Thos whos CC ESC went in flames Please respond.

[f22warzone]

Hi,
For those whose cc esc's went in flames I would like to take a really quick pole on a possible reason as to why they went up in flames.

Many people say they go up either on the bench or the first 10 seconds.
In this, thread http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=281353&page=4
We discuss the possible problem of "excessive" battery extensions, causing too much ripple current. This would possible explain why some go up early in their life.

I am not saying this is the reason for every single one ( as there are service advisors for a reason) but It could be a problem with some.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1203522 cc link for cap adding
"
12" between where the wires solder on the ESC, and where they solder on the battery tabs on the pack. Anything over that and you want to add capacitors. Rule of thumb is for every ~4" over that you should add one extra cap that's the same voltage and capacitance rating that is on the controller.
As close to the where the battery leads solder on the ESC as possible. There are two leads coming off the cap, one side of the cap is marked with a - sign. Poke a hole in the battery input wire, insert the cap lead and then wick solder into it. Do the same for the + side.

I got this great and specific Info from Joe @ Castle Creations Tech Support

Thanks Joe
"


also just wondering but what size and how many caps are on the cc hv 120?

Just took a measurement from my batteries and my leads are 14cm so 14x4 ( + & - on 2x batteries ) would give 56cm of wire before the esc This is 22" so I am all ready almost double of what the esc recommends with just the stock wiring, good thing I have caps

Also please count in the length of your Y harness as part of the lead extension.

also go with the choice that is closest to your length,

pole revisions.
should be 24" instead of 24

[c54fun]

I had a CC 80hv shoot out flames on first spool up a couple of weeks ago. I just measured my wires and I am 4 inches over. I have 16 inches total. My understanding is to watch your ripple. 7 volts of ripple at 50.4 V will easily put you past the "53 - 54 volts" absolute voltage ratings. My ripple max on the last flight was 2.04.

Acording to Castle I need to add one cap?

I am using the 120hv now. Works fine but may add one more cap just to play it safe.

My esc has 330uf 50v caps but not sure on brand name. Not sure where or witch one to get as there are so many kinds of them.

[Evan D]

A couple questions about your poll.

The wire legnths do you want over all distance or total wire legnth? In other words if the two ESC and battery wires are 8" long is that the number or are you multiplying it by two so it's 16"? It appears you are doing the multiplying but I think the 12" reference number we've all used was not multiplied???

Do you want people that have not had "flames" to post in the bottom choices?

[f22warzone]

You know that poses a good question on if we need to multiply by 2 or not.

"
12" between where the wires solder on the ESC, and where they solder on the battery tabs on the pack. Anything over that and you want to add capacitors.
"

It seems that you would count the distance from the esc to batteries but then you would be missing the battery to battery connection and that right their is 1/2 the length of the total loop, would be nice if they were a bit more clear.
It may be possible that the series connection was over looked by CC? and is causing to high of a ripple current as the controllers only have 1/2 the caps they need?

so for now lets just go with the total battery loop not including the esc wires
so 4 leads x their length

and if people whose esc hasn't gone up in flames to chose the bottom choices that would give us some compression.

[Evan D]

Cool, I am at 22-23" and no extra caps, no flames, or bad ESC...

[HSC]

Anybodey have a photo of exsta caps- how big they are, how they are hooked to controler?

Where are exsta caps located on your heli ?

[Shef]

I haven't measured the total wire length but my total wire length is probably greater than 22" if we assume 6" for each pos and neg wire plus an extra 6" for my extension. It's all 8ga wire.

Here's how I wire mine up:
http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=5000&pictureid=39561

[f22warzone]

interesting ........ just wondering but how many caps does the hv 120 have?
as the 160 has 4..... 2 on the back and 2 inside near the motor wires.

[ping]

I seem to remember the HV160 had slightly longer wires stock.

[mfbs17]

interesting ........ just wondering but how many caps does the hv 120 have?
as the 160 has 4..... 2 on the back and 2 inside near the motor wires.
Do you by any chance know the size of the caps on 160hv?
I think they are 50v 70UF.am I correct?

[f22warzone]

470uF 50v.......... Wonder why they went 50v..... 12s at 4.2v per cell is 50.4.... see no reason to run the caps at their max.... maybe time to switch them out.

[mfbs17]

470uF 50v.......... Wonder why they went 50v..... 12s at 4.2v per cell is 50.4.... see no reason to run the caps at their max.... maybe time to switch them out.
I wonder if I can use one of the yge caps serie such as this one.
http://www.yge.de/artikel.php?search=ygecaps9

"This module is usefull upgrade for controller by other manufacturers to 15s".

[TT]

...

[f22warzone]

Interesting results we have here. seems to be no correlation between fires and wire length.... but none the less its still good idea to add caps.

[MrMel]

My guess on this is that you have multiple factors

wirelength damage the ESC on long term, not short time.
Motor type and its "quality" affects, bad timing create spikes.
Then you add which packs, if you have very low IR in the packs like TP those bad timing/motor issues causing extreme peaks since packs say Sir Yes Sir at any change.
With that you can get more ripple on Caps too.
Then, one big factor is connectors on the motor, one bad is a big risk for fire in the ESC.

Last you have quality of components and design.

So, there is so many possibilities out there that this poll wont cover it.
How do i know? Just take a ESC like the jive and see what trigger 8 blink shutdown, thats when other escs have a high chance to burn.

[f22warzone]

Very interesting post, lot of stuff to take into consideration. So you seem to think its more of a user error on the set up and programing?

would make sense in how they are tested before they are shipped out, Oh well at least called to the attention of the use of long battery extension leads as seen in some pictures.

[MrMel]

Not really user errors, just that motors are designed differently, some are also very far apart even if same make and model.
For sample all Align motors require a special mode on Jives else it will shutdown, on a CC it does not, what are the impacts of that? Can only guess, but i see vast differences when people run vbar gov when they run castle in airplane mode where you see issues with motors more clearly since the motor start to stutter.

[Mystic3D]

Not really user errors, just that motors are designed differently, some are also very far apart even if same make and model.
For sample all Align motors require a special mode on Jives else it will shutdown, on a CC it does not, what are the impacts of that? Can only guess, but i see vast differences when people run vbar gov when they run castle in airplane mode where you see issues with motors more clearly since the motor start to stutter.

It is just the original 700M mode that requires KSA(Mode 10) on the Jive. The newer Aign 700MX Series can be run in Mode 4 or 11 no problem. 700MX is not a bad motor at all.

[MrMel]

It is just the original 700M mode that requires KSA(Mode 10) on the Jive. The newer Aign 700MX Series can be run in Mode 4 or 11 no problem. 700MX is not a bad motor at all.

Not talking about bad, talking about different, MX motors stutters with standard settings on a castle in airplane mode, while a xera and others does not, that type of different.
I cant say exact what impact it has since i cannot run a scope inflight, but it sure do something.

[Diesel]

Personally, I appreciate F22 doing this pole. I am interested to see the results. I have done some research and have been communicating with CC via e mail. The "caps" that come stock with the ICE120HV are a Panasonic brand (the "M" symbol stands for Matsushita=sister company of Panasonic)FM series capacitors. These are highly recommended/high quality capacitors.The Panasonic part# for a direct replacement is EEUFM1H331L. In talking with Castle they recommend adding a 5000uf capacitor for each additional foot of wiring, or 2500uf for additional 6 inches. Stay away from "Chinese" made capacitors. Japanese manufactured capacitors are far superior in quality and longevity. To make a long story short and save you guys TONS of research time just get 2 of these and you will be good to go(as long as you dont have more than 6 in. of additional wire):
http://cgi.ebay.com/4pcs-Panasonic-FC-1500uf-50v-105C-Radial-Capacitor-NEW-/120618908661?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c15727bf5

or if you want additional uf:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2pcs-Panasonic-FC-2200uf-50v-105C-Radial-Capacitor-NEW-/120658544585?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c17cf47c9

And look-you dont have to get them from overseas!!! What a treat!!
Hey, if ANYBODY can find a higher uf FM series (not FC series) capacitor please PM me!!! FC series is still an awesome capacitor.
Oh, and here is a pic on one way to do it(you get the idea)http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab186/hismjst/Caps.jpg
Hope that helped out.

[f22warzone]

thos are huge caps compared the the ones the hv 160 has, it has 4x 470uf caps

I only have 3x : ) but am fixing to add 6x more of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110656595777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

they have a good name for caps and supposed long life with high ripple currents..... looks like what an esc needs.

also if your replacing your caps you might as well bump it up to 63v so your not pushing the 50v limit of the original caps.

good info about the extra needs

[Diesel]

thos are huge caps compared the the ones the hv 160 has, it has 4x 470uf caps

I only have 3x : ) but am fixing to add 6x more of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110656595777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

they have a good name for caps and supposed long life with high ripple currents..... looks like what an esc needs.

also if your replacing your caps you might as well bump it up to 63v so your not pushing the 50v limit of the original caps.

good info about the extra needs
6 more!?! Bwahahah,you're my kinda guyhttp://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab186/hismjst/Zork-Metal-Smiley.gif!! Oh, and Ruby's to boot=NICE!! I would go with the Rubycon MBZ series and or RX30(YGE LOVES these caps) series though (although I dont think they make the MBZ in anything lower than 10V). The YXG series just meets the minimum requirements (general purpose) for a low esr cap. Still, I would be very interested to see your CC logs after the addition. Check these out- lower uF but a bit tougher than the Ruby's you're looking at
http://cgi.ebay.com/10x-Panasonic-FC-63V-820uF-Electrolytic-Capacitors-/190447240216?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c578a4418
Oh, and in state to boot!

[f22warzone]

if you had only posted that a day earlier, i would have gotten thos

lol I am removing my 2 giant ones, as it made it hard to fit the canopy over and had a minor problem of them pulling off one of the cap pads.
besides the 2 big ones were only 800uf but at 200v : )

as for the rx30 caps, I could not find them so I just went with the xyg, should still promote long life and good ripple protection, will be interesting to see the results to as the wire on the new 5Ah 45-90c nano tecs is only 10 gauge so i figured i would up the caps while I was upgrading every thing else, now just to find a place to put these : )

[Diesel]

That is just not fair!! How are you getting your hands on the 45-90 Nano's?!?!?! I have been waiting for 4 months and still not in stockhttp://www.emoticonsfree.org/wp-content/uploads/mad0228.gif (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/page/6)!! Arrrgh!! Hold on to those girls-they are hard to get! You have probably already seen these, but here it is just in case you didn't. 63V 1000uF caps!! 5000uF total!!!Bwahahaha!
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-e041&cat=136
http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab186/hismjst/cap-bank-hv.jpg

[f22warzone]

lol I back ordered 800$ worth of batteries and 3010b charger think I only had to wait a 2 months or so.