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esmoglo
05-22-2011, 09:22 PM
Dude sorry for your little fire there but on the bright side it was not that bad. I have the CC120HV, CC100ICE, and CC75ICE all have over 40 flights and so far so good. I can say as a CC end user all the fires have made me rather nervous. The Kontronik Jive esc line looks like a superior product VS the CC. The price keeps me at bay though I cannot see spending $540 on a 120HV and after six months pay $15 bucks to update the firmware (as needed). Also what are the warrantees for the Kontronik ESC line? So for me to upgrade my fleets CC120, CC100ICE and CC75 ICE ESC’s and go with Kontronik it would cost me $1197 and I can’t see doing that at this stage.

Inverse
05-22-2011, 09:36 PM
I'll be factoring the cost of a Kontronic or YGE into any new heli builds I think.

dswitkin
05-22-2011, 10:47 PM
Has anyone ever plugged an ICE HV controller into the main flight pack _without_ connecting the ESC to the receiver or BEC? In other words, is it safe to connect a 10s pack to an ICE HV without a 5V input on the throttle lead? Obviously you can't fly like that, but I wonder what it would do.

PS - If you feel like testing this, please do it outside and not in a model, just in case.

Cailid
05-22-2011, 11:34 PM
More and more threads appearing about CC esc's catching fire and not one CC rep replying to them.:face


Looks like CC is quickly becoming the esc NOT to get.

I don't care if they'll replace the ESC for free when my $1000+ heli is sitting there in a charred heap and they won't do squat about it even though it was their esc that destroyed it.

Rªzª
05-23-2011, 12:00 AM
another scorpion kills another castle :roll: happened to a friend of mine at my field too. the scorpion flamed up 2 brand new castle 80hv's

before trying another esc I'd ditch the scorpion. not sure I'd ever trust them after going through that (I was flying the heli both times when the esc went up in flames) :FThat

tptompkins
05-23-2011, 12:08 AM
Dude sorry for your little fire there but on the bright side it was not that bad. I have the CC120HV, CC100ICE, and CC75ICE all have over 40 flights and so far so good. I can say as a CC end user all the fires have made me rather nervous. The Kontronik Jive esc line looks like a superior product VS the CC. The price keeps me at bay though I cannot see spending $540 on a 120HV and after six months pay $15 bucks to update the firmware (as needed). Also what are the warrantees for the Kontronik ESC line? So for me to upgrade my fleets CC120, CC100ICE and CC75 ICE ESC’s and go with Kontronik it would cost me $1197 and I can’t see doing that at this stage.

Another option is to replace your ICE 100 or ICE 75 with the older CC Phoenix ESC. They don't have logging, but were known to be bullet proof and super reliable. This is the exact reason why I picked up two Phoenix 125s for my 550s last November and they've been rock solid. You can still program them using Castle Link just like an ICE. They don't have an HV version of the Phoenix though unfortunately so in that case you should probably go with a Hobbywing Platinum, YGE, or Kontronik.

Tommy

gothicbunny
05-23-2011, 12:12 AM
another scorpion kills another castle
Conspiracy by Scorpion to promote their ESC's? Not quite sure why people are against the new Commander v2's or is it just the poor governor mode in the older models?

Laddy
05-23-2011, 12:38 AM
Someone needs to come out with "ESC Bag" like the Lipo charging bags. :)

Inverse
05-23-2011, 01:32 AM
Would this work?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/desmogod/ccbin.jpg

Cailid
05-23-2011, 01:35 AM
Would this work?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/desmogod/ccbin.jpg


:rotf

Laddy
05-23-2011, 01:37 AM
:)

scm6079
05-23-2011, 01:57 AM
More and more threads appearing about CC esc's catching fire and not one CC rep replying to them.:face


Looks like CC is quickly becoming the esc NOT to get.

I don't care if they'll replace the ESC for free when my $1000+ heli is sitting there in a charred heap and they won't do squat about it even though it was their esc that destroyed it.

CC did reply to my post on this topic over at rc groups. This is what they said:


ICE 120HV Failures
The Castle team has noted a number of reports of failure of our Phoenix 120HV in the field. We do our best to design and build brushless motor controllers that outperform all others in this industry. While no failures are acceptable, our records indicate that this controller’s actual rate of return – for any reason – are quite low.

We have not been able to determine any particular cause for the failures that we have studied. The common thread amongst them appears to be increased stress on the controllers’ capacitors. Unfortunately, this can result from any number of reasons including:
• battery condition & performance
• length and type of wire between the ESC and the batteries
• condition of the solder joints in the wire harness
• quality of connectors used
• flying style

We are always working to improve our controllers, and we are looking at a number of measures that may assist the 120HV’s ability to operate even with the worst of conditions described above.

In the interim we suggest that users:
• use high performance batteries that are stabilized at room temperature or above before flight
• use connectors rated for 120 amps continuous operation, such as 5mm bullets
• keep the wiring harness as short as possible
• mount the controller on the rear deck of the heli whenever possible to improve cooling.



Patrick del Castillo, president
Castle Creations, Inc.




-Scott

flyinghigh450
05-23-2011, 07:09 AM
I might not ever buy another electric and ive been eyeing the new Chaos 700E big time that come's with a HV120/Scorpion combo .Was VERY happy with my ICE 100 in the 600E but wayyyy too many thread's popping up with burning Castle controllers in the past few month's :bawl .The Castle's fit the bill for someone like me that doesn't have the $$ for a Kontronic as they seem to be the only fire proof esc out now.Seen a HobbyWing shoot flames out on a brand new heli at out club yesterday and it took out a brand new TP 45C pack :bawl .I want a 90 size heli BAD but don't have the $$ to keep fuel in a nitro and electric seem's cheaper for a 90 size.I have a new Trex 700N that I bought everything for and still waiting to pick it up.I jumped the gun getting it as I didn't think about what it was like keeping fuel in my 2 Raptor 90's.LOVED flying 90's but was forced to sale as I couldn't keep fuel in them..After jumping the gun buying everything needed to make the 700N RTF,I wanted to sale it and get a 700E but man,not sure that will even happen now.Last thing I need is the esc to flame out :thumbdown: .Was all for Castle a few week's ago but been seeing WAYYY too many HV120's flaming.This really blows :thumbdown: ..

bathmagic
05-23-2011, 07:12 AM
I have had the exact same thing happen to me about 3 weeks ago

Your right in saying if it was in flight the machine would be a write off

Surely there is some sort of "cost" , not just the speed controller for begin supplied a defective and or dangerous product ??

WBFAir
05-23-2011, 07:40 AM
I think one of things that puzzles me the most on all these failures is how theses ESC's seem to go from working perfectly well to bursting into flames with absolutely no warning.

In other words, normally for most electrical equipment, even solid state stuff, if something is failing from a over load or over heating, you typically see some type of warning signs such as smoke or some type of thing where you can physically see it was getting to hot, and/or the device its operating isn't working to well.


But with all the reports I have seen, it's always, everything was just perfect....no drop in power, no change in motor pitch noise. No "I could tell something might have been wrong as when it came down on the previous flight that the heat sink or motor or packs were very hot, or, I thought I smelled some thing funny when I replaced that pack.

So far it seems like in all of these reports there is none of that but more, everything was fine one second and then BOOM, flames.

Which not that I'm trying to say this is what is actually happening here, but for my experience, this is usually what happens from a short more often.

One thing I sorta keep asking on a lot of these posts is, has anyone ever been doing any checking of the logging stuff for the temp readings to see if there is any increase in this?

I mean I don't know if where or how their reader works is going to pick up on what the issues there are these are having, but it would be interesting to see if any one were to show some unusually high temp readings for some reason.

Also, has anyone who ever has called Castle ever asked as to what temp readings they should be seeing?

Would be nice much like there amp specs/limits were if we knew what the temp ones were too.

I suppose the same monitoring question could be asked about some of the other readings too such as the amperage and things like that.

Although grated I know that a toasted ESC can not be used for this but for me, I would think it would be a good idea to retrieve the logs a bit more often if I was using a model/version that I was concerned about.

As well even more so I would be really on this is I had one that had flamed on a helo and used a replacement.

Ultimately too, I would then be using these numbers to try to compare them to fellow helo owners of relative similar equipment to all just to see if there is any preliminary degrading going on.

jamin_00
05-23-2011, 08:20 AM
"ICE 120HV Failures
The Castle team has noted a number of reports of failure of our Phoenix 120HV in the field. We do our best to design and build brushless motor controllers that outperform all others in this industry. While no failures are acceptable, our records indicate that this controller’s actual rate of return – for any reason – are quite low."


I bet most throw them in the bin and cut their losses :(

Gadflyii
05-23-2011, 09:06 AM
I am just a surprized that they still have not fixed the issue.

With the CC HV120 shipping on many new kits, and the new Align HV 600 shipping with the HV80 I fear that the number of "Castle Creamations" threads (not just on here, but worldwide) will continue to increase.

I really have not idea what which ESC to buy anymore...

DannyvG
05-23-2011, 09:30 AM
something that has been mentioned before, it seems that a lot of the failures of CC's are with Scorpion motors and possibly also Align motors. And I also see problems with Scorpions and Jives often, but Jives dont burst into flames instead they come down with 8 blinking lights that indicate your amps peaked over 260A. And the Jive has a special mode for align motors.
So, is CC really to blame... apparantly it is possible to build in a failsafe (Jive)

nightflyr
05-23-2011, 09:39 AM
something that has been mentioned before, it seems that a lot of the failures of CC's are with Scorpion motors and possibly also Align motors. And I also see problems with Scorpions and Jives often, but Jives dont burst into flames instead they come down with 8 blinking lights that indicate your amps peaked over 260A. And the Jive has a special mode for align motors.
So, is CC really to blame... apparantly it is possible to build in a failsafe (Jive)


it's been posted ..NOT to run Scorpion motors with the CC outrunner mode

Cailid
05-23-2011, 10:39 AM
CC did reply to my post on this topic over at rc groups. This is what they said:



-Scott

So basically CC is blaming everyones products but their own. Spoken like true politicians.:bs

Cailid
05-23-2011, 10:42 AM
"ICE 120HV Failures
The Castle team has noted a number of reports of failure of our Phoenix 120HV in the field. We do our best to design and build brushless motor controllers that outperform all others in this industry. While no failures are acceptable, our records indicate that this controller’s actual rate of return – for any reason – are quite low."


I bet most throw them in the bin and cut their losses :(

I'd rather just throw it in the garbage can too. Why bother getting it replaced with another one that can end up destroying another heli that you have to pay for out of your own pocket.

Starcruiser
05-23-2011, 12:02 PM
get it replaced and sell it.

My next motor might be a NEU or Viper for the larger heli

Pretorian435
05-23-2011, 12:07 PM
I will never buy a Castle, way too many fires...

snjbird
05-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Just out of curiosity, was the ESC armed when it burst or just powered up and not armed?

flypilot
05-23-2011, 01:53 PM
Just to add a perspective...I've seen 3 kontroniks burn as well...so it is not CC exclusive..
We have 3 Trex 700e's at our field, all with 120HV and none have had any explosions.....yet ;) :thumbup:

just saying...