View Full Version : Bergen Gasser EB
mister2u
02-13-2007, 02:47 PM
I am new to the heli scene and had a couple of questions for someone. First off, I have spent an enourmous amount of time on the G3 Sim so that I can get comfortable utilizing the various stick positions regarding heli orientation. I know that this is by no way comparable to the real thing, however. I have been doing a bit of research on gas helis as this is the type that I would like to learn on. I know that I may be going overboard with trying to learn on such a machine, but I'm ready for and more than willing to take on the project. I have read alot about various machines and have concluded that I will be more happier with the BG-EB. I will be ordering one within the next month. Would someone mind schooling me on a quality radio and as well as the servos and governor that would compliment this machine? Also, feel free to make any other suggestions that you feel would benefit me regarding my choice. Thanks.
BJ
lperagallo
02-13-2007, 07:35 PM
I have a an Intrepid EB and run a Futaba 401/9254 gyro, 9450 servos and a DX7 with a GV-1 governor.
MarkWebber
02-13-2007, 08:11 PM
Great choice of heli. Love mine. What are you intending to do with this heli? That'll help in your choice of electronics. I'm using a 9CHP, 401/9254 and 9252's on everything but the throttle. A standard servo is ok for throttle. Unless things have changed, I was told to pass on governors on a gasser. Apperantly they can mask problems in tuning. My EB's been doing just fine without one. :D
Best suggeston...if you can find a gasser pilot to help with setup it will help alot. A Bergen pilot would be even better.
Greg Alderman
02-13-2007, 08:26 PM
You can run 9252's for the 2 cyclics servos, but I would run something a little stronger for the collective servo...maybe something like a 9351 (153 oz-in @ 4.8v)...
I am running the 9351 for everything on all my Bergens, including the Turbine...I run them at 6v for the extra power and speed (192 oz-in @ .13 sec)...
another good choice would be the JR 8611's...monsters at 300 oz-in...
I am sure there are a lot of people running straight 9252's for cyclic and collective servos with no problems at all...I just really like the stronger servo's for the collective...
401 gyro is a good choice as long as you use the 9254 servo...
GV-1 and the "Stator-Gator" is a great choice for the governor...after you get the motor tuned and broken in.
Hope this helps a little! Feel free to PM if you have any questions on anything!
Cheers!
rbort
02-13-2007, 09:09 PM
If I may suggest, you might want to invest in a Jewel on-board generator from the start. Since you are a beginner and will be spending many hours with the machine learning to hover and fly, the last thing you would want to worry about is on-board batteries and them dying on you in flight and causing a disaster. You can pair this unit up with a standard receiver battery that you will get with your radio system and enjoy unlimited flight times at the field. Chris now makes mounts for these units that I stock as well. Take a look at my homepage for more details and pm me if you have any questions!
-=>Raja.
cbergen
02-13-2007, 09:40 PM
For your level of flying, either the JR 9303 or the Futaba 9CHP will work for you for a long time. Couple that with good high quality servos such as the Futaba 9252's or JR 8311's will give you a confident feel in the machine.
The 401 setup works quite well, as does Raja's excellent generator system.
I suggest leaving the governor off for a while, spend your money on the better servos instead.
Get Gary's tuning video, http://garytravisrc.com/
Since you're on G3, grab the Expansion Pak 1, and start flying the Intrepid Gasser EB for a very close feel to MY helicopter!! :D
mister2u
02-13-2007, 09:55 PM
Cool!!! Now that's what I'm talkin bout! From the responses, I see that there are several avenues to approach. That's a good thing. I've never even heard of an on-board generator. Gonna for sure check out your page 'rbort' and get some more info on that. When I get my BG-EB, I will be sure to take ongoing pics to show my progression. PM's will be in order for you guys also. As far as my intentions with this machine, I'm not concerned with 3D (at the moment). I just want to get a fine machine to learn on and become proficient with. Everything else, I'm sure, will soon follow in time.
BJ
mister2u
02-13-2007, 10:14 PM
Hey Chris, how ya doin? I have heard and read alot of great things about you and your Bergen Helis as well as the great support given from your company. I've got the Expansion Pak 1 and have been flying the Intrepid Gasser EB for a minute now. Ordered Gary's DVD yesterday. I've chosen this mission and am ready to accept it! :mrgreen:
mister2u
02-13-2007, 10:33 PM
Hey fellas, I've got one question (hope it doesn't sound to elementary). From what I have been reading, the governor is a piece that many have sworn by. Is it due to the characteristics of the gasser heli that one would not be needed right off? Without one, initially, would it make my learning curve go a bit smoother? And, after getting orientated and comfortable with my gasser, how would I know when it was time for me to install a governor? :dontknow
Greg Alderman
02-13-2007, 10:44 PM
when it was time for me to install a governor?
maybe never...you might find out that you have your Throttle/ Pitch curves tweaked to where you don't ever find the need for one...:D
Without one, initially, would it make my learning curve go a bit smoother?
Not really...in fact in might inhibit your progress a little bit...as Mark mentioned...a governor can mask a mis-tuned engine...causing you to be chasing your tail as to why things aren't working like they should...
mister2u
02-14-2007, 12:01 AM
Mark, didn't mean to overlook your point! Thanks Greg. I'm just excited and ready to get in the sky. I'm looking forward to posting my pics and asking more questions as they arise from everyone. :glasses2:
MarkWebber
02-14-2007, 07:05 AM
And, as you see, there's plenty of help here when you have those questions. :D
And, if I'm lucky, I'll need to upgrade that collective servo from the 9252 because I'm flying more like Greg :wink:
Brady Longmore
02-14-2007, 03:42 PM
My EB flys superb without a governor. By the way, it is my first heli too. Yep, I actually learned (taught myself) on the Big beast. So, don't be afraid of it. It's a gentle giant if you have it set up right. That's the key. The only guy I know with a governor on his EB is doing 3D. I don't know if the 3D is the reason he has a governor though. :dontknow
Good luck.
PS: I have a JR 9303 also, and it's been a great radio for me. It's not hard to figure out how to program and stuff.
If you're recommending a gasser for a first heli, I'll just bite my tongue at this point. Unless, of course, you have Gary Travis available to set up your throttle curves for you and heli in general. Unfortunately, most of us do not have that luxury. While Bergen is an excellent machine, I certainly would not recommend it to someone just starting out in the hobby.
Brady Longmore
02-14-2007, 06:27 PM
I will agree with you Bobs that having an experienced Heli guy around is a great and pretty much indispensable luxury when getting your first heli. That applies regardless of what heli you are buying. Anyone first getting into the hobby should always check with their local club or whatever and see if they can get in touch with someone who can offer advice and help on the build and the set up.
Now to play devil's advocate a little. What is it about a Bergen EB that would make it so hard to set up for a newbie, vs a Raptor or something? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, as I really wouldn't know. But, it would seem to me that there's nothing magic or mystical about the Bergen that would make it such a special case.
In the end a heli is a heli isn't it? You have to set pitch and throttle curves on a Raptor as well as a Bergen right? Which most noobs are going to need some help with no mattter what heli they have. Is it the fact it's a gasser? I don't know. Personally I like just pulling the cord and being on my way without messing around with the hassle of glow plugs, ignitors, and the cost of the fuel. Maybe the gas engine makes tuning more difficult, but I doubt it. I have owned nitro airplanes, and RC cars, and tuning is still a pain in the neck. I could be wrong though.
The one thing where I see your point very clearly is; as a noob, I'd much rather cover the costs of a Raptor crash than a Bergen EB crash. :mrgreen:
As a relative noob myself, I certainly am in a position here to be corrected by more experienced people here. But, that's just how I've always looked at it.
Brady, as far as throttle and pitch curves, you're right, all helis need these to be set up properly; however, the cost of repair is a big consideration, not to mention the complexity of the repair. Besides my Bergen, I have also built three Raptors. The Raptors are by far easier to repair than the Bergen. For instance, try removing your Bergen motor compared to a Raptor. How about the tail boom on the Bergen compared to a Raptor? Then there's the cost, and I think you know where I'm coming from on that point. As far as flying, I think the Raptor 50s are a better choice for a beginner. The Bergen is more responsive and will get you in trouble a little quicker. On the plus side, they are larger and once set up properly are a joy to fly. However, I still don't think it's a good choice for a first heli. Yes, it can be done, you're proof of that, but I dare say you are in a minority. I guess if a person has deep pockets and doesn't mind the time involved to make repairs, more power to you. Another point is the availability of parts. Raptor parts are available virtually everywhere. All in all I just feel that a Bergen gasser is a poor choice for a newbie.
Brady Longmore
02-14-2007, 08:01 PM
Bobs you made yourself clear with some good points. Thanks.
I guess it depends too on what direction you are heading in. If you are going into it strictly as a hobbie, and plan to gradually advance up in machines as your skill improves, then I have to probably agree with your points.
In my case, I was in it strictly for the AP from the beginning. In fact, if it wasn't for AP I probably would have been content with my Traxxas T-Max. (that's an RC monster truck) :D I definatley don't have deep pockets, and I felt I was actually saving money by going ahead and getting the very heli I would be flying for my future business, and learning on it, rather than having to purchase two seperate choppers in the end.
I was actually given that advice by Gary Travis the first time I spoke with him, and told him of my plans and desires for the future. Of course it made it an easy decision knowing Gary was only four hours away, and could be there to help me set it up and stuff. :glasses2:
As far as parts availabiltiy goes, Bergen is only a phone call away, and I've never waited more than 3 days for my parts. Which is fine for me, since there is no hobby shop where I live anyway. So even if I owned a Raptor I'd still be sending away for the parts.
lperagallo
02-14-2007, 08:32 PM
I must say I was a bit surprised with some of the responses here. No recommendations for the DX7 other then mine? A nice, inexpensive, fast, glitch free radio. I miss spoke when I said I was using 9450s. I am really using 9250s. I have found them better then the 9252s as I have always stripped gear sets when a crash occurs, while the 9250s survive fine. I have not noticed any slop in the metal gears.
I agree with getting Garys set up video. I seem to go back to it anytime something doesn't feel right.
I don't think there's any difference in machines when it's your first. You will get used to whatever you first fly. I have both the Bergen and a Raptor 50 and both will cause a great pucker at times. I haven't found the Bergen harder to fix then the Raptor, but I will agree the Bergen can cost more. The Bergen will give you much better hover stability and help during the learning process when the wind picks up. Plus you can't beat just giving a coupe of pulls on a rope and flying. With a DX7 no worry about shooting anyone down or getting shot down :mrgreen:
Why didn't you mention that in the first place. I agree 100%, you made the right decision with Bergen. Now you're at the top of the minority group. :D Thanks for clearing that up for me. You must have nerves of steel being a new pilot, flying a Bergen, and carrying camera equipment to boot. My hat's off to you. Happy flying.
Brady Longmore
02-15-2007, 12:36 AM
I don't have nerves of steel, just a lot of patience. I have tried to force myself into a very slow learning curve. I never try to push the envelope. Honestly, I have thought of getting a little E-Raptor or T-Rex as something I can just plug in, and go hover around in the back yard for a few minutes of fun and practice, and can push my skills a little bit without the thought of thousands of dollars on the line. :shock:
Patience, that's even better than nerves of steel. As for the T-rex idea, I built one right after they first came out. Compared to my Bergen, or even the Raptors, it's a handful to fly. And for what you get (size wise), they are expensive. I've heard the little Blade CX is great for practicing in the house and they are under $200.00. I'd actually really like to build a 620 E-Raptor or 600 T-rex but when you price one out, OUCH. Might just as well invest in another gasser. Good luck on the AP work.
mister2u
02-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Wow! A whole lot of advice that I can really use. Thanks everyone for your input! I have one more question (for now anyway), however. I have looked at a few radios and have just read up on the DX7(I can see its advantages). How do the different channel (7,8, & 9) radios compare with one another? What would be the maximum number of channels needed for a gasser heli and why?
MarkWebber
02-15-2007, 01:16 PM
Ail, Elev, Collective, throttle, t/r and gyro gain...so six.
mister2u
02-15-2007, 01:30 PM
Six, huh? Cool! Thanks Mark.
rbort
02-15-2007, 08:13 PM
6 is MINIMUM!! You could certainly use 8 as well. If it was me I'd say don't buy a radio that is less then 8 channel , maybe even 9 will be better but at least 8. In my case on my helis:
throttle
aileron
elevator
rudder
gv-1 on/off
collective
gyro rate and heading hold/normal switch
rpm speed for gv-1
generator power (on 9th channel on RX).
So when you say 6, you have to inhibit some functions. Like maybe you don't need to switch the gyro between heading hold and normal, or maybe you don't need to turn on/off the gv-1 via a switch. But these things add functionality and convenience, so buy more than you need as there is nothing worse than realizing you don't have enough channels.
My first heli radio was a 6 channel. Guess what. It flies my airplane now.
-=>Raja.