Jermo's DX7 Setup Video

[PBMAXX]

First flight just now (in the dark) with the DX7 and the TREX600. Gyro worked great at 74% in the DX7 (35 on the GY601). And with Bob's videos mechanical trim was perfect (nice little double lines on all the trims :D )

Final DX7 settings ended up being

Swash 50%
Reversed servos 2 and 3
Gyro HH and normal 74%
Pitch curves
Normal 44-47-50-75-100
ST1 0-25-50-75-100
ST2 0-25-50-75-100
Throttle curves
Normal 0-50-80-90-100
ST1 100-95-90-95-100
ST2 100-95-90-95-100
Countdown timer 6 minutes
small amount of subtrim on 2 servos...
Remember I moved up from a Hitec Eclipse 7. MAN WHAT A DIFFERENCE :WOW
Paul :glasses2:

[BarnOwl]

If you want to set the gyro up the Finless way just set the gear to gear and make the appropriate endpoints on the gear switch. Forget about the gyro menu.
Plus this way you can switch between HH and normal mode.

[maltydog]

If you want to set the gyro up the Finless way just set the gear to gear and make the appropriate endpoints on the gear switch. Forget about the gyro menu.
Plus this way you can switch between HH and normal mode.

that is actually the way i ended up doing it (on the advice from a local heli guru). with the spektrum dx7 and gy401, he said set the endpoints at around 35 - 40 positive for HH mode and -35 to -40 for std mode. flick the gear switch up for HH and down for std. i've played around with the numbers in HH mode and ended up with around 40 - 45. very stable tail with no wag. :D

gw

[Finless]

On what a 450 or a 600? I can tell you setting up properly for rate mode on a 450 limits your full travel potential in HH mode as you dont have a way to set a different limit on each side of throw. The limit pot is it on a 401. To set up rate mode properly your pitch slider will not be center in the hover and thus your limit pot is lowered so you dont strike the tail hub. This in turn keeps you from going full towards the tail case and thus lowers resolution. This will also require you to lower gain.

On a 601/611 you have a limit value for each side thus this works OK. If the 401 had a limit for each side I would say go for it but it doesnt.

Later when your trying to do harder 3D you will find your tail wont hold in all conditions.

My 2 cents but trust me you wont see people like the Szabo's etc setting up a 450 like this.

Bob

[Jermo]

If you want to set the gyro up the Finless way just set the gear to gear and make the appropriate endpoints on the gear switch. Forget about the gyro menu.
Plus this way you can switch between HH and normal mode.

that is actually the way i ended up doing it (on the advice from a local heli guru). with the spektrum dx7 and gy401, he said set the endpoints at around 35 - 40 positive for HH mode and -35 to -40 for std mode. flick the gear switch up for HH and down for std. i've played around with the numbers in HH mode and ended up with around 40 - 45. very stable tail with no wag. :D

gw

If it works :)
My question would be why? (remember I'm new), I don't see why you would want to pop out of HH mode randomly. Just seems to make it more complex to feel around the radio for yet another button while flying :arggg:

I used to fly planks and always hated finding Gear and Flaps ..I never wanted to take my eyes off my bird.
Jermo

[maltydog]

yea i agree. i don't intend to pop out of HH mode. i am new also so still wading through the reams of available info. let me go back and re-watch the videos again and see if it sinks in a little deeper this time. :wink:

gw.

[Jermo]

feel free to hit by PM or Post, the entire HF community is supportive. Nobody looks down on anyone just because we don't know something or make mistakes. It's part of the process.

The main advantage I see of using the Gyro Sense menu is it allows you to adjust both modes independantly of a switch so you can theoretically change them in flight w/o changing modes/switch position. In addition it allows you to have TWO settings for the mode you want to operate in that's controllable by the flight mode switch (a switch you'll probably use and actually want to change the gain/mode..) so you won't have to hit TWO switches to change gain/setting for the gyro based on flight mode.

Seems to me there's a reason for the Gyro Sense menu and why it's layed out the way it is..ie flight mode switch tied to changing Gyro gain.

Answer me this: If you do use different Gyro gain settings in Idle up mode is it easier to just tie the gain to the idle up switch or have it on the gear/aux2 switch?

hehe....I'm still new but maybe a hot 3d pilot can comment on different gyro settings in different modes.
Jermo

[BarnOwl]

My question would be why? (remember I'm new), I don't see why you would want to pop out of HH mode randomly. Just seems to make it more complex to feel around the radio for yet another button while flying :arggg:


Well, for starters you have to setup your tail in normal mode......

I fool around a lot with different setups and I like to be able to switch my gyro in normal mode when I feel like it.
I am not saying your way doesn't work, just another approach....... :wink:

[Jermo]

My question would be why? (remember I'm new), I don't see why you would want to pop out of HH mode randomly. Just seems to make it more complex to feel around the radio for yet another button while flying :arggg:


Well, for starters you have to setup your tail in normal mode......

I fool around a lot with different setups and I like to be able to switch my gyro in normal mode when I feel like it.
I am not saying your way doesn't work, just another approach....... :wink:

kewl.. mmm...I wonder if you can use mixing to re-enable the gear switch...and keep it in Gyro mode..? It's pretty easy to switch modes when setting the gyro, just one press of the button to change the 0 to a 1 on the Norm: setting (assumes you have the 0: setting and 1: setting for each respective mode).
Jermo

[BarnOwl]

For everybody that hasn't seen it yet, there is a very good explanation of the 401/DX7 gain setting in this thread in the 2.4 Ghz forum:

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=31243&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Just scroll down a bit, kgfly gives a very clear view of the issue.

[Jermo]

changlog post:
I'll be editing this up to the time I shoot it. If I miss stuff just post and I'll update this.

Rev3
Changes:
1. Gy401 setup - correct settings explain why
2. GY401 add alternate config with standard channel (gear/aux/other)
3. CCPM Swash adjustments - explain settings more
4. Recap properly setup head

[bullaculla]

Man, 2 months too late! :mrgreen:
But I watched it anyway and now I have confidence that I set up my radio correctly. I have my 611 gyro set up the way BarnOwl mentioned. Gear to gear with the appropriate endpoints.
It works so I will probably leave it.

[Jermo]

<cut>
It works so I will probably leave it.

exactly, there are several ways to setup the Gyro. At the end of the day the method you feel happy with is best.
Jermo

[TMoore]

Paul, first you should NEVER run a 601 or 611 at that high a gain! You will burn up your servo. 37% MAX man.....


The original premise for this gain setting was for use on a Fury by Jason Krause for 3D flying. You would be hard pressed to convince plots like Hashimoto (3 time WC), Sensui, Dobashi or Wayne Mann that 37% gain is the max because it all depends on what length servo arm you use and how much throw you need. The Japanese pilots will run 100% gains for certain flight profiles depending on what they are trying to achieve.

I've seen the gain settings anywhere from 25% all the way 55% on various machines of mine so at the risk of arguing with Finless yet again, IMHO, the best way that I have found is to test fly the machine and take a temp gun to the tail servo. If the temps measure more then 140 degrees F you are nearing the max temperature threshold just prior to servo failure. The servos won't survive much more than 150 degrees F before the motors and amps start to go away. At this point the servo isn't worth fixing due to the cost of the motor and amp. I'm currently flying 5 of the 601's and 3 of the 611's. The servos can last several hundred flights if taken care of before they require replacement.


TM

[Jermo]

Tmoore are you talking about the gain in the TX or the Gain setting On the Gyro?
Jermo

[TMoore]

The gain setting in the TX doesn't matter. All I'm concerned with is the gain at the gyro.

TM

[WillJames]

Unless you are using the GY menu on a Futaba Radio, you are going to have to look at the Gyro display to see what gain setting you have while you adjust the endpoints on the remote gain channel of your choice to achieve desired gain setting.

[TMoore]

Unless you are using the GY menu on a Futaba Radio, you are going to have to look at the Gyro display to see what gain setting you have while you adjust the endpoints on the remote gain channel of your choice to achieve desired gain setting.


Correcto mundo!

TM

[Finless]

I wont argue the higher gain on other helis.... Go run 80% on a Trex600 and see how long your servo lasts... I told Paul that specifically because that is a Trex600.

Bob

[TMoore]

I wont argue the higher gain on other helis.... Go run 80% on a Trex600 and see how long your servo lasts... I told Paul that specifically because that is a Trex600.

80% is a long way from 37%. It will ulitmately depend on the servo arm ball radius and how hard you push the machine.

If you are trying to hold a hover in a mean crosswind as you might do in competition 37% may not be enough gain.

TM

[Finless]

Most of us with the new tail grips (larger disk) are runing no more than 28% gain (as read on the 611 display). Pauls older tail was around 36%. Tail holds fine in any backwards conditions I have seen it put through. Going much higher and you get wag when doing backwards flight but of course Paul wont notice this just hovering and simple FF BUT it is over working the tail servo with the gain amount he has.

Needless to say I aint arguing other helis, gain, etc I was simply telling Paul that on his 600 anything over 37% is too much for this heli and tail design. Paul is local to me so it wasnt meant to be a general post but directed at Paul.

So Terry... what you hunting out anything I post trying to find a hole somewhere to contradict? Sheesh man...

Bob

[TMoore]

Friendly debate as far as I can tell, nothing more.

TM

[slikrx]

OK, I have to admit I'm kinda lost on the "50% +32% = 82% " portion.

By my thinking (and I'm a newb) it should be 66, not 82.

By using the drawing from the video:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/slikrx/rate-sensingthing.gif

Since with the DX7 you are compressing the "top 50%" of the normal curve by half, shouldn't reduce the gain increase by half?

I read through this and didn't see it mentioned. I am getting a DX7 and then shortly after, the 401 gyro, so I'll be fighting through this exact thing...

*confused* :dontknow

[Jermo]

Slikrx,
sorry for the confusion. If you are using the Gyro Sense menu 1 point of Gyro Sense is equal to 1.44 gain on the Futaba GY401. To this end if we want 32 gain on the gyro gain channel then we need (32/1.44) to get the magic number for the Gyro Sense menu. Now comes a curve. The Gyro Sense menu only goes from 0 to 100%. Numbers 0-49 are for Normal Mode, while numbers 51-100 are for Heading Hold mode. so (32/1.44) = 22.222' (we'll round this down to 22). Using 50 as our center point 32gain (that we established takes 22 points in the Gyro Sense menu), for each mode is 22 from center.

Thus 32 gain in Heading Hold mode is 50 + 22 = 72
and 32 gain in Normal mode is 50 - 22 = 28

Keep in mind these are starting points and may change with your tail servo and configuration.

Using the Gyro Sense menu allows you to map the gain anytime and control it with the Flight mode switch or the throttle hold switch.

The suggesiton is to set the Heli up for Neutral tail in Normal mode in hover, then setup the heli in heading hold mode and keep it there. This allows for stability in the event the gyro is reset in flight by a power glitch.

Many have suggested this normal mode setup in hover is not necessary because you can just hit throttle hold and land.

I hope this helps.
Jermo

[slikrx]

Slikrx,
sorry for the confusion. If you are using the Gyro Sense menu 1 point of Gyro Sense is equal to 1.44 gain on the Futaba GY401. To this end if we want 32 gain on the gyro gain channel then we need (32/1.44) to get the magic number for the Gyro Sense menu. Now comes a curve. The Gyro Sense menu only goes from 0 to 100%. Numbers 0-49 are for Normal Mode, while numbers 51-100 are for Heading Hold mode. so (32/1.44) = 22.222' (we'll round this down to 22). Using 50 as our center point 32gain (that we established takes 22 points in the Gyro Sense menu), for each mode is 22 from center.

Thus 32 gain in Heading Hold mode is 50 + 22 = 72
and 32 gain in Normal mode is 50 - 22 = 28

Keep in mind these are starting points and may change with your tail servo and configuration.

Using the Gyro Sense menu allows you to map the gain anytime and control it with the Flight mode switch or the throttle hold switch.

The suggesiton is to set the Heli up for Neutral tail in Normal mode in hover, then setup the heli in heading hold mode and keep it there. This allows for stability in the event the gyro is reset in flight by a power glitch.

Many have suggested this normal mode setup in hover is not necessary because you can just hit throttle hold and land.

I hope this helps.
Jermo

It helps, sorta... I forgot the 1.4 factor gets you to 22... but shouldn't THAT then be cut in half to account for the reduction from 100% to 50%?

I guess it doesn't really matter, since it gets you close and I will need to be adjusted anyway...

Sorry for being dense!