Help! I am about ready to give up!!

[Kushal_22]

Well not really...but i figured it woulf get your guy`s attention and show you how fustrated i am.

Now i do learn things each day and it helps to keep me "Going". But i just seem to keep going "Round and Round"Hmmm funny how that is :D

Amyways I am having problems with the Pitch of the blades. So far I am still in "Norm" Mod
Problem is when i go past half stick my blades go to NEGITIVE PITCH....Not only this but i have MORE NEG Pitch than i do POSITIVE PITCH agian this is in NORM mod. I have not even begun to look into IDLE UP 1 Tell me what Have i done wrong and what do i do to fix it? Believe me when i say i know how hard it is to diagnose someones heli problem without seeing the heli(And i am a Noob) but any suggestions would be great. I Tell ya i have been seriously thinking about taking a 3 HR drive through a mountian pass to go to a LHS(yes i know the "L" is for "LOCAL" :roll: :D :D ) I Promise i will NOT give up...not after all the $$ i have put into this Bird. :arggg: :arggg: (I am trying to give whoever is reading this a chuckel but at the same time letting ya know I need some Serious Help)
........Anyone getting into Heli`s i think needs sopme "Serious Help" :wink: :wink:
Anyways PLEASE any suggestions or Help you can give so i do not have to take a 3 HR drive through a Mountian pass in the dead of winter would be very Helpfull.

So to Sumerise

I am in NORM Mod and when i go to ZERO Stick i have NEG Pitch on the Blades. and LOTS of itNeg 10 to be exact. But when i go to Positive Pitch I get PLUS 5 @ MAX.....PLEASE HELP ME!!

Reghards
Mal

[Fastsc92]

i'd say your servo's are reversed. If not that, your pitch curve is set-up in a "V" pattern and it should be set linear. The swash should move up as the stick is increased upwards, and down and the stick is positioned downward.

Tell us more info concerning your radio and your model heli. This might help things. CCPM?? ect.

[moyesboy]

You swash is moving the right way but it is starting too far down and not going far enough up, right?

On your tx set the pitch curve to be 0,25,50,75,100 (assuming 5 points).
You can set the throttle curve to be 0,0,0,0,0 so the motor won't start for now, or you can use an rx pack and disconnect the ESC so the motor won't start.
(Motor starting on the bench=tears and blood)

Put the stick in the middle and adjust the sevo lonkeages to get zero degrees. the servo arms shudl all be mid travel and the mix arms shoudl all be level at this points.
This is the essential stating point.
Then you will have equal pitch up and down.
Then you set the normal to somethng like 45 - 100 so you only have a little bit of negative pitch to hold it on thre ground and stop it balooning in the wind.
Look in finless bobs tech room (on this site) at the HDX and Trex setup vids. Not the same model but setup principles are the same. IT's a bit different if you are ccpm or conventional collective mixing.

[Gizmo6035]

I would say it sounds like something simple to fix but more information on your equipment is needed before anyone can make accurate suggestions on what to adjust.
If you have high speed Internet the setup videos in Finless's forum are an excellent source of information.


I am in NORM Mod and when i go to ZERO Stick i have NEG Pitch on the Blades. and LOTS of it Neg 10 to be exact. But when i go to Positive Pitch I get PLUS 5 @ MAX.....PLEASE HELP ME!!


Something is way wrong here you should be at zero pitch at mid stick and your pitch curve should be a diagonal line from lower left to upper right with the center point centered between top and bottom, if you can set that up then you have a good starting point to work from

[Kushal_22]

I have been watching those vids for quite some time now. Thats whats so fustrating. he makes it look so simple
Here is what is in my Futaba 9Cthr-curve
(Norm)

Point1 0.0%
2> 25.00%
3>50.00%
4> 75.00%
5> 100.00%

Pit Curve
Point1>0.0%
2> 25.00%
3> 50.00%
4>75.00%
5> 100.00%

Ummm I cannot figure out how to get Idle1 for Throtle and Pitch curve to show up. I know I programed them in.

All Programing is as per Bob whites vids(Finless)

I know i can get this I just really need help. I have gone as far as i can bye myself.

I understand that with these Heli`s each Pilot MUST have a good understanding of his Bird becuase you are going to have to repair it over and over and over and over. So with that being said. lets see if "We" can figure out why my blades are doing what they are doing. Maybe i do not have my Block up high enough? Somehow i do not think so as the servos are going through all of there Travel.....i just don`t know :arggg: :arggg:

Regards
Mal
Futaba 9C Hitec HS55`sand a HS56 for the tail.

[fedex]

I have been watching those vids for quite some time now. Thats whats so fustrating. he makes it look so simple
Here is what is in my Futaba 9Cthr-curve
(Norm)

Point1 0.0%
2> 25.00%
3>50.00%
4> 75.00%
5> 100.00%

Pit Curve
Point1>0.0%
2> 25.00%
3> 50.00%
4>75.00%
5> 100.00%

Ummm I cannot figure out how to get Idle1 for Throtle and Pitch curve to show up. I know I programed them in.

All Programing is as per Bob whites vids(Finless)

I know i can get this I just really need help. I have gone as far as i can bye myself.

I understand that with these Heli`s each Pilot MUST have a good understanding of his Bird becuase you are going to have to repair it over and over and over and over. So with that being said. lets see if "We" can figure out why my blades are doing what they are doing. Maybe i do not have my Block up high enough? Somehow i do not think so as the servos are going through all of there Travel.....i just don`t know :arggg: :arggg:

Regards
Mal
Futaba 9C Hitec HS55`sand a HS56 for the tail.

yeah, sounds like you messed up somewhere in the mechanical setup of the heli, which is real important to get right.. mid stick 0 pitch all servos horns should be at 90 degrees. Make sure ur trims are set to 0 as well before setting up ur servos. Have all of them disconnected, then initialize them, disconnect power to them and all should be centered, then its just getting your servo horns on at 90 degrees, then making sure the linkage is adjusted enough to give you 0 degree pitch at midstick. You should have full throw both ways then, giving you the same amount of pitch in both directions. If its close you can just set your end points in the radio.
GL

[Gizmo6035]

Ummm I cannot figure out how to get Idle1 for Throtle and Pitch curve to show up. I know I programed them in.


I don't run Futaba radios so I am guessing here but if you can find any pitch settings somewhere on that screen it will tell you which mode you are adjusting Hold, Idle1, Idle2. On my radio if you select the mode you can scroll through them and select which one to adjust and access the individual curves from there, my radio indicates when you have selected that mode by underlining the title when it is active as selected by the appropriate toggle switch. I am sure someone with a Futaba will chime in on the radio adjustment specifics.

Can you post a pic of your heli without the canopy installed, powered up with all sticks and trims centered and sub trim s all zeroed? unplug the motor just to be safe all we need is to see where your neutral point is currently and what your pitch is at that point.

[Kushal_22]

Ummm I cannot figure out how to get Idle1 for Throtle and Pitch curve to show up. I know I programed them in.


I don't run Futaba radios so I am guessing here but if you can find any pitch settings somewhere on that screen it will tell you which mode you are adjusting Hold, Idle1, Idle2. On my radio if you select the mode you can scroll through them and select which one to adjust and access the individual curves from there, my radio indicates when you have selected that mode by underlining the title when it is active as selected by the appropriate toggle switch. I am sure someone with a Futaba will chime in on the radio adjustment specifics.

Can you post a pic of your heli without the canopy installed, powered up with all sticks and trims centered and sub trim s all zeroed? unplug the motor just to be safe all we need is to see where your neutral point is currently and what your pitch is at that point.

I think I should be able to do that.
Matt( AKA BIGSIX) Helped me get better Positive Pitch. But when i put the stick down below Half throttle my blades still go into Neg Pitch. I have to say that I would think this is going to be in the Programming of my Radio.
I hope these Photos show up. If Anyone can help me with the Pitch in Norm Mod Problem that would be WONDERFULL! I have had this Heli for Over a Month Now and Still have not gotten it into a Hover...I have not had it adjusted enough or right To even ATTEMPT one. I am ganno go insane with Anticipation :arggg: :arggg:

LOL
Regards
Malcom

[Kushal_22]

hmmmm I do not know where they other Two Photos went
lets see what I can do here.

[racerman27410]

.
Matt( AKA BIGSIX) Helped me get better Positive Pitch. But when i put the stick down below Half throttle my blades still go into Neg Pitch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its working right.

your blades should go to negative pitch anywhere below half stick regardless of what mode you are in.

hover should occur between mid and 3/4 stick (the throttle is the collective too) getting the pitch set to hover here will give your motor a chance to get the blades spooled up to proper flying RPMs (throttle curve needs to be adjusted to work with the pitch curve)

BUT the amount of negative pitch can easily be adjusted to any pitch you desire by adjusting the pitch curve in the transmitter. even to where you have zero pitch at the lowest stick position or maximum positive pitch at the lowest stick position.... its all in the programming.

if you have a five point curve just raise the first point up to where you have 2 or 3 degrees negative pitch at the lowest stick position (to help hold the heli on the ground and come down when flying in the wind) and adjust the number two point up so that it is a nice line (reducing negative pitch) to where you have zero pitch at half stick with points 4 and 5 increasing linear to finally full positive pitch at the top stick position.

remember anything below half stick is negative pitch anything above half stick positive pitch

not sure how your radio works but if you have a manual then i suggest reading the section on throttle and pitch curves or at least finding out how to access them in the radio menu.

the rest of it is cake.... take a deep breath its all good :-)


Frank

[Kushal_22]

.
Matt( AKA BIGSIX) Helped me get better Positive Pitch. But when i put the stick down below Half throttle my blades still go into Neg Pitch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its working right.

your blades should go to negative pitch anywhere below half stick regardless of what mode you are in.

hover should occur between mid and 3/4 stick (the throttle is the collective too) getting the pitch set to hover here will give your motor a chance to get the blades spooled up to proper flying RPMs (throttle curve needs to be adjusted to work with the pitch curve)

BUT the amount of negative pitch can easily be adjusted to any pitch you desire by adjusting the pitch curve in the transmitter. even to where you have zero pitch at the lowest stick position or maximum positive pitch at the lowest stick position.... its all in the programming.

if you have a five point curve just raise the first point up to where you have 2 or 3 degrees negative pitch at the lowest stick position (to help hold the heli on the ground and come down when flying in the wind) and adjust the number two point up so that it is a nice line (reducing negative pitch) to where you have zero pitch at half stick with points 4 and 5 increasing linear to finally full positive pitch at the top stick position.

remember anything below half stick is negative pitch anything above half stick positive pitch

not sure how your radio works but if you have a manual then i suggest reading the section on throttle and pitch curves or at least finding out how to access them in the radio menu.

the rest of it is cake.... take a deep breath its all good :-)


Frank

This Makes Sense Frank
Just to make sure....I go into the Pit curve in Norm Mod and Adjust Point 1,2 and Maybe 3? I do have the 5 point pitch curve. just thought the #4 and 5 is probbaly above the Half stick Mark.

Also want to ask you guy`s about REVO Mix. I read my Manual on it but it does not really explian what it is or does. I have heard some Mention that i do not want to use this in somer instances. ..I don`t know i am a noob...Sometimes i think a "Boob" but most times just a Noob :D

Thanks agian and I think i got what you were saying Frank

Regards
MAl

[bigsix]

MAl,
revo, or revolution mix, is a feature that can be used in conjunction with a non-heading-hold gyro only. what it does is compensate for for the tendency for the helicopter to yaw in either direction while climbing/descending. Sicne the torque created by the main rotor varies at different throttle/pitch position, it is necessary for the tail rotor blades to change pitch as well. Like I said this is a feature used ONLY with a non-heading hold gyro, and is best left alone or off if you are using a dual rate gyro, especially if you are using the heading-hold function of the gyro.
Matt

[racerman27410]

This Makes Sense Frank
Just to make sure....I go into the Pit curve in Norm Mod and Adjust Point 1,2 and Maybe 3? I do have the 5 point pitch curve. just thought the #4 and 5 is probbaly above the Half stick Mark.

Regards
MAl


MAI


position 3 on the pitch curve is exactly mid stick and should be setup so you have zero pitch at this point. i set mine up in normal mode so that when the stick is in the lowest position i have about 5 -6 degrees negative pitch... you may only want 2 or 3 degrees negative pitch there so you dont slam it into the ground when you chop the throttle ( it will happen believe me ) just bring the points up until you get the pitch you want.

on the throttle curve position three is half throttle
once you start flying the bird you may need to play with the throttle curve since depending on the motor/pinion you may need to increase throttle points up to get extra power/RPMs to drive the blades as the pitch increases (stick moves up)

example.... you have zero pitch at mid stick (position three on the pitch curve) and the throttle curve is standard on your radio at 50% at mid stick.

when you move the stick up above mid there might not be enough blade speed to lift the bird even though there is enough pitch.or it could lift the bird but you get bobbing up and down and mushy handling from the blades not spinning fast enough.

then you just go into the throttle curve on your transmitter and increase the throttle points from mid stick up ( points 3, 4 and 5)
increase motor speed a few points then fly and repeat until you can get a good hover about 3/4 stick (or close to it)

say again for example mid stick is 50% throttle but the bird wont lift off until you get above 3/4 stick which will equal 75% throttle- go into the throttle curve and increase point three (mid stick) to 75% and points 4 and 5 up to match.

just think of it like this... as you increase pitch you need to add more power.... reduce pitch and reduce power (normal mode)

once the blades are spinning fast enough the bird will fly as soon as you add enough pitch.
Are you getting this ? :glasses2:

it just seems to be real hard now but you seem to be a determined fellow so have confidence that you will get it all figured out..... and try not to think too much :mrgreen:

oh yeah and turn any revo mixing off if you are using a heading hold gyro..... you dont need it.

its all good ,

Frank

[Kushal_22]

Frank and Matt things are starting to "Click" Now let me see if i got this right.
I go into Pit curve and point 1 is set at Zero percent. I may want to make this25% and keep point 2 also at 25% correct?

For some reason the way you explian it makes perfect sense to me...While reading it.Then i have to go back and readit agian...And Agian...and agian :wink: I can tell you within a day or two you will hear i hoverd this Bird...And hopefully brought her down in one piece.

Regards
Mal

[Kushal_22]

HA HA!! I DID IT! I got my Blades and Pitch working Properly :D :D
THANK YOU ALL :!: I could not have done this without you. Geeze I have not even hoverd this thing yet and i feel on top of the world....Well Almost :wink:

Once I figured it out it was so simple :arggg: :arggg:
Once Frank explianed it the way he did everything "Clicked"
I will have to play with throttle curve some i think but I believe i am well on my way...Hopefully in the next day or two i can get a photo of me Hovering the Bird. BTW How Many of you saw "Daily Planet" on discouvery channel yesterday. TThey had a One Person Heli called the Mosquito and it is made by www.inovatortech.ca well worth a look see These could even be modifyd for people with no use of there legs. Just use the collective making it swing sideways each way.....uuuh maybe i should just stick to RC Heli`s for now :lol:

Anyways a intereasting site.
www.inovatortech.ca

[Kushal_22]

HA HA!! I DID IT! I got my Blades and Pitch working Properly :D :D
THANK YOU ALL :!: I could not have done this without you. Geeze I have not even hoverd this thing yet and i feel on top of the world....Well Almost :wink:

Once I figured it out it was so simple :arggg: :arggg:
Once Frank explianed it the way he did everything "Clicked"
I will have to play with throttle curve some i think but I believe i am well on my way...Hopefully in the next day or two i can get a photo of me Hovering the Bird. BTW How Many of you saw "Daily Planet" on discouvery channel yesterday. TThey had a One Person Heli called the Mosquito and it is made by www.i well worth a look see These could even be modifyd for people with no use of there legs. Just use the collective making it swing sideways each way.....uuuh maybe i should just stick to RC Heli`s for now :lol:

Anyways a intereasting site.
www.innovatortech.ca

[racerman27410]

Frank and Matt things are starting to "Click" Now let me see if i got this right.
I go into Pit curve and point 1 is set at Zero percent. I may want to make this25% and keep point 2 also at 25% correct?

Regards
Mal

For the pitch curve you just need to set point one to whatever pitch you want at those positions.

you will need a pitch gauge

say you want -3 degrees pitch at point one

put your pitch gauge on and adjust point 1 up in your transmitter until the blade pitch is physically at -3 degrees. you may have to bring it up 40% just keep an eye on the pitch gauge.. it will let you know when its time to stop adjusting.

for point 2 just split the difference between point one (wherever point one winds up w/ -3 degrees pitch) and point 3 (mid stick, 0 pitch)

so halfway beteen point one (-3 pitch) and point three ( 0 pitch) would make point 2 - 1.5 degrees negative pitch.

the reason for making a linear line between the points 1 and 3 is to keep the heli from dropping too fast/suddenly when you lower the stick.

you dont really need to use the pitch gauge for point two.... just split the difference in the transmitter and it will be right there.

Frank

[fedex]

I messaged Finless Bob with a similiar issue, he told me the pitch curve should stay the same 0 25 50 75 100. So I messed with my Swash settings (3 different channels, 1 of them works the collective.) and very importantly endpoint settings to get the ccpm interaction out of the sticks. (this part was the most tricky, be sure to watch the Finless ccpm setup trex videos) this fixed everything and gave me the desired pitch I wanted. If you can't get it right with the swash settings you should try adjusting the linkage again.

WATCH BOTH CCPM VIDEOS

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=12455

[racerman27410]

I messaged Finless Bob with a similiar issue, he told me the pitch curve should stay the same 0 25 50 75 100. So I messed with my Swash settings (3 different channels, 1 of them works the collective.) and very importantly endpoint settings to get the ccpm interaction out of the sticks. (this part was the most tricky, be sure to watch the Finless ccpm setup trex videos) this fixed everything and gave me the desired pitch I wanted. If you can't get it right with the swash settings you should try adjusting the linkage again.

WATCH BOTH CCPM VIDEOS

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=12455


that is the correct pitch curve for idle up but for a newbie having a full -10 at bottom stick is asking for trouble when the inevitable throttle chop happens....BTDT

personally I think a newbie should get some flight experience first using altered pitch curves and maybe even some expo... then go back to the 0 25 50 75 100 pitch setting and learn collective management.

just my .02 :mrgreen:

Frank

[Kushal_22]

ok found another Problem this time I know it is Mechanical.

When i spool the Heli up and when it is Just about to lif off. my gearwheel disengages from the Shaft and My Pinion AND gear wheel spin freely. (They are still both intermeshing)I Shut the motor down and the blades "Auto" until they are Just about Stopped then you the whell engages agian and the proccess repeats itself. Any Ideas as to whats going on there?

Regards
Mal

[Kushal_22]

I messaged Finless Bob with a similiar issue, he told me the pitch curve should stay the same 0 25 50 75 100. So I messed with my Swash settings (3 different channels, 1 of them works the collective.) and very importantly endpoint settings to get the ccpm interaction out of the sticks. (this part was the most tricky, be sure to watch the Finless ccpm setup trex videos) this fixed everything and gave me the desired pitch I wanted. If you can't get it right with the swash settings you should try adjusting the linkage again.

WATCH BOTH CCPM VIDEOS

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=12455

I have watched these over and Over. They have Helped me Alot.

Thanks
Mal

[racerman27410]

ok found another Problem this time I know it is Mechanical.

When i spool the Heli up and when it is Just about to lif off. my gearwheel disengages from the Shaft and My Pinion AND gear wheel spin freely. (They are still both intermeshing)I Shut the motor down and the blades "Auto" until they are Just about Stopped then you the whell engages agian and the proccess repeats itself. Any Ideas as to whats going on there?

Regards
Mal


which way are the blades spinning? they should be spinning clockwise.

if they are not then swap any two leads from the ESC to the motor... this will reverse the direction of the motor.

if they are spinning the correct way then make sure the bolt going thru the drive gear and main shaft is in place.

is this a new heli?

Frank

[Kushal_22]

Frank

it is a second hand Heli
The Prevoius owner did do a few Upgrades and a did a whole bunch more.
I put in a Align 430L and 40AMP ESC

a CCPM Upgrade Kit
401 Gyro
6 channel PCM RX

Extra Blades
Extra Align Gyro
crash Kit
Booms/Blades
Spindles Feathering shafts Tail Blades and on and on.

I have from www.helidirect.com a few other things like a Align Bolt kit(For all the screws that are in the frame) I hate "Star" Screws I would much rather have Allen bolts.

I am trying to make this heli as easy to work on as Possible and as Smoooth running as Possible. right now when i spool it up it does not sound very smooth. right now you always hear that "chtch chtch" sound
Right now i am about to send it back to the LHS to get it running right. I Have put wayy to much time...then Money into this to give up now...That just ain`t gonna happen this thing is not going to Beat me. But i am starting to get Pissed.

Any Ideas why this gearwheel disengages?

Regards
Mal

[racerman27410]

Frank

it is a second hand Heli
Any Ideas why this gearwheel disengages?

Regards
Mal



Mal,


which way are the main blades spinning?

it could be the one way bearing has failed (the bearing is between the upper and lower main gear.)


Frank

[Gizmo6035]

Check that the set screw that holds the pinion to the motor shaft is tight also.
It is possible for the pinion to slip even if the set screw is tight if this is happening you can ever so carefully use loctite or carefully grind a small flat in the motor shaft for the set screw to engage.