New Razor specs [Archive]

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r2160

02-10-2007, 05:37 PM

Hi All

I have finally put together a razor package.

Here it is:
Neu 1912/1.5YF
CC85HV
TP 10S 3850
9.6 to 1

What do you guys think? I am a new guy to electrics so any feedback would be appreciated.
Compared to the 1515/2Y the specs are very similar except it is a 540kv motor instead of 1100kv.

Glenn

Aussieheliguy

02-11-2007, 07:43 AM

Hey Glenn how come you haven't added the Razor to your signature yet, Dude

Big Fella

r2160

02-11-2007, 03:48 PM

Hey bernie

Its not finished yet!

Hopefully, I will get the airframe finished this week and the batteries should arrive the end of this week or early next week.

Glenni

TomC

02-11-2007, 05:03 PM

Glenn,

Looks like a pretty soft setup to me. Your 540 kv Neu is only going to be spinning at ~20,000 rpm on 10s. Neu motors seem to work better at 35-40,000 rpm. I'd re-think your motor selection if I were you and go to one of the MA recommended setups.

Cheers,

Tom C

Huthy

02-12-2007, 01:22 AM

Hey Tom,

MA have a recommended package using a Hacker A50-16S which is only a 378KV Motor, and another package with an Actro 24-4 which is a 570KV.

I think with the huge range of gearing MA have made available for the Razor, the 540KV of this Neu should work OK.

That said, I am also new to this ELectric thing, so I may have missed the point completely.

Regards,

Chris

TomC

02-12-2007, 04:52 AM

Chris,

Sorry, I should have explained things a bit more clearly.

First of all, the low KV motors that MA is recommending are outrunners. In general, large, low kv (~400-600 kv) outrunner motors like to operate at @ ~20-22,000 rpm. The very low kv (the specs I've seen list it at 490 kv, not 378 kv as you say) A50-16S is mainly aimed at guys who want to go 11s, or want a softer 10s setup. The more common one for 10s is the A50-14S (kv 550) or the Actro 24-4 which have similar kv's.

Inrunner motors like the Neu 1515/2y (1100kv) like to operate at ~ +40,000 rpm (rated at 60,000 max). Also, inrunner motors tend to be ~5% more efficient than outrunners and tend to run cooler. The Hacker outrunners are reported to run pretty hot, even in lighter Trex600 helis.

The Neu 1912/1.5 ORK (532 kv outrunner killer) is sort of in-between motor. The max rpm for this motor is 30,000 kv, so it will probably give the best performance at ~25,000 rpm, which means that it probably would work best with a 11-12s setup. It probably will work with a 10s setup but the power will be a bit soft. These motors have not been out long and there is not a lot of field data out there on them. My guess is that this motor will run pretty hot (ie lower efficiency) and will probably start to bog as it heats up. The 1912/1.5 is about $US70 cheaper than the 1515/2y, so I think you get what you pay for.

For the average flyer the Kontroniks 45/08 (800kv) is the best motor imop. This motor works best at 25-30,000 rpm and is perfect for 8-10s setups. Clint has hundreds of 10s razor flights with this motor and it has been trouble-free. I just put one on my 10s Trex600 last week and am very impressed with it. Lots of power, runs very cool, and I'm getting ~+1 min runtimes. Probably not as much power as the 1515/2y (or as I was getting with my 1100kv hacker c50/15xl, before it flamed-out), but still lots for the average flyer.

Anyway, hope this explains things a bit more clearly. I look forward to seeing your new razor soon!

Cheers,

Tom C

Huthy

02-12-2007, 06:49 AM

Tom,

Where did you get the Tango 45-08 from?

Thanks, Chris.

TomC

02-12-2007, 07:07 AM

Chris,

Got it from Tower Hobbies, with one of their usual $30 off deals (current discount code is 010P1). So cost me $US269 - 30 = $239 plus shipping ($15-45, depending how fast you want it). Also I saved the $9 handling charge since I'm a frequent buying club member.

Cheers,

Tom C

Huthy

02-12-2007, 07:28 AM

WillJames

02-12-2007, 07:31 AM

I think Esprit Model or FX AeroMldels has the 08 in stock.

I am very impressed with the performance of my new Razor with the 08 in it. Nice. Best thing about it is it is a responsible setup and packs will last for hundreds of flights, Clints 08 has over 1200 flights on it and he is getting over 300 cycles out of his EVO packs with this setup. All you have to do is use your timer and you are in for years of fun with this machine.

Huthy

02-12-2007, 07:35 AM

Thanks Will.

Are you using 14.25:1 and 10S?

Regards,

Chris.

WillJames

02-12-2007, 07:39 AM

Yes I am, I am using the CC HV-85 and GOV mode to around 1800 headspeed and it pulls like a freight train, ask HC and Clint when we maidened the machine. WOW.

Hope to get some flights on it today in preparation for Port Charlotte Event.

r2160

02-12-2007, 07:47 AM

hey will, do you have any videos of this?

glenn

Huthy

02-12-2007, 07:47 AM

OK, cool. Already have the CC HV-85, so that's all good. Am looking on the Esprit Models site as we speak... hopefully things will get to Australia nice and fast, cause I can't wait....

Turbo Dave

02-12-2007, 08:53 AM

You say it goes like a freight train at 1800 HS, I thought it was all 2000+ these days, do you run longer blades or something like that on yours?

Cheers Dave

TomC

02-12-2007, 02:51 PM

How do we reckon a 45-10 would go... since the 45-08s are out of stock.... 1000kv instead of 800kv? Have to adjust the gearing obviously.

And Glenn... it appears that I have hijacked your thread.... sorry mate.

Good, you've gone with the 45/08 from Espirit. I've ordered from them recently and I got it delivered within 5 days.

I think that the standard MA gearing for the 45/08 is ~14.5 :1. I've heard some other guys (who like higher hs's) use 13.5 :1. I'd probably start with the MA recommended gearing and get a couple of pullies to try ~ 14:1 and 13.5:1 later and see what you like best.

Also, to start off with I'd run your hv85 with fixed heli endpoints and throttle curves. This will let you get to know what hs's your heli is going to be happy with if you want to go to gov mode later. Also, you'll probably find that you will need to adjust your throttle atv's to match the esc's. In my case I have had to adjust my Throttle to -112%, +94%. After that, the % throttle curves line up very well.

Chris, when you get ready to fire things up, feel free to give me a call and we can get together to check it out.

Cheers mate,

Tom C

r2160

02-13-2007, 07:04 AM

WillJames

02-13-2007, 08:09 AM

Correction we had my tach at the field, at about 1950 is where I am. Personally I don't want or need the ballistic headspeeds, I like my packs and motor/esc to last a while, and I also like to fly for more than 4 minutes.

Be very careful with that NEU setup, or you will go through a lot of packs and other electronics.

r2160

02-13-2007, 08:12 AM

Thanks Will

I hear you. I am a newby to electrics, and i gather that the neu has a heap of horsepower.

Do you have any suggestiosn regarding setup of this beastie?

thanks
Glenn

TomC

02-13-2007, 10:04 AM

Hi All

Had a chat to Tim at MA yesterday (he was as helpful as every, thanks Tim). He said that they tested the 1912/1.5Y and it actually overheated in the razor. He felt it was a good motor for the ion but a little too much for the razor.

So to that end, I am aiming for the 1515/2Y as MA suggested in the first place (funny how we end up there isnt it LOL). The dealer here doesnt have the finned version but he has offered to let me try it to see how it goes, and is also willing just to replace it if it doesnt perform as we hope.

I will let you all know how it goes shortly (hopefully only a week away)

Glenn

Glenn,

First of all, I'm glad you did not go with the 1912/1.5Y. I don't know why MA would even think that this would be ok for the Ion-x. Also, I don't think it's a very good idea to go with a non-finned 1515/2y. These motors run pretty hot, even in finned versions. As a newbie to electric's, I'd recommend you to go with a Tango 4508 and 14-14.5 ratio on 10s.

Cheers,

Tom C

WillJames

02-13-2007, 03:16 PM

I'm with Tom. Skip the NEU, my 45-08 is powerful and is easy on the packs and electronics if I watch my timer and still pulls +-14 degrees no problem. That is how I know my Liogictech gyro is working good, the tail stays put like glue even running all that pitch!! WOW!!

Huthy

02-13-2007, 05:14 PM

I am very impressed with the performance of my new Razor with the 08 in it. Nice. Best thing about it is it is a responsible setup and packs will last for hundreds of flights, Clints 08 has over 1200 flights on it and he is getting over 300 cycles out of his EVO packs with this setup. All you have to do is use your timer and you are in for years of fun with this machine.

Will,

Are you using the EVO 3700's? If not, which packs are you using, and what flight time are you getting? 1950 hs on 14.25:1 sounds good too....

Thanks,

Chris

TomC

02-13-2007, 05:24 PM

Chris,

Still trying to steal Glenn's thread eh? Just kidding, I'm pretty sure that Will is using 3700 Evo20's (he is a flightpower dealer/rep). Where did you buy your TP's from and why did you go to them instead of FP's?

Cheers,

Tom C

Aussieheliguy

02-13-2007, 07:42 PM

Tom

I use TP's and I have tried FP's...TP's rock IMO...Glenn is stocking TP's now...

Bernie

Huthy

02-13-2007, 08:08 PM

I knew Will would be using Flightpower, it was more of a question on the capacity, and his flight times.

As Bernie said, Glenn is now supplying TP packs.

To further hijack Glenni's thread.....

What connectors are being used by the masses. I know Tom doesn't like Deans Ultra plugs as they are not rated high enough, but MA use them in the build manual... so what are people using. This is mainly ESC to Battery that I am interested in. That said, it would also be good to know what connectors people are using ESC to Motor.

Thanks, Chris.