I really really really need some motor help

[MicroMan]

I finally want to get a good motor for my logo now that 99% of it is completed. Ive kind of narrowed it down to the Z-Power Z30A-1100 but I'm afraid I may outgrow it down the road.

Ive been doing my homework on how batteries, gearing all affect headspeed and Ive been playing around with a Headspeed calculator as well. My second choice is a Hacker motor but I'm not too sure how Hackers and Castle esc's work together,

I have to admit beyond what Ive described I'm totally clueless on which motor to get for my Logo. Ace in the hole gave me some real good info below about headspeed and so on.

I'm looking at 1600-1700 to start with then move up as I progress. I guess what Im looking for is your motor choices along with pinion size and battery choice. I know its a lot to ask for but I really would appreciate the help



1600-1700 good starting point, beginners to intermediate
1800-1900 middle of the road, advanced flyers
2000 + = some one looking for all the performance he can get.

[loopzilla]

Hey,

If you have the budget, and want a motor that has the largest range of performance (low headspeed to high headspeed), the Tango series really can't be beat.

I have a Z-Power 1100 in mine at the moment, with a Jazz 55. I really doubt you would ever outgrow it! Plenty of power, but not much dynamic range.

However, I only have the Z-Power because I am waiting for the new Hacker A-40 series, and will be swapping the minute I have one in my hands.

How are you calculating headspeed? Things have changed a bit from traditional due to the increased ability of the batteries to hold their voltage, and the 'sweet spots' of the newer outrunner motors. Reply with your calculations, and maybe I can help more.

[MicroMan]

Hey Loopzilla thanks for taking the time to respond, below are the calculations I used. I wish I could afford a Tango motor they are really pricey.

Battery Pack: 7s - 25.9 volts

Main Gear Teeth: 200

Motor Pinion: 13

Motor Kv: 1110 (Z30A-1100)

Drag Co-Efficient: 90%

Headspeed: 1682

[loopzilla]

OK, that looks reasonable, except that the drag Co-Efficient is most likely a little high, and something we don't factor in as such. However, that number does equate to running a throttle curve (or ESC gain) of 90%, so it still works out.

There is another method I have been using, but I need to know what you want your target headspeed to be. Here is an example nontheless:

Target Headspeed: 2200
Main Gear Teeth: 200
Motor Kv: 1100
Input Voltage: 7S = 25.9 on older packs, maybe 27.3 on newer packs

So, this is how I do it, and it has been working out when we tach the results:

((Target Headspeed * Main Gear teeth) / (Motor Kv * Pack Volts)) * 1.2 = Pinion Size

Just to clarify, that 1.2 multipler takes into account the drag, idealized ESC gain settings (usually around 85% for most motors on goverened input), and motor efficiency.

All that said, you may need to calculate particular motors a little differently. Some motors and ESCs work better at certain shaft RPM and certain ESC gain. In this case, you need to figure in the optimum shaft RPM as specified by the manufacturer, or the ESC gain you have found to be more efficient.

One real world example would include my Logo 10. I am running 6S FP packs, 1100 Kv, 138 main gear, and a 15t pinion, Jazz ESC at 85% gain. If you calculate this by the traditional method, you would get a headspeed of:

((22.2v * 1100Kv * 15t) / 138t) * 0.85 = 2256 RPM

In reality, I am seeing 2300 on the head with the governor active, but the motor runs very efficient. I could raise or lower the gain to dial in anywhere between 2100 and 2400 RPM, without much sacrifice in performance. Outside of those numbers, it would mean re-gearing.

People are sometimes seeing better efficiency when the Castle Creations speed controls are running a Neu 1515/2Y at 55% gain. This would force a much larger gear reduction (larger pinion), but puts both the motor shaft RPM and the ESC in a more stable range.

It's all in the application and choice of components. Then, you have to add a heap of BLACK MAGIC and lots of testing...

[MicroMan]

Wow I think my brain just exploded looking at all of that math lol. Thanks for reminding me about the governor. All I can say is that you're a wealth of knowledge, thanks for sharing it with me. So you really think I wont outgrow the Z30A-1100, if not I'll just wait until Gary has them in stock.

[loopzilla]

Thanks for the ego boost, but I am just another person in the chain of those who have contributed to the community. You're expected to do the same, with your own influence and experience.

Find the new Hacker A-40! It should be that much more powerful (if the legacy the A-50 has created holds true), and be comparably priced. I should have mine soon!

[MicroMan]

No problem I like it when a person knows his stuff, and you know your stuff lol.

[Motions]

When your whole life is electrics and that's what you do on a daily basis, you better know your stuff. And Loop definitely does.

I'm running the same setup on my L10 and couldn't be happier. Z30A-1100, Jeti Spin 55, 19T pinion running at 2200 RPM. The motor and ESC never even get warm on hard 3D. With the availability of pinions, it's easier to get the sweet spot on a particular motor. I'm still using drag co-efficient on my calculator. If I reverse calculate my setup, the formula comes out with 100% drag co-efficient so motors have gotten better or my calculator no worky.

I see you change your domain name. That certainly increased the value. :smokin:

[BobbySmith]

Hi Micro man i have done alot of Esc testing and motor testing in the L10 running 6s would be a better choice wiht the Z30-1100 motor

I fly Hard 3d and the z30 -1100 motor along witht the 3700 6s evo packs witht a Jet spin 66 for esc is a very hard combo to beat you would never out grow that combo just gear it accordingly i have atleast 80 flight on my one z30 motor spinning the head @ 2300 and power is jsut insane
I cantwait for A40 hackers!!

Bobby

[Motions]

What are the specs on the A40's? Fan included in these as well?

[loopzilla]

The Hacker A40 has been long overdue, and I believe there will be two 'long' versions coming first, specifically for the Logo 500 machines. There will be two Kv's, which I have notes for on my desk at work. I'll try to post that info on Monday, unless someone else has the info handy.

I think they will include the fan, and will look just like the new A50 series (large ball bearings in the shaft end, fan, and retaining screws in the lower part of the bell).

[dva]

Another good motor for the Logo 10 or Logo 500 would be anAlign motor from the T-rex 600 (L or XL). If cost is an issue this motor would work great on 6s.

DVA

[MicroMan]

Well I couldnt get my hands on a Z30 so I got a Hacker A30-8XL. I know I know I should have waited for the A40 oh well, I got tired of looking at my Logo with an empty motor tray lol.

[BobbySmith]

For basic flying the A30 will work i seen gary wright flying3d wiht his l10 wiht that motor on 5s pretty impressive

[MicroMan]

Cool thanks Bobby, hey I sent you a pm.

[loopzilla]

Hehe, Gary does have the lightest Logo 10 setup I have ever seen. It came in at like 4.8 pounds AUW. He has a flying style that suits the setup really well, and he seemed to get good duration.

Good news is that the A40 will be comparably priced, so you won't break the bank to upgrade. Find someone wanting a 25 sized Ultra Stick, and you can give them the A30!

Bobby will have the first A40 we get to put through the ringer. Then the rest of the team will follow if it proves itself.

[onesubdrvr]

Find someone wanting a 25 sized Ultra Stick, and you can give them the A30!


AMAZING,....that's EXACTLY what I'm looking for to put my A30 in!!

Went to a swapmeet today,......heli's I couldn't afford, but picked up a small .25 sized high wing with brushed motor for fun,....so still looking for the right stick to put my A30 in!!

And even if I don't get one, I can't see being happier than I am now with my Logo,....now if I could just the the gnards and time to maiden it, I'd be all right :roll:

Wayne

[Motions]

Gary does have the lightest Logo 10 setup I have ever seen. It came in at like 4.8 pounds AUW.
I flew with the JAX boys today and finally weighed my L10... 5.0lbs. AUW. I was very surprised. I was thinking at least 6lbs.

[gwright]

actually, it's 4 lbs 10 oz, so about 4.6 not 4.8 <G>
That may change, however, as it needs a touch of noseweight, so I might go 6S and gear down a tooth or two.