dx7 binding

[killabee]

Is it needed to bind the radio to the rx every time the tx is switched on?

[Danal Estes]

No.

[Jermo]

It's a good idea to bind it when setting up a new model. I'd not trust factory binding personally.
Jermo

[xStatiCa]

Definitely not needed every time you power on.

For a new heli I would call it a requirement to rebind it to make sure throttle fail safe is set to low stick (0 throttle).

If I change rudder trim/subtrim I also rebind to set the rudder fail safe position to the new center point. This makes sure that if the rx/tx don't sync up before the gyro initializes in HH mode it will get the correct center point to use for HH mode.

[scorlett]

Have you tested setting the throttle failsafe? I'm using an AR6100 reciever, maybe it's deferent than the 7000. I played with it last night. If you turn off the TX all channels (including 1) seem to remain (hold) the last position (which seems good to me for heli flying). When the reciever is initializing/sync-ing with the TX, all the channels except the throttle do seem to go to a bound failsafe position. The throttle, doesn't seem to get any signal during that phase, or at least my test servo would never move till the sync was complete, regardless of the TX stick or the position of the servo prior to turn on.

Sam

[Jermo]

Have you tested setting the throttle failsafe? I'm using an AR6100 reciever, maybe it's deferent than the 7000. I played with it last night. If you turn off the TX all channels (including 1) seem to remain (hold) the last position (which seems good to me for heli flying). When the reciever is initializing/sync-ing with the TX, all the channels except the throttle do seem to go to a bound failsafe position. The throttle, doesn't seem to get any signal during that phase, or at least my test servo would never move till the sync was complete, regardless of the TX stick or the position of the servo prior to turn on.

Sam

yep :) the AR6100 saves all channels. That's one of the features of that RX. For the other RX models only the throttle channel is remembered at bind time.
Jermo

[killabee]

thanks again people :D

[Danal Estes]

So the 6100 is "hold last good" even on CH1? Are we truly certain about this?

If so, all the "should I use 6000 or 6100" threads need to contain this key piece of information.

Personally, I would NEVER fly a receiver that holds throttle on loss of signal. Your opinion may vary. I believe this is UNSAFE, badly unsafe, on nearly any model.

[Danal Estes]

Further on failsafe... I've seen (and repeated) this post several times. Nowhere else has anyone said anything about the 6100 being different:

For the AR7000, AR6100, and AR6000 receivers there are three possible states:

1) Initial power up, output is:

CH1=No Pulse
CH2-N=Position memorized at bind.

2) Once the receiver "finds" the transmitter, all channels output transmitter commands (i.e. pilot control).

3) During loss of signal (aka Fail Safe), output is:

CH1=Position memorized at bind
CH2-N=Hold Last Good

Note there is a receiver that seems to be almost unknown to flyers called the "BR6000". It has "memorized at bind" on ALL channels during condition (3) above and is otherwise identical to the AR6000. It is sold for robotics.

Of course, just becaouse no one corrected it doesn't mean it's right! I'm now very curious about the 6100. May have to get (or borrow) one and physically verify...

[xStatiCa]

There seems to be a lot of mis-information about how the DX6 and DX7 rx's behave. The information above is not entirely correct.

The information I know and have tested:
1. The BR* and AR* (AR6000, AR6100, AR7000) receivers all remember the positions of all servos during the binding process.
2. The BR* and AR* receivers when first turning on the rx all servos go to the fail safe positions except throttle which does not output a signal until tx syncs up with rx. You can easily test this yourself by binding when holding left cyclic (make sure throttle is still zero!) and then turn on the rx without turning on the tx. After a second or so the rx moves all servos to fail safe positions except throttle.
3. For the AR* receivers when in flight and you lose signal ONLY the throttle channel goes to fail safe. The rest stay at last known position.
4. For the BR* receivers when in flight(or driving whatever) and you lose signal ALL the channels go to fail safe positions. This is required because some channels are used for weapons in robots and you definitely want to make sure they turn off when you lose signal.

3 and 4 is what distinguish the BR* from the AR* receivers.

The DX6 manual states that if you adjust rudder trim you need to rebind the rx to set the fail safe for the rudder to the new trim.

[Danal Estes]

There seems to be a lot of mis-information about how the DX6 and DX7 rx's behave. The information above is not entirely correct.

The information I know and have tested:
1. The BR* and AR* (AR6000, AR6100, AR7000) receivers all remember the positions of all servos during the binding process.
2. When first turning on the rx all servos go to the fail safe positions. You can easily test this yourself by binding when holding left cyclic (make sure throttle is still zero!) and then turn on the rx without turning on the tx. After a second or so the rx moves all servos to fail safe positions.
3. For the AR* receivers when in flight and you lose signal ONLY the throttle channel goes to fail safe. The rest stay at last known position.
4. For the BR* receivers when in flight(or driving whatever) and you lose signal ALL the channels go to fail safe positions. This is required because some channels are used for weapons in robots and you definitely want to make sure they turn off when you lose signal.

3 and 4 is what distinguish the BR* from the AR* receivers.

The DX6 manual states that if you adjust rudder trim you need to rebind the rx to set the fail safe for the rudder to the new trim.

Agree with your (1).

During your step (2) agree that all channels go to "memorized at bind", except I disagree about CH1. With RX on and TX not (yet) on, I have verified that CH1 does NOT output any pulses. Used a servo pulse measuring test device. Physically verified on AR6000. I have not, but can, verify on an AR7000 as well.

Agree with your (3) and (4) and the follow on statement about AR/BR receivers.


Summary: I agree with everything you said, and believe that our posts are equivalent, EXCEPT, CH1 before the RX finds the TX... and I've physically verified that there are no pulses in this case.

Note that this can be extremely hard to tell with a servo plugged into CH1 as most servos move slightly when powered up... and with no pulses they move at random and it's easy to convince yourself that they've moved to fail/bind or hold or whatever.

How did you measure CH1's state when RX powered up, TX not yet up?

[Danal Estes]

Ahhh! I see you edited your (2) to say "except throttle...".

Now I believe our posts say exactly the same things, in different words! :hug:

[xStatiCa]

yea... i noticed that after i read it the third time(after posting) :). Sorry about that.

[Danal Estes]

yea... i noticed that after i read it the third time(after posting) :). Sorry about that.

No problem! It's hard to convey in words. I've thought a couple of times of doing a "State table" and asking Bob (and/or RCgroups) to make it a sticky.

Your wording is great... if I cross post, I may post both versions.

[xStatiCa]

When reading your description I thought you were trying to say that only CH1 and CH2 are affected by binding and only the BR sets fail safe for the other channels. That is what prompted me to respond. I see you were just using CH2 to mean all the other channels. It was just confusing to me reading it when afterwards you mentioned that the BR 'It has "memorized at bind" on ALL channels during condition'.

I agree... I find it difficult to describe technical stuff like this. I usually start typing something and then it gets way too long and it still might leave some things to interpretation so I abort after 30 minutes of typing a response. I finally let the description above go through after 15 minutes :).

[Danal Estes]

Aha, thanks, that's good feedback. I meant "Ch2-n" to be "2 through N" and using N to account for 6 v 7 on the various receivers. But... over-abbreviation, particularly when imbedded in a complex sequence, just doesn't work.

So, I think I'll use some combination of both of our words, and get rid of that particular abbreviation.

Again, THANKS, knowing which words "tripped it up" on a "cold read" really helps.

[Jermo]

There's a difference between all RX remembering servo positions and failsafe positons.

what I think you guys are saying is NOT correct so I'm pasting directly from spektrum.

AR6000
What is SmartSafe?
SmartSafe is a unique form of fail-safe that prevents unexpected motor startup when connecting the battery and shuts off the motor if the signal is lost. The AR6000 receiver incorporates a unique fail-safe system called SmartSafe that makes it ideal for electric models. Fail-safe positions for all channels are stored during binding. If the receiver is turned on before the transmitter, all channels except for the throttle will acquire their programmed fail-safe position. The receiver, however, will not output a signal to the throttle channel, preventing the electronic speed controller from arming. When the transmitter is turned on and the throttle is placed in the low throttle position, the receiver transmits a low throttle signal to the throttle channel, allowing the speed control to arm. After connection, if the signal is lost, the throttle will go to its preset position (low throttle) while all other channels will hold their last command.


From the AR7000 Manual
Smart Safe Fail Safe <cut>
Establishes low-throttle failsafe if the RF signal is lost.
Maintains last-command control surface position in the event of RF link interruption


I can't find the AR6100 manual but Support at horizon hobby told me that fail safe mode for the AR6100 was for all channels to goto Bind position except for throttle which goes to low stick.

so really the only "mis-information" posted was that stick position is saved for throttle.

If you guys said the same thing as this post kewl...it just sounded like you guys were saying something totally different.
Jermo

[Danal Estes]

Both of your cut/pastes agree with what we said, with the single clarification that when they say "low throttle" they are assuming that low throttle is what was memorized at bind time. I'm confident that this clarification is true as the behavior on Channel 1 has been physically verified by several people (including me).

I don't have a 6100 to verify what support said... but everything elsewhere says it acts like all the other receivers. I may have access to one in the next few days. If so, I will use my pulse-width tester to verify all behaviors.

By the way, the manual is known to be wrong in a couple of places regarding fail safe. Again, physically verified by multiple people... Unfortunate, but true, that you can't fully trust the manual.

[Danal Estes]

Maybe I should have said "The DX6 manual is known wrong about failsafe" as the quotes above from the DX7 manual look pretty good! :D

[Jermo]

hehe... :)
well at least we will end up with what actually works regardless of the manuals and can document it :)
Jermo

[Kushal_22]

"
Talking about Binding" it sounds as if there are TWO ways to Bind. WITH and WITHOUT that Switch that has three wires comming from it. I Know How to do it WITH the Switch.

I THOUGHT I knew how to do it WITHOUT the Switch but i cannot find where to plug in the Blinding Plug into the TX...Or am i Just Mistaken and it can Only be done with the 3 Wire Switch?

Regards
Malcom

[killabee]

i have successfully binded the radio and rx by inserting the bind plug into the rx where the three wire switch would normally go in, but the flight pack must be connected and motor , dis-connected for safety !!!!!!!!

[Danal Estes]

Correct. Switch harness is just a way to get the bind plug "to" the BATTERY port on the receiver. So plugging the bind plug directly into the battery port is just fine. Of course, then the battery port is in use, so where does the power go? Power (either from a battery or a stand alone BEC or whatever) can be plugged into any port.

Switch harness & bind plug makes it easier, but anything that connects the "outermost" pins on the battery port and something to get RX power... you're in business.

[kgfly]

To bind without the switch:

1) Insert bind plug into the BATT position on the Rx
2) Insert power source (Rx pack or ESC throttle cable) into any other position on the Rx
3) Turn on Tx while holding the bind button down.

[Kushal_22]

Gotcha!

Thanks Guy`s
That will make binding anywhere easier.

Next Question
Where do most of you guy`s store your Bind Plug?

I myself have all three "Plugs" loooped together and then just Stashed it in with the TX Battery. That way I "Never leave home without it" :wink:


Regards
Malcom