Problem with HV110 on Ion-x

[TomC]

I just replaced my Hacker 77 heli esc with a new HV110 on my 10s Ion. This was to get ready for 12s, later this year,when the new Ion belt drive comes out. The 77 heli esc was working very well with a 100% flatline Idle up throttle curve.

I ran the hv110 with 100-90-100 idle up 1 and 100% flatline idle-up 2 throttle curves (fixed heli endpoints). I was usiing the latest 1.55 software.

The problem I had was that the tail would twitch a little every 10-15 seconds, in either idle up flight mode. It sounded to me like the motor speed was varying a little bit at these times. All my wires were in the same position as they were with my 77 esc and I am using a DX7 Spektrum radio and 401 gyro. I tried adding ferrite rings to my throttle and gyro leads. This did not help.

I e-mailed CC a couple of days ago asking for advice but have not heard back from them. I then tried to roll back the software versions from 1.55 to 1.54b, to 1.52b, to 1.51b. By the time I got down to 1.52b, the flatline 100% Throttle curve worked great, not twitching, but the 100-90-100 still had some. When I rolled back to 1.51b, both worked fine and the tail is rock steady, just like it was with my old 77 heli esc.

I'm not sure what the problem with the latest 1.55 software (actually +152b) is. Apparently, CC have recently modified their opto couplers on the HV escs. I really do not know what this involved or how this might have effected my setup. I guess the main thing is that it is working fine now.

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem (I did do searches for it) but I thought it would be useful to pass onto you guys.

Cheers,

Tom C

[OICU812]

Holy cow Tom, you've had some bad luck with CC lately man, that sucks. Hope they fix you up right away. :wink:

[TomC]

Shawn,

I'm sure CC will come good on the HV85, but I'll probably have to wait for future software upgrades to the HV110, which I'm sure will come good eventually.

Converting my Hacker 77-heli escs to CC's has not been a real good economic decission so far!

On a positive side, the HV110 handles 100-90-100 throttle curves on 10s no problem. It stays very cool, while the Hacker 77-heli esc would get very hot and really only likes 100% flat throttle curves. This seemingly small diference has improved my runtimes by 0.5-1.0 minutes and reduced motor temps (which were alreadyl pretty good) from ~ 135 deg f to ~125 deg f. Also, the spoolup (@ spoolup = 1, throttle reponse = 5, and fixed endpoints) is very smooth and only takes about 20 sec vs the 35-45 sec on the Hacker esc. which jerks a bit at the beginning.

I'm sure that all this will come good eventually ( I hope!).

Cheers,

Tom C

[Aussieheliguy]

Hey Tom did you set up the CC110 per instructions both my CC85 and CC110 are never set to 100% they are around 55% to 60% (gov high) as per the instructions to give a h/s set by the fixed point 75% settings.....

[TomC]

Hey Tom did you set up the CC110 per instructions both my CC85 and CC110 are never set to 100% they are around 55% to 60% (gov high) as per the instructions to give a h/s set by the fixed point 75% settings.....

I'm talking about settings with heli fixed endpoints, not gov mode. This is where you are supposed to start things off with. I already know that depending on whether you choose hi or low gov depends on your motor kv) and that these % # are not applicable to fixed endpoint settings. Thanks for your concern anyway mate.

Cheers,

Tom C

[Greg Alderman]

Tom...take a look at this thread started by Clintstone:

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=23893&highlight=

Clint is the helifreak guru on the CC HV-85 and HV-110...

Some of the things I see right off the batt with your set up is that you are running at 100% in the Fixed endpoint mode...You need to be hitting your target headspeed at around the 75% - 80% in fixed endpoint...probably need to change your gear ratio so your head speed you want falls within that percentage...

Also...if you have not tried the GOV settings on the HV-110...you don't know what you are missing! :D The governor works outstanding on the 85 and 110 (never tried a 45, so I can't say).

But anyway...take a good look at the set up hints that Clint talked about in the thread...good info!

Greg

[mudbogger2]

I had the same thing on mine. I was seting up the esc in fixed endpoints and the tail would do the exact same thing. Once I went to govenor mode I dialed the gain setting down untill the wag went away. Now it runs perfect with no tail wag. Govenor works great when setup that way. Using 1.55 on mine as well.

As Greg said above if you go through the setup and use govenor mode it will be worth it.

[Willy J]

Wow Tom, I am having the exact same problem with the HV85 in the Razor but only in high gov mode. I have a HV110 in my Ion with 10s and a 32-3 and set it up per Clints method running in high gov mode, it works great and I am very happy with it. :D

Since I had good luck with the 110 I decided to try the 85 in the Razor with my 24-4. I didn't notice the twitch in fixed endpoint or low gov. A few weeks ago I had it out at night and was just hovering around and it was twitching just like mentioned above at about the same frequency. I could see the light on the ESC blinking then go solid then back to blinking then solid all while the throttle/pitch was barley being moved. Thinking I was getting a glitch from somewhere I set it down and put it away for the night. It's worth mentioning that only the motor seemed to be twitching but not the servo's or anything. After going over every single part and bearing I found nothing out of the ordinary and with only 9 flights on it I wasn't suprised to find everything in top condition. I'm running a 9303 with a 649 rx, 8311's, a 601 and the letest firmware in the ESC also.

Deep snow high winds and frigid temps have kept the Razor grounded so I haven't had a chance to get back out and trouble shoot yet but after seeing this post maybe I don't have a glitching problem but have a problem with the ESC? :dontknow

I will be interested in seeing what you find out as it looks like it will be a while before I can get out and fly due the the weather and the work schedule. Best of luck with yours though!!

Bill W.

[Aussieheliguy]

Hey Bill, how far have you dialled the gain down?

[Clintstone]

I had a tail twitch and I ran the gain down and it took care of it. It was an 85 on an Ion. I have been running 12s and actually I have seen 4350 watts out of the HV 85...................runs very smooth on 3700's and 4350's , 2 X's 6s 1p on the Ion X2. I am looking for more good weather over the next couple of weeks. Looks like the 10's 4350's Iam getting a solid 6 1/2 min and the 12s 3700 I am getting solid 5 1/2 min and the 12s 4350 I got 6 1/2 to 7 min with the best performance ever...........it was cold and windy and the heli and the packs were seemingly not affected by the elements on 12s......................very nice and smooth. Actro 32-3 for my base line with the HV110 and the HV 85............Gov. High mode with the mostr current firmware. I am going back to bed.

[Willy J]

Well I started it out @24. Then went down to 16 and finally down to 11 and it's still twitching the tail exactally the same. It's not the same twitch as when the gain is up to high on my HV 110 in the Ion. In the Ion if the gain was to high it's more of a quick but steady increase or decrease in motor power. In the Razor (with HV85 & 24-4) it's almost like it's switched off for a split second them back on. None of the other electrics seem to be affected. The servos don't seem to twitch or anything. I guess it does seem to point to the ESC more than glitching after writing this out but that was my first guess. Like I mentioned I can't really get out and fly right now so I havn't been able to do much other than try changing the gain a few times and hovering to see if it changed, which it didn't, but I only went down on the gain and not up.

Bill W.

[Clintstone]

Does the oscilate either direction? As you stated , you have not had the best weather............ I am sure it will be easily resolved after having some quality time outside. If you have any trouble I would be glad to help. I have been using the Gov. program for flying but I have only really used the fixed endpoint as a tool to verify the target HS and of the motor , esc. and gearing. I have setup MA and other brands with the same good results from the CC controllers on each motor and heli combination . I have mainly ran the tango 45-08 on my Razor and the Actro 32-3 in my Ions. The Neu motors look really good also but as I don't own any at this time my input on these motors are limited at this time.

[WillJames]

In the Razor (with HV85 & 24-4) it's almost like it's switched off for a split second them back on.


That sounds like either your AV's on the Throttle channel are not right or the GOV gain is to low off the top of my head.

Clint has helped me setup the CC controllers in all of my machines and we have not come up on an issue that he was not able to solve. Winter sucks for figuring out this kind of stuff. :DOH

[Willy J]

Yeah Will, winter is a bummer for flying! :( I still get out if the wind is down and my feild is usable.

Anyway, I set up the ESC according to Clints post and watched the video that he made and it seemed to setup accordingly. The video was a great help!!

I will probably double check the setup and then play with the gain some more when the weather allows and hope that helps.

Bill W.

[TomC]

I'll let you al know what CC says, if and when they ever get back to me. The tail twitch (tail right, nose left) is prety indicative of a slight drop in motor speed imop.

All my setting are ok and now that I've rolled back to 1.51b software, the twitch has gone. I may try Gov mode later, but right now have my gear ratio just where I like it with a 100-90-100 curve (~1850 nominal hs). To me, it does not make a lot of sense to use gov mode if you do not need it and I doubt that this would have made the wag fo away on 1.55..

I had a similar problem with my HV85 in gov mode. Like Bill, I never could seem to get rid of a small amount of tail wag no matter what the gain setting was. I went to non-gov mode and the tail wag stopped, even with 1.55. Maybe when I get my HV85 back from CC (smoked it) I'll try 1.51b and see if the gov is more stable.

These CC HV controllers have got me stumped a little. To be honest, I'm not really happy that I went out and bought these right now. On 10s, the Hacker 77 heli esc was working fine in non-gov mode.

Cheers,

Tom C

[TomC]

Mongo,

That's news to me you big Texas Wrangler! I've never heard of any HV esc that cannot handle 100-90-100 throttle curves. Even my old Hacker 77 heli esc could handle this, although it did run cooler on 100% flatline throttle curves. Or do you think that CC HV esc cannot handle 100% flatline throttle curves as well.

Cheers,

Tom C

[TomC]

Mongo,

So you are saying that fixed heli endpoints and throttle curves are not usable. Target 75-80% throttle headspeed and run this hs in gov mode. I promise I'll try this soon on the HV110 on my Ion, but right now it's working great with throttle curves and 1.51b software.

I followed exactly this process on my HV85 and Trex600 and I couild never get a very slight tail wag to go away at any gov gain setting but it worked perfect with 100-85-100 throttle curves (no wag) and 1.55 software. Go figure? When I get it back from CC I'll try it again with 1.51b software and see if this works better.

Cheers,

Tom C

[Greg Alderman]

Tom...you certainly don't need to run that head speed in gov mode...from talking with Bernie (and Clint, who has spent countless hrs talking with Bernie) the reason for targeting your headspeed to the 75 -85% in fixed endpoint is to give enough headroom for the governor to properly maintain constant headspeed during flight loads...

I only run two head speeds on my Bergen E-Magnum I have been prototyping...but I know Clint is running 3 headspeeds (normal, Idle 1 and Idle 2...throttle hold is his "OFF" setting) ranging from I believe 1600 to 1950 with outstanding results...silky smooth at all head speeds...

[TomC]

Thanks Greg,

I'll try a few diff idle-up hs' like Clint and see how it works. At the relatively low hs's that Clint likes, I'd say that 85% fixed endpoint throttle is about a low as you need to go.

Any idea what software version Clint is using (1.51-1.55)?

Cheers,

Tom C

[Aussieheliguy]

Hey Tom, can't speak for everyone but all 3 of my CC esc's are running v1.55 and setup per Clints comments, and they all run very smooth...the soft start is best though...love it

[TomC]

Glad it's working well for you guys. Mine is working fine now on version 1.51b. I think that most of the mods done to the cc HV's software after 1.51b were to address problems like jerky startups with large outrunner motors. I see both of you are using Actro motors in your Ion's so maybe this is why the later versions are working well for both of you.

Cheers,

Tom C

[mudbogger2]

I have the 1521/1.5 with version 1.55 in mine. 1.54 worked good for me as well.

[TomC]

Jon,

Are you using gov mode or fixed endpoints? Thanks.

Cheers,

Tom C

[Aussieheliguy]

If you read back in the post, Tom, he is using gov mode as per Clints setup

[TomC]

Thanks Bernie, I thought so. Guess I'll try gov mode, starting with 1.51 and work my way up to 1.55 and see if this works better. Thanks again for all your very good feedback guys. I'll let you know how I make out.

Cheers,

Tom C