Jermo's DX7 Setup Video

[Jermo]

ric4nier,
Just connect the servo straight to the RX, set the tail slider in the middle with the servo horn at 90 degrees on the tail servo. Do this without any settings in the TX..ie no trim or ATV..etc.. so it's a mechanical setting.

Then connect the Gyro, move the rudder full left and right, adjust the limit pot on the gyro to prevent servo bind. you can adjust the limit in normal or HH mode.

never use rudder trim with a gyro.


for your pitch issues refer to The Finless Series CCPM2 video Here (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/trex450&filename=CCPM_Part_2.wmv)

edit: review all the setup videos in Bob's Tech Room to ensure proper assembly and adjustment.
Jermo

[Jermo]

Revision 3 is ready. It's rough but I expect it's better than revision 2. I've only redone the Gyro information and there are some odd video bloopers with overlays. Revision 4 is already planned :)
I'll have it up on my site for Bob to put on the board tonight (27Feb07).

Thank you for the kind words and the feedback .
Jermo

[Finless]

Version 3 link is posted!

Enjoy!

Bob

[skid]

Just a little note. For those of you that are using the ar6100 rx you will have to put the gyro on gear. There is obviously no aux2. :wink:

[Jermo]

:wink: hehe..since the AR7000 is standard with the DX7 unless the vendor swaps it around I didn't consider it...I'll put that in rev 4 :)
Jermo

[Gary Evans]

The use of the gear switch with gyro selected appears to be the most common method of controlling Gyro gain
Is the reason for not using the gear switch with gear selected and travel adjustment just that it cannot be set up as always in HH mode or is there another reason?
If you were to use the gear switch with gear selected what should the +- travel values be to achieve the initial target of 32% in normal and HH? Would they just be +32 and -32?

[Finless]

It's just a personal preference. I personally like the gyro menu myself as I can set different gains for normal and idle up without having to throw a different switch!

Bob

[Gary Evans]

Thanks Bob!
Would the +32 and -32 be the correct values for the gear/gear method?

[Finless]

I dont know as i dont have a DX7... I would assume so though as that is how other radios do it using end points.

Bob

[Jermo]

Thanks Bob!
Would the +32 and -32 be the correct values for the gear/gear method?

we'll have to test those values with a 601 to see the read out but they should be correct based on testing. My tail holds the same with that as it does with the gyro menu.
Jermo

[Jermo]

Revision 4 to do list

1. CCPM Swash adjustments - explain settings more
2. Recap properly setup head
3. Expo explaination and how to program
4. Recap and review throttle curves
5. Recap and review pitch curves
6. Explain DX7 use with Sim


Jermo

[skid]

Gary Evans wrote:
Thanks Bob!
Would the +32 and -32 be the correct values for the gear/gear method?

Gary, I really don't know why you would want to do that. Setting the gear to gyro and using the gyro sense mode in auto is so much better. That way you can use settings in all flight modes. Jermos setup on his vid is really the way to go imho.

[Gary Evans]

I'm not pushing either way. I've used both.
In gear/gear it is easier to understand gain values as they are straight forward and it does applies to all flight modes. It is also easier to switch back to normal mode for setting the tail slider if your replacing boom parts.
I can see where the gear/gyro makes sense if you want to use differant gains in differant flight modes.

[Jermo]

Gary with the DX7 the values are the same regardless of how you enter them. Not 100% why but it's 1.44 gain per point in the TX.
Wagging the rudder in HH mode will also reset the gyro/tail to center for replacing boom/tail parts :).

With regard to using differnt Gyro settings in different flight modes using the Gyro Sense method allows you to map all three flight modes ON the flight mode switch. You only get two settings but they can be applied independantly to any or all of the three flight modes.
Jermo

[Gary Evans]

Gary with the DX7 the values are the same regardless of how you enter them. Not 100% why but it's 1.44 gain per point in the TX.
Wagging the rudder in HH mode will also reset the gyro/tail to center for replacing boom/tail parts :).

With regard to using differnt Gyro settings in different flight modes using the Gyro Sense method allows you to map all three flight modes ON the flight mode switch. You only get two settings but they can be applied independantly to any or all of the three flight modes.
Jermo

What is required mathematically to arrive at 32% gain is quite different for gear/gear vs. gear /gyro.

With gear/gear you just put in 32%.
With gear /gyro you have to know that your starting at 50 and that the you need to factor the target by 1.44.
I know which of these is simpler for me.

My understanding from the videos is that you should set the gyro limit in normal mode. Is that not correct?

If you want different gyro gains in different flight modes gear/gyro is the ticket but I suspect most people are not at that level (at least I'm not). For me one gain level will suffice for the foreseeable future but it is nice that in gear/gyro you can set HH to be the active mode.

I really have no preference for either method and think it’s more important to understand the differences. There is no one size fits all.

[Jermo]

Based on our tests using the GY601 which has a display the DX7 is 1.44:1 for anything we do.

For most if not all flying you just center the tail in normal rate mode (gyro mode), adjust the throw limits on the Gyro limit adjustment so the servo/tail doesn't bind, then configure the Gyro Sense menu to stay in heading hold mode regardless of flight mode with a setting of 72%.

you don't have to know what's center or anything, using the gear switch still gets you to 72.

The Differences in setup between using the Flight Mode switch and the Gear/Aux switch are just personal preferences. For most of us that fly in HH mode we can just use the Gyro Sense menu and go fly. The ONLY thing we need to know is how to reset the Gyro if we have to connect the battery back from the line then carry it somewhere (sounds dangerous to me), That's handled by the Tail Wag.
What is the proper way to turn on my heli/aircraft, and then carry it out to the flight line?
ALWAYS turn on your receiver AFTER your transmitter is on and in AVCS (heading hold) mode.

Then, either:

a) set gyro to normal mode, carry to take off point, return to HH mode; or
b) leave in HH mode, carry to take off point, wagging rudder stick left then right occasionally and last immediately before setting down the chopper.
If you do not do A or B and you change the direction the model is facing while carrying it, when you go to lift off the AVCS gyro will return the model to the orientation when it was turned on. It has no idea that your hands rotated the heli and not the wind!



Note method B.
Jermo

edit: There's no one right way IMHO, just one way that takes more thought..ie hitting a different switch than flight mode.
Jermo

[Jeffs450SE]

THANK YOU!!
The updated version cleared up the 401 confusion I was having.

imagine something so small, causing so much confusion.Now Iknow how people felt when the t.v. remote first came out!!! We can't live w/o that either.

[Gary Evans]

Based on our tests using the GY601 which has a display the DX7 is 1.44:1 for anything we do.

For most if not all flying you just center the tail in normal rate mode (gyro mode), adjust the throw limits on the Gyro limit adjustment so the servo/tail doesn't bind, then configure the Gyro Sense menu to stay in heading hold mode regardless of flight mode with a setting of 72%.

you don't have to know what's center or anything, using the gear switch still gets you to 72.


Are you sure about that? This was the reason for my previous question regarding the actual values to use for a target of 32% with gear/gear. The following quote from Dana Estes explains it a differant way.

Since the gear channel has -100 to +100 on the endpoints, -100 endpoint=100% Rate gain, 0=No Gain, and +100 endpoint=100% HH gain. No math needed. +endpoint just "is" gain in HH, and -endpoint just "is" rate. Two examples: +60=60% HH gain. -25=25% Rate gain.

This simplicity is why I tend to believe that the gear channel is really easier than the Gyro page. Unless a person truly NEEDS the ability to have different gains when in different flight modes, which the gyro page makes very easy, the gear channel may actually be a better way.

Is he not correct that in gear/gear the middle of the range is zero and in gear/gyro the middle is 50? If so then does the 1.44 factor apply in gear/gear or not?

[Jermo]

Based on our tests using the GY601 which has a display the DX7 is 1.44:1 for anything we do.

For most if not all flying you just center the tail in normal rate mode (gyro mode), adjust the throw limits on the Gyro limit adjustment so the servo/tail doesn't bind, then configure the Gyro Sense menu to stay in heading hold mode regardless of flight mode with a setting of 72%.

you don't have to know what's center or anything, using the gear switch still gets you to 72.


Are you sure about that? This was the reason for my previous question regarding the actual values to use for a target of 32% with gear/gear. The following quote from Dana Estes explains it a differant way.

Since the gear channel has -100 to +100 on the endpoints, -100 endpoint=100% Rate gain, 0=No Gain, and +100 endpoint=100% HH gain. No math needed. +endpoint just "is" gain in HH, and -endpoint just "is" rate. Two examples: +60=60% HH gain. -25=25% Rate gain.

This simplicity is why I tend to believe that the gear channel is really easier than the Gyro page. Unless a person truly NEEDS the ability to have different gains when in different flight modes, which the gyro page makes very easy, the gear channel may actually be a better way.

Is he not correct that in gear/gear the middle of the range is zero and in gear/gyro the middle is 50? If so then does the 1.44 factor apply in gear/gear or not?

Gary, he is making the same guess most of us made based on the GY401 docs. Based on Testing with a DX7 and a GY601 (has a display) we found it to actually be 1.44 to 1. PBMAXX did the testing for us. It's possible we mis-understood the test results but none of the test results matched the expected values. 1.44 was consistently the answer.

At the end of the day the actual numbers only matter if the tail holds. Futaba actually suggests starting at a setting of plus/minus 50 and increasing it to get the tail to hold. That would get us closer to 72% regardless.

I'm happy to be wrong but so far the data we have supports the numbers.

I will say that different radio's may give different results and this data is specific to the DX7 (and we suspect to JR in general).
Jermo

[Gary Evans]

He wasn't making any guess regarding adjustment factors. His post was made way before the need for a factor was realized. He was only explaining that the middle of the range in gear/gyro is 50 and in gear/gear it is zero. I believe he is correct. Do you agree? That will result in a big difference between the final gain value regardless of factor applied. If 32% is the target in gear/gear the final number isn’t going to be 72.

On the subject of the 1.44 factor perhaps I misunderstood the testing that arrived at this value. I was under the impression that the testing had all been done in gear/gyro mode. Has there actually been a test conducted in gear/gear?

[PBMAXX]

No test in Gear/Gear. All tests were in Gear/Gyro. Final results were:
With GY601 internal gain at 100% the DX7 gain gave basically 1% for every 2% in the GY601. Ie 1 click in the DX7 changed the GY601 2%

When I change the GY601 internal gain to 50% 1 click on the DX7 changed the GY601 1%.Ie 1 to 1....

So basically with my GY601 set at 100% gain, my DX7 set for Gear/Gear my radio says 74% and my gyro says 35 :D

Does that clear it up or make it worse :?:
Paul :glasses2:

[Jermo]

PBMAXX that clears it up some. but with the same setup on the gyro..ie 100 gain AT the gyro, what setting on the GYRO sense entry gives 35 gain ?

we arrived at the same setting of around 72 to get the correct gain but with your test on the gear channel it looks like nealry 2:1 ratio. interesting.
I honestly thought we tested this ..I'll dig back through ..I have this already recorded on my sheets as being tested by you with data results :dontknow

Jermo

[Gary Evans]

So basically with my GY601 set at 100% gain, my DX7 set for Gear/Gear my radio says 74% and my gyro says 35 :D

Does that clear it up or make it worse :?:
Paul :glasses2:

I'm still puzzled by this one. Are you saying that when you input 74% on the radio in gear/gear it shows 35% at the gyro? If the middle of the range in gear/gear is zero how does 74% at the radio turn out to be 35% at the gyro?

[Jermo]

:) exactly as expected. Gary refer to the Gyro docs...Futaba used the same pic/explaination for the 601 as they did for the 401, the primary difference is the 601 has a gain adjustment AT the gyro.
Jermo

[Gary Evans]

I'm looking at the 401 manual diagram for gain setting via ATV function. I assume this is the correct one to mimic a DX7 gear/gear mode.
It shows zero on the radio = zero gyro sensitivity
and
90 at the radio = 100 gyro sensitivity

This means there is a SLIGHT drift across the range between radio and gyro sensitivity.

Now back to this statement that I was questioning.

"So basically with my GY601 set at 100% gain, my DX7 set for Gear/Gear my radio says 74% and my gyro says 35"

My question is still why when in gear/gear mode does 74 at the radio show as 35 at the gyro?