DSM2 for all - Spektrum modules for JR/Futaba/Hitec

[ErichF]

You guys *****ing about the price:

The Synthesized Module for the JR tx = $100
The Synthesized JR rx = $200

So $300 for a synth setup is acceptable, but $250-300 for a bullet-proof, high-speed, MODERN RF solution is too much?? :dontknow

You same women go out and drop $350 for a gyro/servo.

C'mon people :roll:


Erich

[kgfly]

Well $299/9ch it seems about $100 too much to me when I can have a more richly featured, bullet-proof, high-speed, MODERN RF solution for $179/8ch or $199/10ch :)

Particularly since outside the US the prices are often much higher. For example the DX7 lists in Australia for US$440 which is $100 more than in the US. The AR6100 lists for US$100, almost double the US price. That suggests to me that these flight packs will be more like US$400 over here :shock:

Of course the great thing about these modules/rx is that unlike the old FM ones, they are global products so I can order them from the US if I have to :D

[ErichF]

Your talking about a product that doesn't even have a release date yet. XPS can claim any price, so long as they don't deliver, what does it matter?

Erich

[spork]

I would think people would wait at least for the projected release date before trash talking a product. Why put yourself in a position to have to eat your words later.

By the way, I don't know if they'll come through or not. But they're not getting a deposit OR any crap from me until at least the projected release date.

[kgfly]

Actuall XPS have stated that they will have modules and Rx for sale at the Toledo show so that will be ahead of Spectrum.

Spektrum can claim any price they like too, they have not delivered either. Prices are always subject to change.

Guys I fly Spektrum and think it is marvelous. I don't have shares in Spektrum or XPS and I don't have a modular radio. I am just sharing information, my analysis and opinions which is what a forum is about, sharing amongst people with a common interest.

To me XPS looks technically better on several fronts and is cheaper. What's wrong with that ? Sure there have been delays but I believe they will ship this year and then we will be able to tell if they live up to their claims. Spektrum has more credibility since their technology is proven and they are owned by Horizon so have a sound financial platform for their business as well as a powerful distribution channel. If you prefer Spektrum that's fair enough too.

[DarkWombat]

Actuall XPS have stated that they will have modules and Rx for sale at the Toledo show so that will be ahead of Spectrum.

Spektrum can claim any price they like too, they have not delivered either. Prices are always subject to change.

Guys I fly Spektrum and think it is marvelous. I don't have shares in Spektrum or XPS and I don't have a modular radio. I am just sharing information, my analysis and opinions which is what a forum is about, sharing amongst people with a common interest.

To me XPS looks technically better on several fronts and is cheaper. What's wrong with that ? Sure there have been delays but I believe they will ship this year and then we will be able to tell if they live up to their claims. Spektrum has more credibility since their technology is proven and they are owned by Horizon so have a sound financial platform for their business as well as a powerful distribution channel. If you prefer Spektrum that's fair enough too.

However XPS is still not on the market and Spektrum have been tried-and-true for two years in planes and 3 years in surface use. We know their system works while XPS is still not delivering. I've heard that the CEO of XPS was in the paintball industry until he failed, and had the habit of making promises and generating hype but not delivering in the end. And this comes from the same guy who also told me two weeks ago that Spektrum was going to announce their aircraft modules by the end of the month. I have dealer access to Horizon Hobby (and yes occasionally dealers are in the know before the general public) but there was NOTHING about these Spektrum modules until today when they were released to everybody. Actually the information I had was that they were going to announce on the 28th of Feb. but it looks like they announced earlier.

So now I've gotta decide...get a DX7 now or save up and get a 9303 + DM9!

[DebianDog]

You same women go out and drop $350 for a gyro/servo.



:lol:

[Danal Estes]

Well $299/9ch it seems about $100 too much to me when I can have a more richly featured, bullet-proof, high-speed, MODERN RF solution for $179/8ch or $199/10ch :)


Where do I order? Oh, wait, gotta go fly my DX7... maybe when I get back their will be an order button...

I try to stay out of these brand-brand comparison things, but I just couldn't resist, knowing kgfly can take it.... :D :D

[JackPerry]

Sadly for 7c/9c/9z owners the PPM latency is 65ms (vs 68ms for PCM) but at least it shouldn't be any worse with Spektrum than it is with PCM.

I can tell you that for me less than 1/10th second latency is a non-issue. Interesting side note. When sprinters begin a race they measure the pressure on the starting block. If the runner pushes off the starting block LESS than 1/10th second after the pistol, he is guilty of a false start. I take that to mean they feel the very fastest possible reaction for a professional athlete in their prime is at least 1/10th second.

Question about the 7C - since it doesn't use a module where will this thing go? Will it get the PPM signal from the trainer port?

Thanks for the good news Kenneth. It'll be crazy for me to join the 21st century :mrgreen:

EDIT:

Simple reaction time is the time it takes to react to stimuli. The average human's reaction time falls somewhere between 200 and 270 milliseconds, although athletes and others who train themselves can achieve reaction times approaching 150 milliseconds.
You are confusing reaction time with latency, they are not the same. Have you ever played online games? Difference between playing one with 100 ms and then 30 ms latency is like a night and day. Difference between 30 ms and 10 ms is not as great but still very noticable.

[JackPerry]

Check this out.

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/press_office/media/media410.shtml

"Dr Mania explains: "The experiment began with the minimum delay possible - 12 milliseconds - and was then stepped up, with eight milliseconds added each time. The results show people are very sensitive to picking up on delay and this stays true across different VR environments. Most people notice the visual consequences of latency at around 15 milliseconds, but some are very sensitive down to changes of five, even four milliseconds. Related research gives VR developers a clearer idea of the limits they have to work with to improve the science further."

[Aussieheliguy]

Yes it's global Kenneth but is it covered by our MAAA insurance at our registered fields....

[spork]

You are confusing reaction time with latency....

It seems you didn't read my follow-up post. I am writing a progam that anyone can download to experience the effect for themselves. Hopefully will post it in the next day or two.

[Kushal_22]

Remember that the latency for PPM on most Tx is much lower than for PCM (although not for the 9C which still suffers from CCPM-mixing constipation). For the 9303 it is 24ms vs 36ms. So the likelihood is that the 9303+Spektrum combination will not be significantly, if at all, slower than the 9303+PCM. All the Spektrum has to do is sample the PPM stream, tx the dataframe and then decode and output at the Rx.

XPS claim that their total latency from module input to Rx output is max 2.3ms. If Spektrum is similar then 9303+Spektrum will be better than 9303+PCM and rival DX7 latency :)

Sadly for 7c/9c/9z owners the PPM latency is 65ms (vs 68ms for PCM) but at least it shouldn't be any worse with Spektrum than it is with PCM.

Latency measurements can be found here: http://runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/?highlight=9c+latency

What you won't get with your old Tx plus a Spektrum module is the ModelMatch or the ServoSynch features. ServoSynch reorders the channels based on the mix chosen in the Tx and this is a big contributor to the DX7's outstanding CCPM performance. ModelMatch is a nice safety feature. On the flip side you get all the features of your favourite Tx (plus retain all the model memory programming).

Thank you!!

I Started kicking myself figuring i just wasted 450 dollars (Plus another 150 on another RX) for something i could have gotten with the 9C if i had Just waited. From what my Father has explianed to me from what he read in the Above qoute I am still alot further ahead with the Spektrum.....I Would keep a close eye on this if there was not so much "Greek" in there.
:D

Regards
Mal

[spork]

OK my little program is done. It's certainly nothing fancy, but it helps you get the feel of what different latencies feel like.

All it does is to let you draw with the mouse. Nominally it does this with no latency. Each time you press the keyboard up-arrow it will increase the latency by 20 msecs. The down-arrow decreases latency by 20 msecs. Hold the left mouse button to draw, and click the rt mouse button to erase all.

The current latency is displayed in the upper left part of the screen.

The program shouldn't require any installation. Just unzip it wherever you like and run.

[CRAZYKEV]

My 9303 with a 2.4ghz module will still have less latency than my 9303 running PCM.

I'm good with how my radio operates right now and if it faster, then I can live with that :mrgreen:

[heliroller]

What is amusing. XPS has not updated there website since November of 2006.
It is amusing they would update it the day after Spektrum anounces they will have SS modules for radios April 10th.
Seems like XPS has been polishing the mirrors and gassing up the smoke generator again.

David :rolling :rolling :rolling :lolol

[Tom Fiddler]

:lolol :lolol :lolol
Maybe it was the other way around :mrgreen:

What I find amusing is a company that would take pre orders for a product that has not even finished with development.
Imagine the lynch mob if XPS had pulled the photoshop trick!

[WillJames]

Don't believe everything you read about pricing on things not available...

[PBMAXX]

:lolol :lolol :lolol
Maybe it was the other way around :mrgreen:

What I find amusing is a company that would take pre orders for a product that has not even finished with development.
Imagine the lynch mob if XPS had pulled the photoshop trick!

There would have been 25 or so guys on RCGroups that would have had heart attacks right on the keyboard :D Their posts would have looked like:
HAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAA ouch! Can't breath, must call Paramedics.......... :drool:

[kiwiflyer]

Any radio gurus know if the jr and futaba channel expanders will work through the spectrum module and rx.Seems a shame to limit 12/14mz's to 8 channels.

[kgfly]

kiwiflyer - If they would work using the Tx in PPM mode through a stock PPM Rx then yes. If they rely on proprietary information in the PCM frame then no.

[buster1]

cool to see that spectrum has come out with the 2.4 modules for existing radios, but confused the hell out of me - I was just about to buy the DX7. Although the futaba is rich in features, I feel the DX7 has enough heli. features to program my heli. sufficiently. I get the feeling the DX7 would perform slightly better then the modules installed in existing radios,
Can any of you radio experts give me some guidance without all the latency debates attached,
Thanks,
Jeff

[kgfly]

cool to see that spectrum has come out with the 2.4 modules for existing radios, but confused the hell out of me - I was just about to buy the DX7. Although the futaba is rich in features, I feel the DX7 has enough heli. features to program my heli. sufficiently. I get the feeling the DX7 would perform slightly better then the modules installed in existing radios,
Can any of you radio experts give me some guidance without all the latency debates attached,
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,

The DX7 will perfom far better than a Futaba 7c/9c/9z for a CCPM by a significant amount, giving more precise and responsive control with far fewer cyclic interactions. It is a decent mid-range computer radio with a very nice LCD, fairly easy to use programming interface and all the features most pilots need. One nice advantage of the DX7 is that with its stock 1500mAh Tx battery and very low power consumption on DSM2 you will get about 8 hours runtime compared to may 2 or 3 for the stock setup on an F7/9.

While the performance of a 7c/9c/9z with the Spektrum module will be better than their performance with the native PCM hardware, it will still fall far short of the DX7 which is all-digital from sticks to Rx.

IMO you would be nuts to buy a 9c + Spektrum module instead of a DX7. Other than a nice throttle-linked timer and 1 extra channel (you only get 8ch on an F9c in PPM mode) there is little that the 9c has to offer over a DX7 AFAIK and you would be paying almost double but missing out on the ModleMatch and ServoSynch features, still be stuck with the lousy CCPM mixing, have shorter runtime, an inconvient mechanical setup on the Tx and only get access to 8 of the 9 channels anyway.

If you find you need higher end features I am sure a DX9 will be out some time this year (just my opinion) which will deliver the 9ch, fancy features, all-digital performance and the benefits of Spektrum DSM2 features like ModelMatch and ServoSynch.

[buster1]

Kenneth - thanks, very helpful information. I wouldn't be buying a new Futaba, I already have a 9Z, but I pretty sure the DX7 is the way to go and if the DX9 comes out - I can always pick one up. I think the spectrum tech. surpases the radio, plus new module's for existing radios - as per what you mentioned.
I ordered my DX7
Thanks,
Jeff

[spork]

So Kenneth, what are your thoughts on the recent lockout rumors with SS?