 min drive to the shop can have you back in the air in a couple hours.

[shaggybirdman]

i totally agree, but my lhs caries a limited selection of helis. they stock 5 electric helis, and no nitro. waiting is normal for me. i race a serpent impact, and due to the small number of them in the area they stock only a few parts for it. hi breakage parts.

i guess i should start a string in the nitro forum as well. it's kinda funny though. no one has realy said to get this, or that heli yet. if cash was plentiful i'd get the t rex, but at $1000+ it's realy out of the question. can a ccpm heli be flown without a ccpm radio? i mean can it be setup to fly without ccpm mixing? i'm no where near being able to fly 3d yet.

[Jermo]

[quote="shaggybirdman"]<cut> if the CP/CPP is a more difficult heli to fly is there another single rotor heli that would be better for me to start out with?

<cut>[quote]
T-Rex 450 is easier than the CP/CPP to fly. I'm a new, I can hover my trex, I can't hover a friends CPP (not properly or safely.
Jermo

[shaggybirdman]

so a cpp is going to be a hand full for a no0b like myself. i guess you realy do get what ya pay for? my friend realy wants a cpp for his first single rotor heli. well it's still quite a way off yet.

[warpspeed]

If you're leaning toward the Century unit, I'd say go for it. One thing no one has mentioned yet is that these micro heli's are a handful in the wind, and can quickly get away from you if it gets gusty.
If you'll only be flying indoors the CPP will be fine.
Check out the Trex 450SA-the cheapest way to get into a rex and parts for it are everywhere.
BTW, the CPP is not cheaper to repair than the rex in SOME instances-blades for example, something you will go thru like mad, are actually cheaper for the rex than the CPP!

[dbercot]

I think raysun hit the nail on the head. I have Blade CX, CP, CP Pro, TRex 450XL and TRex 450SE (not flown yet).

I love them all, but rarely touch the CX. Fly the CP Pro most often due to its size. The 450 XL I fly pretty often, and I have NEVER crashed it (creepy). I'm looking forward to flying the SE, but have to invest in more radio equipment.

The CP Pro you can buy and fly, gotta like that. Buy one and start learning, and if you have the funds, buy the 450 and start building. It took me quite a long time to get the 450 in the air, and I still don't know how to adjust the gyro.

[tppjr]

..... it's kinda funny though. no one has realy said to get this, or that heli yet. if cash was plentiful i'd get the t rex, but at $1000+ it's realy out of the question. can a ccpm heli be flown without a ccpm radio? i mean can it be setup to fly without ccpm mixing? i'm no where near being able to fly 3d yet.

OK, I will, get a Trex. I got a CX just before Christmas, tons of fun but very limited. Got a G2.5 sim and spent mucho hours on there playing with the other birds. Picked up a CP Pro because of the value and quickly realized it's weaknesses. Got a good TX, 6CHPS, made a great difference with the CP. You WILL spend more on the CP in upgrades and tinkering than you will on the Rex (at least I would have) so I am now finishing up on a Trex SE build. I will keep the CPP for indoor fun and I really enjoy it but I think I will be very happy I got the Rex.

There will be a big learning curve with either one you get going from the CX but if you are only going to get one more and funds are limited then I would go with the Rex. More now but not in the long run.

Thomas

[Raysun]

Yup you will love the Rex. I like my CPP's but seem to continue to have to buy spares due not to lack of flying skill but limitations of the heli itself...radio glitch shoot downs have cost at least two booms and blades, and sticky collective problems on HBCP2 have smashed another two or three sets of blades.

When you have a problem with these (CPP/HB) disaster is instant, while the Rex just hums along, have flown out 6 packs or so, no problems.

Don't ignore the CX, it has more speed and maneuverability than you think..plus easy to get your friends flying! Just get a damage deposit/case of beer first.

Ray

[chopperdudes]

continue to have to buy spares due not to lack of flying skill but limitations of the heli itself
not true. out of the box the blade cpp will hover inverted just fine given you have the skills to do so. i have owned a blade cp since last july and now it's basically a cpp. i have used the stock setup up to learning flips and stationary rolls, with a radio upgrade, (you'll eventually need it with bigger helis), the bird will fly REALLY smooth and well, you can probably get a dd tail and a hh gyro and you can learn ALOT with this bird. with that said, the trex should be WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY better (i'm getting one soon :lol: ), but it's just not in the same league, $1000+ vs. $250rtf.

[Jermo]

[quote]
<cut>but it's just not in the same league, $1000+ vs. $250rtf.

It's not a straight up price comparison. You have to consider the total cost of ownership, use, and future value.

CPP repair parts generally cost more than T-Rex
CPP is HARDER to learn to Fly than T-Rex (thus requiring more repair parts)
CPP Radio and other electronics are pretty much trash when you move on.
CPP loses a much higher percentage of it's value just being bought.

While the up front costs may appear higher you'll quickly find you always get what you pay for. Maybe some folks are exceptional and just flew their CP/CPP with low crash rates. That's the exception rather than the rule.

Don't give new folks advice on what you can do. Give them all sides. Otherwise they just start thinking bad things about themselves because they can't do what you said they should be able to do.

E-Flight products are not high quality (which explains the price). To expect long term low cost of ownership from anything they make is just niave.
Jermo

Edit: I do think the CP/CPP might be an ok 2nd or 3rd heli after you know how to fly and want something to fly inside.

[carlo_the_wonder_frog]

I think E-Flite makes pretty good stuff, its not the Bomb, but it sure isnt crap. Their airplanes all seem to be really good ( I own 4) and their helis CX & CP are better than most of the choices out there for the micro scene. Granted some of the electronics they put in the RTF machines is low quality, but all of it is upgradeable to some extent.

A total n00b can learn to fly on a CPP, but it isn't easy. Buying a T-Rex is a much steeper learning curve, you have to get it setup and running yourself, but it flies 100 times better than a CPP. Either way you are going to have alot of fun and alot of heartache.

[Raysun]

Agree,

Flew out three packs this aft with HDX450SE (TRx clone) in a squash court.
Not a lot of room but enough. Since Saturday (first flight) have flown maybe twelve packs, no crashes, period.

Just hums along, very stable and predictable, but...........still need to fly it. Enjoying playing with throttle/pitch curves and expo on my DX6.

Somehow I think I'm enjoying the 450 a lot more having earned my hovering wings with my CPPro, which will teach you a lot. But either way its a journey for sure.

Ray

[Jermo]

more $$ up front with less frustration = T-Rex (not sure how the HDX450 compares to the T-Rex but I'm guessing they are comparable..check with your LHS for parts availability to help guide your choices).

less $$ up front with more frustration = Anything Eflight has other than the CX. AND I doubt you can use any of the radio gear from a CP/CPP on any real heli you may upgrade to later. The CP/CPP also have a much lower resale value. It seems that mostly new pilots are getting these, get discouraged, then quit the hobby and dump their birds. I saw a Blade CPP almost new sit in consignment at Christmas for $100 (no damage at all with some upgrades). January 1 it was still sitting there (ok really Jan3 when the LHS opened :) )..

Your results may vary.
Jermo

[chopperdudes]

Quote:

<cut>but it's just not in the same league, $1000+ vs. $250rtf.


It's not a straight up price comparison. You have to consider the total cost of ownership, use, and future value.


i believe the total cost of ownership is pretty low for the blade, basically no maintainance, no oiling and soldering and buying electronics. the cost of use is basically none as long as you've got the skills to fly it, this can't be blamed on teh heli, if one flew a trex, adn crash it (ie. ****** and his speakers :D ), would you say that the trex is not good?! it is in a sense RTF, may not be well trimmed, but trimming and adjusting linkages are very simple compared to the rex. with maybe help from local pilots (alot of ppl have it) and trimming, it can be very smooth and enjoyable. future value, hmm... that's a question weather if you want to sell it or not?! it'll be a fun heli even though you have a rex, and can try out new moves with it. so wat's the future value for the rex? is there anyone that can fly it selling it? not that i've seen. so if you decide to not stay with this hobby, you can sell the blade for about 100$ less? but what about a rex? can you sell a rex with less than 100 bux lost from teh initial value? maybe it might be a smaller percent, but the price is the same.


CPP repair parts generally cost more than T-Rex
CPP is HARDER to learn to Fly than T-Rex (thus requiring more repair parts)
CPP Radio and other electronics are pretty much trash when you move on.
CPP loses a much higher percentage of it's value just being bought.

some cpp parts are more expensive, but wait till you see the blings on the rex. and yes, even though a spindle and mainshaft cost less on teh rex, an identical crash from the blade will do less damage due to the lower headspeed.
harder to learn... not neccessary, i've learnt pass ff before breaking a single part, if i (this 15yo) can do it, i believe you can too, and especially with the help of radd and a set of trainin gears. if you go slow... no, you CAN'T crash. crashing is really basically going beyond what you can do (or mechanical failures). if you master the hover one inch off the ground before going higher, you CAN'T break anything if you have the training gear and drop the throttle.
why would you want to put the electronics of a blade on something else? just like can you put the electronic of a rex into a rappy 50? yes, they are junk on any other helis, but it performs well when it does what it's suppose to do, be electronics on the blade.

CPP loses a much higher percentage of it's value just being bought.

that can't be argued :lol: anything does, just maybe the blade will lose more.


While the up front costs may appear higher you'll quickly find you always get what you pay for. Maybe some folks are exceptional and just flew their CP/CPP with low crash rates. That's the exception rather than the rule.

i've flown my blade to the extent of inverted hover now, and in this 6ish month, i've spent around 400 bux on repairs, excluding tx/dd tail/gyro upgrade. but this 400 bux have taken me from a complete noob to someone doing inverted hover, and that, plus the original blade, will probably only get you a trex lx, and i bet you'll have to put more than 600 bux in it (including original rex) will get you to hover inverted from a noobie. but with the blade, your much less afraid of crashing, which gets you learning faster, and it'll be more enjoyable once you stepup to a higher end heli.

everybody advances at their own pace, there's no hurry, i kno of ppl who's still hovering after 3 months, no big deal, if you follow radd's and go slowly but surely, you can advance as fast as i do, after all, i'm a 15yo newspaper delivery boy who has to pay everything himself, (which really sets me back). (don't quote me on this :lol: )

eflight parts are not really low quality, in fact they are higher quality than other micros on the market, you cant really compare that to a rex as as i said, they're not in the same league. just like comparing the rexy to a Vibe.

after all, he has experience with the blade cx.

[chopperdudes]

hmmmm... i wonder what i'll say once i get an SE :lol: :twisted:

[Jermo]

Chopper your qualifying statement that EVERYONE needs to see <cut>as long as you've got the skills to fly it<cut>

Even the Pro's crash perfectly assembled and maintained Helis. No reasonable person can agree the cost of a CP/CPP to be zero "as long as you've got the skills to fly it". IF that were the case then the better quality heli's would cost ZERO. The facts are that for every happy CP/CPP owner you can find I can find DOZENS that abandoned our hobby as a result of toy helicopters pandered by hobby shops in the name of profits.

Expecting a new person to successfully and happily learn on a CP/CPP is like expecting to win the lottery, it isn't going to happen often if at all.

I don't know any new person who has EVER learned on a CP/CPP and had low cost/maintenance/frustration. DO you? The only people I know of successfully flying the CP/CPP are those that have pumped alot of time/money/frustration into it OR who have successfully learned on a different heli.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm just a bit frustrated at folks pushing these on new folks and NOT accurately setting the person's expectations.

If you were honest and counted up all your time/expense/frustration I wonder just how much that would be in $$?

I see the point where someone wants to "play" with helis and not get into the hobby...for them any cheap toy is probably fine (some are better than others). I just don't see pushing new folks down the hard path. If they have LOTS of hands on help available..ie buddy boxes.etc then maybe it's an option. For most of us it's self taught and funded.
Jermo