Center Hub/Seesaw mismatch?

[Daddyo79]

I presume that this does not apply to those of you who are now flybarless, but for those of us who are not... Here's an issue I've run into and one of you may have the answer.

In my first crash with the 550, the phasing pins on the center hub were bent a little, but fixable, and apparently one of the bolts that go through the hub to the seesaw loosened. I say apparently because a few flights after repairs one of my friends was looking at my head and noticed one of these bolts (and sleeve and bearing) was missing. I'm assuming it vibrated out after the crash, but don't really know when it came loose.

When I went to find the parts (#s 550609, 550151, and 550743 according to my manual) all I could find was the bearing and not the screw and sleeve. Someone else sent me a link and asked if this was the part I was looking for ( http://helidirect.com/r50n979ss-outrage-center-hub-sleeve-assembly-velocity-p-15125.hdx ) It looked right, so I ordered it. Since the phasing pins on my hub had been bent, and I presumed the needed parts would also come with the hub (although I didn't check that out thoroughly), I also ordered a whole new hub (http://helidirect.com/r550301ss-aluminum-cnc-center-hub-p-9727.hdx ), just in case. Now the bolts, sleeves, and bearing didn't come with the hub, but that's not important for this issue.

The parts arrived but when I went to put it all together I found that while the bearing was correct, and the sleeve fit in the bearing properly, the bolt wouldn't go into the seesaw. I compared the new bolt to the one still in the hub and found the new bolt was 2.5mm and the correct bolt was 3mm. Since a 3mm bolt wouldn't fit the brass sleeve (inside diameter of 2.5mm) I got creative and drilled it out. 3mm bolt now fit, but I did not have a recessed bolt like was supposed to be in there and the flybar seemed to bind.

So I figured I'd just use the new center hub. Nope. New center hub looks like it uses the 2.5mm bolts so I'd have to have a new seesaw? :arggg:

I did find this center hub: http://helidirect.com/r50n983ss-outrage-center-hub-flybared-velocity-fusion-p-15810.hdx which looks like an exact match for the hub I have. Specifically, the bolt and sleeve on my center hub are silver and actually appear to be one piece (although in the manual is says this sleeve is brass, which sure looks wrong to me!) I e-mailed Outrage to find out if I can get the correct parts, or if this fusion50 hub will fit, or if I have to buy a new seesaw before I order parts again!

So in the end, I'm not sure if there are two versions of the hub/seesaw combination for the 550, if my manual has the wrong part numbers (outdated?) or what. Anyone else run into this issue or am I just lucky?

PS: Even with only one bolt holding the seesaw I'm still flying. I just check the single bolt after every flight!

[pctomlin]

Hey Daddyo,
I ran into this problem when I purchased a used 550 that had some crash damage. I ordered the seesaw from the O550 parts pages at HD figuring this one was correct. It did not fit when I received it, so set off on a mission to find out what the deal was. There are 2 seesaws for the O550, the old style and the new style. The old style has 2.5mm cap screws with brass sleeves and the new style has M3X8 "special shoulder bolts". Before you buy you need to be very careful which seesaw you have. You can get replacement sleeves/cap screws for the old style seesaw, the new special shouldered bolts are not sold separately. The other confusing thing is the seesaw under the O550 section at HD is the old style, the seesaw under the Velo 50 parts section is the new style. The replacement old style sleeves/cap screws are only listed under the Velo 50 parts also. Both seesaw sleeve types fit the head block bearings. Hope this clears up some of the confusion.

This is the old style seesaw - Part# R550303-SS
http://helidirect.com/r550303ss-aluminum-cnc-seesaw-assembly-p-9725.hdx
http://helidirect.com/images/helicopters/helicopter_parts/outrage_rc/outrage_550_pro/R550303-SS.jpg


This is the new style seesaw - Part# R50N904B
http://helidirect.com/r50n904b-outrage-seesaw-assembly-velocity-fusion-new-3mm-p-15811.hdx
http://helidirect.com/images/helicopters/helicopter_parts/outrage_rc/outrage_velocity_50/R50N904B.jpg
This is the old style Center Hub Sleeve Assembly - Part# R50N979-SS
http://helidirect.com/r50n979ss-outrage-center-hub-sleeve-assembly-velocity-p-15125.hdx
http://helidirect.com/images/helicopters/helicopter_parts/outrage_rc/outrage_velocity_50/R50N979-ss.JPG

[Slyster]

This is your perfect excuse to go flybarless! :)

[pctomlin]

Sounds like we need to start another ECO-Terrorist group SAVE THE FLYBARS. Pete's house will be the one we protest in front of first.

[backburner1955]

This is your perfect excuse to go flybarless! :)

Can you use the stock FB Swash plate with the FBL Outrage 50 conversion head?

[Slyster]

yep no problem.. did that all last summer.. I only upgraded because the new swash looks cooler :)

[Daddyo79]

Hi Paul,
Yup... now that I've bought parts that don't fit (sheesh).
So I have to buy a brand new seesaw just to get the bolt I'm missing?

[pctomlin]

The only other option is a new center hub for the V50 which will not work on the O550, the seesaw is a lot cheaper. At least you will have a spare part for your 550. Might try and contact Gregg and see what he can do. Contact HD if that is where you got the parts from. They swapped me out for the right one. If totally wrong maybe they will give you store credit on returned wrong parts to purchase other stuff that will work.

[3Dmuse]

Hi Paul,
Yup... now that I've bought parts that don't fit (sheesh).
So I have to buy a brand new seesaw just to get the bolt I'm missing?

Open a ticket at HeliDirect and ask specifically for Larry and Jodi, they should be able to help you. Or send Greg Alderman a PM.

[lazor 22]

Can you use the stock FB Swash plate with the FBL Outrage 50 conversion head?

Yep I am using that now. I see no reason to spend another $35 (?) for a new swash till this one messes up, if it ever does.

[Daddyo79]

Update:
Outrage sent me a link to the shoulder screws I need. 4 to a pack from helidirect. They are listed as being for the fusion 50 (http://helidirect.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=R50N460&x=16&y=20)
But it looks like I got the last packet!

Barzaun: Thanks man. I'll open a ticket with helidirect on the center hub when I get home tonight!

[pctomlin]

Looks like we are going to have to scour the Fusion 50 pages now too. Would be nice if HD would combine all common parts for the O550, Velo 50 and the Fusion 50 into one catagory instead of now having to search three, two was bad enough.

[Daddyo79]

Looks like we are going to have to scour the Fusion 50 pages now too. Would be nice if HD would combine all common parts for the O550, Velo 50 and the Fusion 50 into one catagory instead of now having to search three, two was bad enough.
Yeah, I love this helicopter, but the parts situation is becoming very frustrating very quickly.

[Daddyo79]

Belay my last (*&^Y^^&%%&^**(()(*&^$^).
Just got the fusion bolts today and they are NOT the right part for this seesaw and center hub. Attached is a pic with the correct part on the left and the one they said would fit on the right. One on the left is 3mm and 9mm length. Fusion part is 4mm and 10mm in length. This is really getting irritating.

[lazor 22]

:arggg: I feel so sorry for you man.

[pctomlin]

This is getting very interesting. The shoulder bolt that you are showing as installed in your head block do not look like the ones I have. Mine looks like what you have pictured as the Fusion 50 shoulder bolts. Is it possible that your existing shoulder bolt is really 2.5mm and not 3mm. Try the new shoulder bolt in your motor mount or one of the bearing blocks or if you have a spare elevator control arm. These all have 3mm threaded holes.

My head block also appears to have 2 bearings on each side. Part of the bearing is sticking out of the block, but does not have the extra extended flange like the Velo 50/Fusion 50 block.

Can you take some pictures of your head block and how it goes together at the seesaw. Just guessing, I would say you have one bearing on each side with the wide flange of the shoulder bolt taking up the extra space in the head block to sit flush.

[Daddyo79]

Paul: That is what it looks like to me... and here are pics of the centerhub/seesaw as it exists today, with one bolt in place and the other missing.

[pctomlin]

Hey Daddyo, let's see if we can get you fixed up. It appears from the pictures you posted that we have the same seesaw set up in the center hub (new style).

A couple of questions. Is the part on the shouldered bolt in the picture a couple of posts above a bearing? Is the shoulder bolt that you have 3mm threads?

Here is how my center hub looks with the shoulder bolt installed. Looks just like the picture that you have posted.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220575&stc=1&d=1302304824

I removed the shoulder bolt and the bearing is still in the center hub. There are 2 bearings on each side of the center hub.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220576&stc=1&d=1302304824

Here is the other side of the center hub where I pulled out the shoulder bolt and the outer bearing stayed on. You can see the inner bearing.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220577&stc=1&d=1302304824

The top parts are the spares I have when I received the right seesaw. I still had my old shoulder bolts and linkage balls that I reused. You can see one shoulder bolt with the outer bearing on and the other shoulder bolt is bare.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220578&stc=1&d=1302304824

Shoulder bolt screwed into a 3mm hole on my spare elevator control arm.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220579&stc=1&d=1302304903

I know this seesaw works, this is what helidirect sent me to replace the wrong one that I ordered from the O550 parts pages.
This is the new style seesaw - Part# R50N904B
http://helidirect.com/r50n904b-outra...mm-p-15811.hdx (http://helidirect.com/r50n904b-outra...mm-p-15811.hdx)
http://helidirect.com/images/helicopters/helicopter_parts/outrage_rc/outrage_velocity_50/R50N904B.jpg
You are also going to need another 4x7x2.5mm bearing to replace the one that you lost with the shoulder bolt.
http://helidirect.com/r5506092-outrage-high-quality-ball-bearing-25mm-for-center-hub-velocity-50fusion-p-9679.hdx
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220580&stc=1&d=1302305087

If the answer to the 2 questions that I asked above is yes then we have a couple of routes we can go to get you fixed up.


I can send you one of my shouldered bolts to replace the one that you lost, but you will need to buy a 4x7x2.5mm bearing to replace the one that is missing.
You can purchase the R50N904B seesaw and the 4x7x2.5mm bearings to get the parts you need to get your center hub whole again.

[Daddyo79]

Hey Daddyo, let's see if we can get you fixed up. It appears from the pictures you posted that we have the same seesaw set up in the center hub (new style).

A couple of questions. Is the part on the shouldered bolt in the picture a couple of posts above a bearing? Is the shoulder bolt that you have 3mm threads?

Here is how my center hub looks with the shoulder bolt installed. Looks just like the picture that you have posted.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220575&stc=1&d=1302304824

I removed the shoulder bolt and the bearing is still in the center hub. There are 2 bearings on each side of the center hub.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220576&stc=1&d=1302304824

Here is the other side of the center hub where I pulled out the shoulder bolt and the outer bearing stayed on. You can see the inner bearing.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220577&stc=1&d=1302304824

The top parts are the spares I have when I received the right seesaw. I still had my old shoulder bolts and linkage balls that I reused. You can see one shoulder bolt with the outer bearing on and the other shoulder bolt is bare.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220578&stc=1&d=1302304824

Shoulder bolt screwed into a 3mm hole on my spare elevator control arm.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220579&stc=1&d=1302304903

I know this seesaw works, this is what helidirect sent me to replace the wrong one that I ordered from the O550 parts pages.
This is the new style seesaw - Part# R50N904B
http://helidirect.com/r50n904b-outra...mm-p-15811.hdx (http://helidirect.com/r50n904b-outra...mm-p-15811.hdx)
http://helidirect.com/images/helicopters/helicopter_parts/outrage_rc/outrage_velocity_50/R50N904B.jpg
You are also going to need another 4x7x2.5mm bearing to replace the one that you lost with the shoulder bolt.
http://helidirect.com/r5506092-outrage-high-quality-ball-bearing-25mm-for-center-hub-velocity-50fusion-p-9679.hdx
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220580&stc=1&d=1302305087

If the answer to the 2 questions that I asked above is yes then we have a couple of routes we can go to get you fixed up.


I can send you one of my shouldered bolts to replace the one that you lost, but you will need to buy a 4x7x2.5mm bearing to replace the one that is missing.
You can purchase the R50N904B seesaw and the 4x7x2.5mm bearings to get the parts you need to get your center hub whole again.

Hey Paul,

Yes. The part on the shouldered bolt on the left, the correct bolt for this head, is a bearing, and the bearing is 4x7x2.5. I actually did order a pair of those, but of course they didn't work with the brass sleeves and one of them was destroyed trying to make it work. I still have one spare bearing though. Also, yes. The threads on that bolt are 3mm (I mic'd them).

If you have that bolt I would be oh so grateful for it!

Where did you find it though? Was it a spare with your kit? If I run into a problem in the future, am I just going to have to buy a new center-hub/seesaw assembly to get all the right parts? That appears to be the case eh?

[pctomlin]

Yes, the shoulder bolts that I have are from the seesaw that I purchased. I reused all my old hardware from the bad seesaw. PM me your address and I will send you one of the shoulder bolts.

You may want to contact helidirect about the R50N460 parts that they sent. These are suppose to be the 3mm shoulder bolts, confirmed this in the manuals for the V50 and F50. Sounds like someone packaged up the wrong parts for them. The parts you go sent look like they may be to the V90, these shoulder bolts are M5x9.5.

[Daddyo79]

Yes, the shoulder bolts that I have are from the seesaw that I purchased. I reused all my old hardware from the bad seesaw. PM me your address and I will send you one of the shoulder bolts.

You may want to contact helidirect about the R50N460 parts that they sent. These are suppose to be the 3mm shoulder bolts, confirmed this in the manuals for the V50 and F50. Sounds like someone packaged up the wrong parts for them. The parts you go sent look like they may be to the V90, these shoulder bolts are M5x9.5.
Paul: Mail today was like Christmas! The part fits and I'm going out to fly!

and that came from this seesaw? http://helidirect.com/r5506092-outrage-high-quality-ball-bearing-25mm-for-center-hub-velocity-50fusion-p-9679.hdx

[pctomlin]

Glad you got it okay and it is right. Have a great time flying, the day is perfect today. Give us an update on your tail wag thread when you get back. The link you sent was to the 4x7x2.5mm bearings.

The shoulder bolt I sent you came with this part.
http://helidirect.com/r50n904b-outra...mm-p-15811.hdx