Actual Field Results - Spektrum 2.4Ghz Modules

[Danal Estes]

It was my great privilege on Saturday Mar 10 2007 to helicopter flight test a Spektrum module in an existing radio. Test occurred at 114th RC club field in Grapevine Texas.

Short version: It just works.

Longer version:

Transmitter: JR9303

Helicopter: Logo 10 "Extreme". This is a Logo 10 (500mm blade) helicopter with custom carbon frames and a special bevel 2:1 gearbox that allows the Hacker C50-13L to turn 41,000 RPM on 6S 4000 mAh LiPo while maintaining a flight head speed of approx. 2100 RPM. Results in an incredible power/weight ratio with the legendary quality of Mikado Logo mechanics. I've had this setup for about 2 years and always flown it on the JR 9303.

Electronics on heli: JR 770 PCM receiver; JR DS3421MG servos, GY401 and 9254 on tail; Schulze Future 18.46K ESC; Koolflight UBEC (5V).

Swap procedure: Put AR7000 receiver on top of 790 (photos soon); moved servo plugs to 'same' sockets; put satellite receiver on tail boom. Receiver had been previously bound to module, so no need to do that. Put module in transmitter; changed modulation to PPM. No other changes. In particular, no trim, no subtrim, etc. Checked all control movements, everything was correct, all throws correct and so forth. No setup changes (beyond PCM>PPM) at all.

Conducted back-back flights on 72MHz and 2.4GHz. Weather was perfect; dead calm and 70 degrees

Flight impressions: Did a very slow spool up and takeoff, just to triple-check controls; then just "went for it" with high speed forward flight, high bank turns, funnels, flips, loops, all to test for aggressive inputs. Then some very smooth hovers to test for precision input. Then a bit of "jump it around" collective pumping and playing with quick rolls, etc. Then just flew it...

Very little if any noticeable difference. Rock solid control. I might convince myself that small/quick corrections were easier and/or faster... or that could just be expectation. Definitely no perceptible difference in latency.

Just for reference, when I switched my Trex 600 from 9303/JR790 to DX7, my first aerobatic maneuver on the 7 resulted in an odd exit, and a bit of pilot-induced-oscillation in the recovery, because I was noticeably "ahead" of the heli. Got used to the quickness during the first flight; no long term issues. An absolute and very clearly perceptible difference between the two radios (no matter what the pundits in the forums say about humans and milliseconds).

That same effect did not occur during the PCM to DSM2 swap. No measurable change in "anticipation" for maneuvers. Rock solid both ways; as mentioned, perhaps the tiniest bit better on DSM2, perhaps the air was just "more perfect" on that flight.

My Conclusions: Easy swap. Drop in replacement. No setup changes. Very nice rig, brings all the advantages of "no pin/card" flying to the great software/setup of the 9303.




On a personal note, "Thank You" to Paul Beard of Spektrum and to Larry Hilgert for letting a non-"team pilot" try the module.

[Danal Estes]

Various pics of the flight test

[Georg Matthews]

Very nice review.
Thanks

[Danal Estes]

Andy at Aero Hobbies called and said my Spektrum Module and RX arrived.

I couldn't get them tonight, he's closed Wed, and I'm moving Thu. Maybe Friday.

Personal frustration aside, THEY"VE SHIPPED!

[Ah Clem]

I saw the module and 9 channel reciever yesterday for $300.00. I was very tempted, but did not buy it.

I will try to restrain myself until they are in widespread use.

[Roryw]

I have the module in my PCM 9x2, which is the same as the 9303. I love it, 2.4 security and no antenna in my periferal vision is fantastic. The field where i fly has many glitches and has taken many models with it. No more !!

I put in a 6100 rx v1.2 in a foamy 3D. Flew it as high as i could see, no problems with range. I would say 150m + up, i guess thats about 450 feet ??

I am doing some other tests with a Sokol pylon racer soon as well as my Trex 450SE.

Rory :mrgreen:
I am happy with the purchase.

[Fall2Fast]

5 flights with a raptor 50 that glitches with Fm PCM, 7000rx, no troubles here either.

Is anyone concerned about that coax cable catching on something?

[DavidH]

If your Raptor 50 glitched/lockouted on PCM. I would suggest looking for something wrong in the heli. I would sure be checking bearings and metal parts that could be producing RF. Something is on the verge of failing if you were glitching before you switched to 2.4 ghz

David

[Fall2Fast]

David i went through it changing a lot of things, even the engine, and could not locate it, i gave up on it, I even had a few others take a shot at it, still could not find anything, we swapped the head with main shaft, installed cermaic main shaft bearings, different clutch bell and bearings... :arggg: I do agree with you, and I am not doing any close hovering with this one. Ironically this is one that has never been crashed. I have one other 50 and a 30 that i was using for parts. I also installed 3 different receivers, the last one is the new R2000 PCM, that would give me lock outs. Thanks for the advice.

[Danal Estes]

I've now put mine in a 9303 and the 9 chan RX in a Logo 10. Couple of flights (lousy weather in North Texas) and all working well.

RE: The Coax. I'm working on an antenna mod that should be very simple. About half done. Stay tuned. (sorry, couldn't resist). I'll post photos if this works out...

[Fall2Fast]

Danal, I was looking at mine also... I see that it is crimped in with a screw, there has to be a better way. Please keep us posted.
I flew my good raptor 50, set up the gov no prob and have it using a mix in flight mode for 2 different rpms, i took it way up there and did not loose any signals, working great so far.

[ClayK]

David i went through it changing a lot of things, even the engine, and could not locate it, i gave up on it, I even had a few others take a shot at it, still could not find anything, we swapped the head with main shaft, installed cermaic main shaft bearings, different clutch bell and bearings... :arggg: I do agree with you, and I am not doing any close hovering with this one. Ironically this is one that has never been crashed. I have one other 50 and a 30 that i was using for parts. I also installed 3 different receivers, the last one is the new R2000 PCM, that would give me lock outs. Thanks for the advice.

Did you swap the receiver? Removed the carbon base plate? Check servo leads and other leads, etc?

[Fall2Fast]

Clay
swapped receiver a few times, did check servo leads, changed power switch, however... I did NOT remove the carbon base plate, and I use machine screws in place of the TT ones. So you think that could be it? You know that may be it! even those machine screws loosen slightly after a while, and there is no glitching spooling up, only until in the air. My other 50 that runs fantastic does NOT have the brace, and I was going to install one tonight....
wow if that was it you have no idea how many of us were messing with it... even had some pros look at that one.

you know I am going to install the FM rx and try it just so I know! I am in Cleveland, OH and going to MD this weekend for a funfly, so I may not have time this week.
Thanks

[ClayK]

I'll be at MHA, look me up if you are there. I'll be the red-headed guy with a HF shirt on the entire weekend. If you find DebianDog, he'll probably know where I'm at.

[Fall2Fast]

clay I will do that! actually I crashed that one today, not bad, just a hard landing and boom strike, already fixed it. You can't miss us we are going to be on a yellow motorcycle with a hillbilly trailer :glasses2: I should get there early afternoon Friday. see you then :lolol

[Rocket Man]

I am running the Spektrum module in my JR PCM10X, the 9 channel RX in my 90SE, a 7 channel RX in my Raptor 50T, and another 7 channel RX in my T-Rex 600.

After binding and range testing, I have been running these since the first of May with zero problems.

BTW - the Model Match feature DOES work on my 10X. For some reason, Spektrum says this feature is not available, but if I punch in code 84 and change models, the receiver will go into Fail safe. I'm not sure about Servo Synch and am probably not good enough to notice the difference (if any) on the T-Rex.

The only hassle I have is the gyro channel is Aux 3 on the 10X and the AR7000 doesn't have enough channels for me to use this directly. So I just set up a mix (code 51) on the 10X to lower the gyro gain in Idle up for my Raptor 50 and the T-Rex.

Ron

[Danal Estes]

BTW - the Model Match feature DOES work on my 10X. For some reason, Spektrum says this feature is not available, but if I punch in code 84 and change models, the receiver will go into Fail safe.

Ron, both the "From" and "To" model in that scenario set to PPM modulation? Not PCM?

[Rocket Man]

Ron, both the "From" and "To" model in that scenario set to PPM modulation? Not PCM?

That is correct. If I tried to switch the transmitter from the Raptor 90 to the Raptor 50, the Raptor 90 would go into fail safe.

My "test" was very simple: I switched on the Raptor 90, verified it was working correctly, then shoved the collective to full. I punched up the menu code 84 and selected the Raptor 50. As soon as I hit the "Enter" key, the Raptor 90 collective dropped to low and the servos locked in fail safe mode. When I selected the Raptor 90 and hit Enter, the collective jumped back up and the servos came alive again.

I still try to verify that I'm using the correct heli when I fly, but this was very good news for me.

Take care,

Ron

[DavidH]

My "test" was very simple: I switched on the Raptor 90, verified it was working correctly, then shoved the collective to full. I punched up the menu code 84 and selected the Raptor 50. As soon as I hit the "Enter" key, the Raptor 90 collective dropped to low and the servos locked in fail safe mode. When I selected the Raptor 90 and hit Enter, the collective jumped back up and the servos came alive again

Model match is a different than what your describing.

Try this test. Put the transmitter on like the Rap 90 model and then bind it to the Rap 50 model. I would think your transmitter and module will allow that to happen.

The way Model Match works, it will not allow the transmitter to be on one model and then bind to the reciever that is a different model from the transmitter.

The way your test works is it just will not let you be on the wrong model after you have initially did the bind between transmitter and receiver. I would think you could still bind between one model in the transmitter and an opposite flying model.

David

[Fall2Fast]

I have tried this with my 9303 and it does transmit to the wrong model without having to re bind. I still have had no troubles at all using the AR7000 with it. later this week I am going take the Raptor 90SE out with the AR9000. Speaking of the 90, this one has digital servos in it, and unlike the 50s, I do feel it has a faster reponse time. then again at my level its faster than me for sure!!!

[Rocket Man]

Model match is a different than what your describing.

Try this test. Put the transmitter on like the Rap 90 model and then bind it to the Rap 50 model. I would think your transmitter and module will allow that to happen.

The way Model Match works, it will not allow the transmitter to be on one model and then bind to the reciever that is a different model from the transmitter.

The way your test works is it just will not let you be on the wrong model after you have initially did the bind between transmitter and receiver. I would think you could still bind between one model in the transmitter and an opposite flying model.

David

David,

Sorry, but you are confusing me. First of all, the transmitter is producing the GUID, so it's the Receiver that gets bound to the Transmitter. Your third paragraph sounds backwards to me. I could bind any Spektrum receiver to my transmitter and it should work fine.

IIRC, Model Match is simply sending a second piece of info from the Transmitter to the receiver that not only has the GUID, but also includes the model name. If I call my heli "Elvis" and bind a receiver to it, it will work. But if I try to control a receiver with a different name, even using that same GUID, it should not work.

That may be too simple an explanation. Feel free to PM me with more info if I missed your point.

Take care,

Ron

[Danal Estes]

Actually... model match works by having a separate GUID for each memory.

So, whatever is going on with the 10X, it's not model match. It may be providing a similar safety effect, but it is a little different (and, until we understand it, I wouldn't depend on it...)

[DavidH]

BTW - the Model Match feature DOES work on my 10X. For some reason, Spektrum says this feature is not available, but if I punch in code 84 and change models, the receiver will go into Fail safe

You said Model Match works on your 10X with the Spektrum 2.4 module and receiver.

If it does work, then you can not do what I said to do in this test.

Try this test. Put the transmitter on like the Rap 90 model and then bind it to the Rap 50 model. I would think your transmitter and module will allow that to happen.


I could bind any Spektrum receiver to my transmitter and it should work fine.


Yes you can do that. But with the Model Match, it will only allow the reciever that has already been bound to a certain model to bind with that model. With model match if your on the wrong model and try to bind the receiver for a different model. It will not allow it to happen.

I don't think your 10X will do Model match. Just as you said above, you can bind any Spektrum receiver to your transmitter. So if your transmitter is on the Rap 90 model, Then your going to fly the Rap 50 model. Once you turn on the transmitter and bind the receiver on the Rap 50. You would be able to fly the Rap 50 on the the wrong model in the transmitter. If the 10X will model match, it would not allow that to even happen in the first place.

That is my understanding how Model Match works.

David

[Rocket Man]

Actually... model match works by having a separate GUID for each memory.

So, whatever is going on with the 10X, it's not model match. It may be providing a similar safety effect, but it is a little different (and, until we understand it, I wouldn't depend on it...)

Danal,

Yes, that is also my understanding of model match.

I don't want to cause any more controversy, so I'll stop calling it by any name. I am just very happy to know that my JR 10X/Spektrum would not let me accidentally fly my Raptor 50 using the settings for the Raptor 90, even though both receivers had been bound to that transmitter. It's a feature I was not expecting with the new modules.

I still recommend that you double check the transmitter and model EVERY time you go out to fly. I think we can all agree with that statement. :lol:

Take care,

Ron

[DavidH]

I am just very happy to know that my JR 10X/Spektrum would not let me accidentally fly my Raptor 50 using the settings for the Raptor 90, even though both receivers had been bound to that transmitter

Will your transmitter with the Spektrum module allow you to do this?

Have the transmitter on the Raptor 90 model and then turn on the Raptor 50 and be able to control it some? Can you bind between the two?
Can this be done accidentally? In other words if you didn't notice the transmitter was on the Raptor 90 model and you bound it to the Rap 50 on start up?

True Model Match will not let this happen. I do agree once everything is powered up that you can't switch between models accidentally and make them work.

David