Finally ready for flight... but I need some help

[bcane98]

Well it's been almost a week of beating my head into my desk (not really), but it was time to let the blades spin. WOW... Definitely not like my BCX.

So I have it in my garage and I just wanna maybe pop the skids off the ground to see what it would do. I set the bird down. I tighten the main blades so they don't fall over, but so they are snug and require a jerking motion to move them.

OK, so all the power is on, the gyro (401) light is solid, I give it a little throttle, it jerks and wobbles, I give it more throttle and the wobble goes away. I watch the tail to ensure I keep it as straight as possible. I give a little throttle until it starts to piro out of control. I immediately toss the throttle all the way down and pray the bird doesn't break. After about the 3rd or 4th time my Gyro light started blinking again...

So I figure it is just me and I attempt it again, and again, and again. I am true n00b through and through on this and yes I would like to keep damage to minimum so that I do not get discouraged with this part of the hobby.

I have G3 on its way, so I am gonna hold out for that before I try to take off. Especially since the weather here cold/damp/rainy outside. I have training gear for a mico-heli, so I will strap that on for assistance. I am all about taking my time on this.

I read somewhere on here and a couple other sites that my gyro setting might be too high. I was under the impression that my radio would be controlling the sensitivity of it. I have it set at 50% on my radio and 75% on the 401 itself.

Man I love this hobby... I wish I would have done this part many many moons ago. Thanks to anyone that can lend a hand :Stay

[Jermo]

<cut>I read somewhere on here and a couple other sites that my gyro setting might be too high. I was under the impression that my radio would be controlling the sensitivity of it. I have it set at 50% on my radio and 75% on the 401 itself.

Man I love this hobby... I wish I would have done this part many many moons ago. Thanks to anyone that can lend a hand :Stay

um.. 50% in the radio means you are right at the point where we put the gyro in HH mode or normal mode. Depending on your radio..etc you'll want to up the number in the radio, try setting it up to about 72 in the radio.
Jermo

[bcane98]

Now in my radio 1-49% is 1-100% NORM Rate and 51% - 100% is 1-100% HH.

Currently I am at 75% (in the radio) which would be 50% HH. Should I increase that to about 83% (in the radio) which would be about 72% HH.

WOW... I had to re-read that a couple time so I didn't get confused LMAO.

Does the sensitivity on the 401 itself matter or is the radio doing the sensitivity?

[WayneBrown]

If it's piro'ing, you may have the gyro reversed. Look a the leading edge of the blades, viewing tail to nose an input on the transmitter should move the leading edge of the tail blades the opposite direction.
To confirm gyro direction, push the stick to the ohh, right. Tail blade leading edge goes left, note the direction the pushrod goes, either pushes or pulls.
Rotate the heli left, the pushrod should go the same direction as it did on a right stick input.
I generally start with the gain in the 60's, usually around 63%. Pop into a quick hover and adjust from there.

[bcane98]

I hope I am using the piro term correct. Basically pirouetting would be the same as when I give full right rudder on my BCX and it spins around... right?

In this case the tail is doing the same thing accept I am not giving any input on the rudder.

If it's piro'ing, you may have the gyro reversed. Look a the leading edge of the blades, viewing tail to nose an input on the transmitter should move the leading edge of the tail blades the opposite direction.
To confirm gyro direction, push the stick to the ohh, right. Tail blade leading edge goes left, note the direction the pushrod goes, either pushes or pulls.
Rotate the heli left, the pushrod should go the same direction as it did on a right stick input.

I did this and everything checks out. Gyro is G2G. I even reversed chl-5 and then the light started blinking. One thing that I did notice is that when I gave left or right rubber it stayed left or right and I had to move the rudder back to center. A couple of times the gyro would start blinking, but this could have been because I was making inputs through the controller


I generally start with the gain in the 60's, usually around 63%. Pop into a quick hover and adjust from there.

It might be a little bit before I pop it up. Could my gyro be too loose? Should I use a new piece of double sided tape? Should I zip tie it down?

[WayneBrown]

Check the rotation of your tail. if everything is correct gyro-wise, you *might* have an extra twist in the tail belt.
The rotation should be CCW, or blades turning upwards at the front of the tail gearbox, into the main rotor downwash.

[bcane98]

Check the rotation of your tail. if everything is correct gyro-wise, you *might* have an extra twist in the tail belt.
The rotation should be CCW, or blades turning upwards at the front of the tail gearbox, into the main rotor downwash.

Nope.. no twists in the belt... rotation is correct...

[WayneBrown]

this is a good one!
Try this, wedge your finger between the maingear and spur gear that drives the tail pulley and force the tail (from the tail) through a partial rotation, look for any slippage of either the belt, or a pulley.

[BarracudaHockey]

Start over, and nix any preconceptions you have. When you look at something over and over you tend to see what you expect. I tore up a bunch of flowers in my wifes garden doing the same thing.

Make sure that the tail rotor is turning counter clockwise when looking at the right side of the heli, if the tail rotor were to hit the ground it should throw dirt towards the front of the heli.

Give right rudder. In most cases this should cause the servo to pull the rod, look at the tail blades, are they increasing pitch so as to push the tail left (which would make the nose rotate to the right)? If this is backwards reverse the rudder channel.

Now pick up the heli by the head and turn the nose counter clockwise (looking down) and again, the servo should give RIGHT rudder, usually pulling the rod frontwards, if this is backwards reverse the NOR/REV switch on the gyro.

Some other things to check. Init the gyro, make sure the light comes on solid after flashing for 3 seconds or so, and make sure you dont move the heli while its flashing. If you get a steady light then move the throttle stick up and back slowly (if its an electric disconnect the motor, nitro just do it w/o the engine running) and watch the light (make sure you arent inadvertently giving rudder) and make sure the light stays on. If it starts doing a double flash and the tail blades are changing pitch when you move the collective then find and disable REVO mixing.

If all that is ok flip it into idle up and make sure the light stays solid. If you get a double flash your trims arent the same between normal mode and idle up, center them both and make sure you have 0 sub trim.

[Pinecone]

Two things. It is NOT the gain setting.

Uncontrolled piro means you need to change the direction ON THE GYRO ITSELF. There should be a forward/reverse switch. Put it the other way.

What is happening is that when the tail starts to move, the gyro tries to stop the movement, but the motion it uses is the wrong way, so the prio rate increases, but the gyro sensing that tries more tail motion to stop the prio, which is still the wrong way, so it piros faster, and the gyro tries to compensate, and so forth until the thing is at a full rate piro.

Reversing the rudder control just changes which way the tail moves when you move the stick. Read what Wayne said, and/or get the Finless video on setting up the gyro. It is for a 401, but the basic chaecks on movement are the same.

[bcane98]

Uncontrolled piro means you need to change the direction ON THE GYRO ITSELF. There should be a forward/reverse switch. Put it the other way.

BINGO!!! I watched Bob;s video again and caught that statement right at the end and remembered it.

So I wen outside and smooth as ice... Now I am gonna put some training gear and have some fun. I have some tuning to do on the head as I had to ad some trim in, but I am pretty sure I can work that one out.

Thanks again guys I really do appreciate it. MAN I am so excited!!!

-Rick :dance :clappp :banana :FRI :Stay :woohoo :woot :happyd :cheers

[bcane98]

My first attempt at hovering was awesome. I wasn't able to hover in as small area as my BCX, but a driveway isn't too bad (LMAO)!!! I only had to use a little trim too, so I set my bird up pretty good though.

I was able to look at the blades, for some odd ball reason tracking was on my mind, and I think I need to work on some tracking though. Looking at it from behind the left side look like it was wobbling or something. Gotta wait for my battery to recharge anyway.

I need to get some batteries though, one 3S 1500 mAh is not gonna cut it... I would ask for suggestions, but I know that is more a personal opinion than anything plus there is already a thread on that in the lipo section :D

Thanks again guys...

-Rick

[Pinecone]

If it is wobbling, the head speed may be low or something may be bent.

Tracking shows as one blade higher than the other, and some vibration.

[Jermo]

My first attempt at hovering was awesome. I wasn't able to hover in as small area as my BCX, but a driveway isn't too bad (LMAO)!!! I only had to use a little trim too, so I set my bird up pretty good though.

I was able to look at the blades, for some odd ball reason tracking was on my mind, and I think I need to work on some tracking though. Looking at it from behind the left side look like it was wobbling or something. Gotta wait for my battery to recharge anyway.

I need to get some batteries though, one 3S 1500 mAh is not gonna cut it... I would ask for suggestions, but I know that is more a personal opinion than anything plus there is already a thread on that in the lipo section :D

Thanks again guys...

-Rick

Rick,
I don't know how they are for hardcore 3d..etc but I bought 2 packs of hextronics for $32 each. 3s 11.1v 2250mAH at 20-30c. The packs are huge compared to some packs I've seen but they are serving me well and were 1/2 the price of anything else I looked at.
This stuff comes from a store in China. Shipping is slow (about 3 weeks for me) but it's worth it IMHO.
www.unitedhobbies.com
link for the batteries I purchased: https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2045

Jermo

[bcane98]

Rick,
I don't know how they are for hardcore 3d..etc but I bought 2 packs of hextronics for $32 each. 3s 11.1v 2250mAH at 20-30c...
link for the batteries I purchased: https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2045

Jermo

Here's what I just bought. Ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300081107448&rd=1&rd=1). I will however take a look at these too. What does the 20C mean? The batteries I got are 15C.

I'm still learning, so no 3D anytime soon. I have had 3 hovers, so I figure a couple more weeks of hovering I should be good.

I just got a Futaba 9CAP, so not I have to learn this radio... all over again :arggg: There is a lot of options on this radio, so I just set it up for normal flight right now. Once I can hover like a champ then I will change it up for idle 1/2 flight. I will probably need to find a trainer or someone who is skilled before I start 3D...

-Rick

[Jermo]

The C rating generally referes to the amount of power transfer. If someone says they charge their lithium poly battery at 1C and the battery is a 2200mAH battery then the rate they charge the battery at is 2.2Amps of current. The batteries are rated by the power they can supply and often rate a surge value. In this case 20C constant is claimed with a surge value of 30C.

20C is 44Amps with 30C being 66Amps. My controller will only handle 35Amps. The end result for me is longer flying time.

check out THIS LINK (http://www.rchobbies.org/lithium_battery_breakthrough.htm) to learn more about Lipo batteries.
Jermo

[Pinecone]

NO, higher C doesn't give longer flying time. It gives you a) more power if the rest of your system is setup to handle it/require it, and b) longer life out of your packs (life measured in number of cycles) if you draw the same rate out of it.

Basically if you heli draws 30 amps, on a 3S pack, it will draw pretty mcuh 30 amps no matter the capacity (mAH) or C rating (with one slight catch). But if you use a 2000 mAH 15C pack (30 amp capable) you are running right at the limit of the pack. If you use a 2000 mAH 20C pack (40 amp capable) you are using only 75% of the ability to deliver current. This means longer pack life (not per flight) and a cooler running pack.

The slight catch is, for a given number of watts, the higher C pack will actually allow the system to run at a lower amp draw. This is because the C rating is based on the packs ability to deliver amperage with some maximum voltage drop. Say that drop is 2 volts at max C. A 2000 mAH 15C pack delivering 30 amps is at its max, so there will be a voltage drop of 2 volts, or a nominal 9.1 volts. This is 273 watts. Using a 20C pack would allow the pack to deliver that 30 amps with only a say 1 volt drop, so a nominal 10.1 volts, but since the setup will tend to draw the same power (watts) the pack only needs to deliver about 27 amps. So even easier on the pack.

[Jermo]

bah nevermind, I knew that..sigh..tired today.
Jermo

[Pinecone]

I was wondering. :)

[bcane98]

Now I have a few hovers under my belt, but I have noticed when the main rotor starts spinning the bird wobbles until it gets up to speed. Is this normal?

I made sure the blades were balanced. The main blades are tight enough where they stay in position when the bird is tipped on its side, but if I shake it the blades fall. I have not done any tracking on the blades yet.

[WayneBrown]

yup, normal..