Smoked HV85 using Tango 45-08

[TomC]

Although this problem happened on my Trex600 I believe it's applicable to many of your Razor setups so thought I'd pass it on.

The Tango motors are very low inductance motors and in their manual say to run them at a min 32KHz PWM frequency.

The HV85 with the latest software allows for 3 different choices; 13KHz (default), 26KHz, and 52KHz. There is no custom, in-between choises.

The best advice I could get over the web from CC was to start at 13KHz and work your way up slowly. The higher the pwm freq, the cooler Tango motors will run but the CC escs run hotter at higher pwm freq's since they are working harder to provide the power at higher freq's.

Anyway, tried it at 13khz and the motor was warm and esc was barely warm. At 26khz the motor was cooler, but the esc was warmer. At 52khz the motor made a few funny noises, did not start, and a bit of smoke came out of the esc! I let the esc cool down and reprogramed it to 13khz. It ran fine over a 5 minute hover. Obviously, some smoke must mean some damage has been done and I will send my hv85 back to cc for inspection/repair/replacement.

I put back on my old hacker 77 heli esc (w/32khz settings) and it runs fine with 100-90-100 idle up 1 and 100 flatline idle up 2 throttle curves.

Thought all you Razor guys with hv85's and Tango 45-08's should be aware of this. Stick with 13khz unless your motor runs hot, and do not go above 26khz.

Cheers,

Tom C

[Aussieheliguy]

Hey Tom have a CC85HV on my Razor and it runs sweet at around 60% gov high. Runs as cool as cucumber and very smooth. Have you looked at Clints setup proceedure

[TomC]

Hey Tom have a CC85HV on my Razor and it runs sweet at around 60% gov high. Runs as cool as cucumber and very smooth. Have you looked at Clints setup proceedure

Yes this is where I started. But the optimum PWM freq for Tango motors was not covered. Not when Kontroniks says to use 32khz minimum.

Cheers,

Tom C

[TomC]

G'day guys,

Just a quick update. I finally got a response from CC today (took +4 days to get back to me) and they told me not to run the Tango motors above 13khz. They say that they have tested all 3 settings (13,26,and 52khz) and did not notice any motor performance difference, just additional system heat at higher pwm's. The heat of course is from the HV esc. It has to work harder at higher pwm freq's. On the other hand, very low inductance motors, like the Tango, are more efficient at higher pwm freq's. Imop the CC HV components cannot handle high pwm freq's so I don't even see why they include them.

I'm waiting for a response from Kontronik regarding the use of their motors at lower, than their recommended pwm = 32khz minimum.

I'm currently using my old hacker 77-heli esc while I wait to get my HV85 back from CC. It has 3 pwm freq's; 8,16, and 32khz and seems to work fine at 32khz. Also, the Tango motor is noticably cooler than it was with the HV85 at 13khz. All this pwm crap has freaked me out so to be on the safe side I have just lowered my hacker esc pwm to 16khz. I'll try it tomorrow and see if there is any noticable difference.

It all seems to be harder than necessary sometimes!

Cheers,

Tom C

[Clintstone]

Tom , Sorry you had trouble. I have been running my posted settings for quite some time now with no issues. Mike Goza ran different pwm settings on his actro 32-3 and while he could get more power he was told he needed to run it at the lower setting. He went back and tweaked the other settings and got the performance he was looking for. I have more flights with my posted settings than any other combination I have ever flown with no maintainance since I started flying helis. I hope they get the HV back to you soon so you can get it flying again with the Hv controller.

[TomC]

Thanks Clint, I pretty sure that CC will look after me. Ran the hacker 77 heli esc today at 16 and 32khz pwm. The Tango motor was noticably cooler at 32khz and the esc was just body temp warm at 16 and 32khz after 8 minute runs. Maybe German escs like German motors better! Anyway, look forward to giving the HV85 a go again in gov mode.

Cheers,

Tom C

[misskimo]

Clint , how many flights have you got on the HV 85 and total on the razor?

[Clintstone]

over 300

[t-rexn8]

Hello Clint. Where exactly is your setup at?

[Clintstone]

Here is the file.############################################# ##########
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Sunday, December 03, 2006
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: 180
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Forward (*)
Spool-Up Speed: 6
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Delay: No Delay
Motor Start Power: 2.125
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 24.2857142857143

[Aussieheliguy]

Hey Clint, how many batteries do you have for the Razor? Do you share them with the ION?

[Clintstone]

I am fly 10s 2X5s1p 3700evo's. I have 3 sets for the Razor but the Ion I am flying on 12s 2 X 6s1p. I flew both the razor and the ion on 10's and if I were to fly common packs the best choice would be 4350 5s1p. I was getting around 5 1/2 to 6 min in the Ion and the Razor was around 7 to 7 1/2. Flight times depend on flying style and power output. We can gear for how ever much power you want but there are trade offs. A responsible settup like I have on the razor can yield extended pack life.

[Huthy]

Here is the file.############################################# ##########
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Sunday, December 03, 2006
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: 180
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Forward (*)
Spool-Up Speed: 6
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Delay: No Delay
Motor Start Power: 2.125
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 24.2857142857143

Clint, with this setup (presumably on your Razor), how does the speedie behave if you need to bail out of an auto?

With soft start, etc, how does it all "work"?

Thanks.

[t-rexn8]

Thank You Clint.

My Razor is on the way thanks to Jeremy at RC Hover.
I will be running your setup. Nathan.

[Clintstone]

Here is the file.############################################# ##########
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Sunday, December 03, 2006
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: 180
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Forward (*)
Spool-Up Speed: 6
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Delay: No Delay
Motor Start Power: 2.125
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 24.2857142857143

Clint, with this setup (presumably on your Razor), how does the speedie behave if you need to bail out of an auto?

With soft start, etc, how does it all "work"?

Thanks.

The soft start will keep the esc from starting. I will post how to make it work this week. I have never been one to bail but I set it up at B'Ham so I could bail.

[Huthy]

The soft start will keep the esc from starting. I will post how to make it work this week. I have never been one to bail but I set it up at B'Ham so I could bail.


Clint, that would be awesome, thanks. Obviously "not bailing" is the better option, but it would be good to know how to set it up so that it is possible. Thanks.

[Aussieheliguy]

Chris I have heard some people have the esc setup for throttle hold just a couple of points higher than total motor off, so that the motor is just turning over when the hold switch is on. I think it will then spool up with the throttle response setting and not start power and soft start settings...try it on the ground..

[Aussieheliguy]

off course try this with the softest throttle response to start with

[Clintstone]

take it another step and put a delay in the radio.

[Aussieheliguy]

can you do that with a 9X?

[bob00]

Definitely set some delay in the Tx.

Don't know if the 9X has the feature - pretty sure my 10X did.

- Rob
Team FlightPower
TeamBob00

[Peter]

9x11 can do it ... but i cant see it working well .. and i'm not into electrics anyway ! . I just fly Huthy's !!