Got 2 different DD tail motors with identical part numbers

[slikrx]

I am getting ready to do a DD tail upgrade on my CPP, and ordered 2 of the recommended GWS motors.

Unfortunately, the two I got are different. The part numbers on the packages are the same, and the overall dimensions are the same (from what I can tell) but one is assembled and has vents in the can, the other needs to have the capacitor soldered and has no vents in the can.

Obviously they are from different vendors, but does anyone think they're OK? Or does anyone think there will be a problem? (aside from trying to mount the dang capacitor :arggg:

And, if I DO mount the capacitor, do I need to watch the polarity of it in relation to the motor? :bomb: :dontknow

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/slikrx/DDtailmotor-assembled.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/slikrx/DDtailmotor-unassembled.jpg

[Buzzkill]

I believe the short post on the capacitor is the negative lead. I've went through 4 of those motors. Keep frying them. I got a brushless one tonight.

[bpd282]

Ok,

Looking at the motor that came from a ducted fan unit (EDF-40H), it should be attached as follows:

The post that is close to the 1 should attach to the negative terminal of the motor. Obviously this leaves the post near the 4 going to the positive terminal of the motor.

My motor has the grey end-cap. If they don't work well, try extracting the motor from the ducted fan unit (EDF-40H) next time. That motor is working very well for me.

[mrasmm]

Maybe this will help. Ceramic caps do not have a polarity, so it does not matter which leg you mount to which polarity. Only electrolytic caps have polarity. The other thing is you want to figure out which should be the positive lead and which should be the negitive lead on the motor. Verify this by hooking it up to a AA battery or to and noting which way it spins and which way it should. Once you have that figured out make sure to solder the cap onto the can, and leave the leg of the cap that is hooked to the negative post long. You will solder this to the side of the can. The purpose of this cap is to reduce RFI and EMF, and if you don't solder the negative side to the can, then it wont work.

As for the motors, check the resistance with a MM (multimeter), and see what they both run. If they are about the same, it will probably be fine. Also make sure to break them in before you use them.

Hope this helps,
mrasmm

PS in the future I would get the one with holes in it, because it allows for better ventalation. Temp is the #1 factor, after improper or no break-in, with premature motor failure. Plus it looks like the one with the vent already has the cap on it =), just one less thing to worry about. Does the vented motor have a negative ground from the pole to the side of the can?

[slikrx]

Maybe this will help. Ceramic caps do not have a polarity, so it does not matter which leg you mount to which polarity. Only electrolytic caps have polarity. The other thing is you want to figure out which should be the positive lead and which should be the negitive lead on the motor. Verify this by hooking it up to a AA battery or to and noting which way it spins and which way it should. Once you have that figured out make sure to solder the cap onto the can, and leave the leg of the cap that is hooked to the negative post long. You will solder this to the side of the can. The purpose of this cap is to reduce RFI and EMF, and if you don't solder the negative side to the can, then it wont work.

As for the motors, check the resistance with a MM (multimeter), and see what they both run. If they are about the same, it will probably be fine. Also make sure to break them in before you use them.

Hope this helps,
mrasmm

PS in the future I would get the one with holes in it, because it allows for better ventalation. Temp is the #1 factor, after improper or no break-in, with premature motor failure. Plus it looks like the one with the vent already has the cap on it =), just one less thing to worry about. Does the vented motor have a negative ground from the pole to the side of the can?

Thanks for the info!!

I mounted the one that was pre-assembled (and had the vents) It did NOT have the capacitor soldered to the can. :DOH

Unfortunately, when I ordered, I didn't get any choice about with/without vent holes. CLICK for LINK (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWSEDP50H)

I *did* do a water break in (hooked it up to a AA, immersed it, without propeller in Distilled water and ran it for 1 hour)

I only flew with it for 1 1/2 batteries before I crashed it. I recently installed a G90 gyro AND did the DD mod, so I'm not sure where the control issue was (gyro bad or DD tail bad). I should get the last of my needed repair parts this week and should have some better info this weekend.

[mrasmm]

Oh, I was under the impression that you had bought the two motors from two different vendors.

That's kinda weird that it wasn't soldered to the can. If you are getting glitching problems, or just want to be sure, I would solder something from the negative lead to the can.

I have heard mixed ideas on the "water" break in. Break-in, or rather seating the brushes on the commutator, is a great idea. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, or trying to point anything out, but rather just sharing what I have read. Most people have no idea why do the water break-in, and they say that you need to break it in, just don't do it in water. I found a post somewhere where a guy explained the "water" breakin came from slot car racing where they needed an engine to preform "hotter" rather than for a long time. That is why they did the water break-in. A regular break-in makes it not run quite as hot (from what this guy said anyways), but rather makes it last a long time.

I have the ICE charger. What I've done for my break-in (and it's probably excessive) is run the motor starting at 1 or 1.5 volts, run it for 20 min and then move it up 0.5 volts until I get to 3 volts. That makes it so when I first start out I get less arching and commutator burn, and allows for a total breakin time of around an hour and a half. It also is useful with the ICE charger because I can see how many amps the motor is drawing. At first it will draw alot more amps, and when the brushes seat it will draw a much lower amperage.

BTW good review on the skids over at heli-fever. Some people asked me about upgrading the weak frame and I pointed them to your review. =)

[seume]

I had the same thing happen to me when ordering through tower hobbies. Same part number with what looks like the same two motors you received however I ordered two of the same previously and got two with the black end bell caps. This time I got one black and one gray.

[slikrx]

An update here, with some interesting results...

For the first motor, I used the one that was already soldered together with the 2 vents. I did a water break-in.

The motor lasted about 20 minutes wirh just mild hovering around.

Assuming it was my boneheadedness (and maybe the water break-in) I ordered another pair of motors from Horizon Hobbies, hoping to get a pair of motors that were pre-soldered together.

Well, not so much. I recieved a SECOND set of different motors (same as the first oddball pair)

THIS time I used a DC powersupply and did a 1.5 volt for 15 minutes and 3 volts for 15 minutes, all dry. (and because of my situation, both were without heatsinks)

And here's the really intersting bit: The can with the vent got pretty warm at 1.5 volts and rather hot at 3 volts. (I'd say right on the ragged edge of 140-150F) :thinking

When doing the same on the can I had to solder, it got just barely warm at 1.5 volts, and slighty warm at 3 volts. :shock:

Sooo, appearances MIGHT be decieving. I had already installed the vented can before the other motor was broken in, but it appears that the unvented generates less heat, AND may be more likely to last longer.

On my frankenchopper, this may all be acedemic, since I think I'll follow Buzzkill's lead and go brushless...

[Gino CP]

The EDP50-H isn't the motor used on the EDF40H. These motor will not last long with 11.1v. You need the CN12-RXC motor. This comes with the EDP050XC, EDF40H, and EDF50 series ducted fans.