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heliaddict2424
05-23-2011, 01:50 PM
So Jason was at Apollo field this weekend and got some interesting opinions on the XXtreme from some Align pilots (pretty much all Align at Apollo). It seems sometimes we may need to look outside of our Mikado bubble that we live in and here what other pilots who fly other helis think. Now I know that Align and Mikado are in different classes IMHO but I am not going there don't need another discussion about who makes a better heli (we all know the answer there:)) The words that were mentioned about the XXtreme were "big,ugly,slow,expensive and so on". All they could talk about was how great the Trex 700e is. Now I realize that when you fly a certain brand of heli you tend to bad mouth all others but I just found it interesting what the other side thinks. I know that when people see the XXtreme in person they may have the same thoughts but until you see it fly hold your opinions. Mikado simply does not have the Align mentality of mass marketing and producing a cheaper more profitable heli. They strive for excellence and quality and a proven solid performing heli. So we may have to pay more and we may have to wait longer than everyone else but in the end you get what you pay for and I can't wait to show up at a field with bunch of Align pilots and there Trex 700e and prove what the XXtreme is really all about. Ok that being said Mikado does need to fill the hole for a 700 class heli and I think the domination will be complete.:peace

ClubCRASH
05-23-2011, 03:31 PM
Did the Align guys talk about Align 800 stretch kit...that scares the hell out of me. Align has quality problems with the 700 and now they want to install 800mm blades on it....MOVE OUT. Never say a vid of Align with 800mm blades. At least with the Logo we know it works great.

heliaddict2424
05-23-2011, 04:56 PM
Did the Align guys talk about Align 800 stretch

:face

worldofmaya
05-23-2011, 05:17 PM
I'm flying both and like both... okay my most wouldn't recognise my t700e as Align. And I already installed my 800-boom :peace but only to be able to use some bigger tail blades :bad
Bashing a model just because it's another brand is ridiculous :Slap there's enough sky for all of us.
-Klaus

marcosp
05-23-2011, 05:27 PM
Yeap, I agree, to each his own. The 700E flies nice, with a V-Bar... and for 100 flights then they start squeeking here and there... and with some other upgrades... and 2200+ rpm... and... well. It flies nice, period. Not bashing here, I like it's looks mostly, and like seeing my friends fly them.

Also agree the looks of the Exxtreme are strange. I like it quite a bit, but it reminds me a lot of Bergens and of Alien (the movie).

100% agree, we need a true 700 Mikado. Maybe from the SE and the Exxtreme we get a nice born child in between!!

heliaddict2424
05-23-2011, 05:45 PM
Let me clear this up right away I am not bashing Align they make good products for the price period. The hand over the face smiley was because I had never herd of Align stretching a 700 to an 800 and if they do they are obviously worried about the XXtreme. No more bashing..:...:

worldofmaya
05-23-2011, 06:02 PM
Stretching a T700e [or better custom T700-based builds] isn't something new year... we have quit a lot of Henseleit TDR-clones based on mainly Align-parts which were stretched to real 800s. Just search for Suzi-Janis or TDRex on Youtube & Co.
The Align boom is too short for 800mm blades by the way. Anyway... the T700 with 800 upgrade isn't a 800, the same as a Logo 600SE isn't a 700-class machine. And I too agree, a real 700 would be cool but I don't think Mikado will offer one, at least not in the near future.
-Klaus

Justin Pucci
05-23-2011, 09:53 PM
While I can't find it now, I do recall reading in an official press release that the Align 800mm stretch kit was NOT meant to support sport/3D flying, but instead was specifically designed to make the 700e capable of supporting AP needs.

Furthermore, I think I also read something similar with regard to the XXTreme, right? I can't find that one either, of course... :( All that having been said, we all know that there will be people out there that will put 800's on one of them and beat it like it owes them money. Safe? Probably not, but to be expected? Definitely... Based on my current understanding, the only helis that are currently available and either will or already have the ability to swing 800's for 3D are the TDR and the one in my signature... (Shape 9.0 Rigid 800mm stretch kit should available soon). :thumbup:

Maybe the XXTreme should be added to that list? Dave/Kyle, what do you think?

To some of the others' points, Align may not be viewed in the same light as companies like Mikado or MA, but one thing is for sure: They have got it right. It may have taken them a few years to work out the kinks and quality issues (and let's face it, all companies have quality escapes even after they've worked out the kinks), but they are hitting the market hard with the 700E and will blast the market with the 600E Pro once it's released.

The 700E is still the benchmark against which most people compare all other 90 electrics for pure power and smackability. The 600SE doesn't compare (nor did Mikado intend for it to) and since we're all probably right about Mikado not doing a Logo 700, it's most likely that they've targeted the 700E feel with the XXTreme, but in their own unique, high-end market kind of way. ;)

Just my 2 cents...

Cheers,
-->J

heliaddict2424
05-23-2011, 10:24 PM
The XXtreme was designed to swing 800,s out of the box and does full 3d you should watch some of videos of Kyle Dahl abusing it. The Trex 700e is just that a 700 it was designed to be a 700 so stretching it still does not make it and 800 just wanted to clear that up.

While I can't find it now, I do recall reading in an official press release that the Align 800mm stretch kit was NOT meant to support sport/3D flying, but instead was specifically designed to make the 700e capable of supporting AP needs.

Furthermore, I think I also read something similar with regard to the XXTreme, right? I can't find that one either, of course... :( All that having been said, we all know that there will be people out there that will put 800's on one of them and beat it like it owes them money. Safe? Probably not, but to be expected? Definitely... Based on my current understanding, the only helis that are currently available and either will or already have the ability to swing 800's for 3D are the TDR and the one in my signature... (Shape 9.0 Rigid 800mm stretch kit should available soon). :thumbup:

Maybe the XXTreme should be added to that list? Dave/Kyle, what do you think?

To some of the others' points, Align may not be viewed in the same light as companies like Mikado or MA, but one thing is for sure: They have got it right. It may have taken them a few years to work out the kinks and quality issues (and let's face it, all companies have quality escapes even after they've worked out the kinks), but they are hitting the market hard with the 700E and will blast the market with the 600E Pro once it's released.

The 700E is still the benchmark against which most people compare all other 90 electrics for pure power and smackability. The 600SE doesn't compare (nor did Mikado intend for it to) and since we're all probably right about Mikado not doing a Logo 700, it's most likely that they've targeted the 700E feel with the XXTreme, but in their own unique, high-end market kind of way. ;)

Just my 2 cents...

Cheers,
-->J

Justin Pucci
05-23-2011, 10:39 PM
The XXtreme was designed to swing 800,s out of the box and does full 3d you should watch some of videos of Kyle Dahl abusing it. The Trex 700e is just that a 700 it was designed to be a 700 so stretching it still does not make it and 800 just wanted to clear that up.

heliaddict2424,

I understand that it was designed to swing 800's in the stock configuration, but I thought that I had heard that the 800mm configuration was mainly intended to be used in AP applications...I may be wrong. Can you post a link to a video of the XXTreme on 800's doing 3D? I watched some of Kyle's vids, but unless I missed it, I had thought that they were all on 700mm blades. Thanks! :)

GimpyGolden
05-23-2011, 10:49 PM
All the vids have been on 800mm
I don't think Kyle has run anything but 14S 800's as of yet.
I would like to see how it does as a 12S 700 though, it would make the purchase less painful to re-use some gear from my other birds.

garfieldhummer
05-23-2011, 11:03 PM
heliaddict2424,

I understand that it was designed to swing 800's in the stock configuration, but I thought that I had heard that the 800mm configuration was mainly intended to be used in AP applications...I may be wrong. Can you post a link to a video of the XXTreme on 800's doing 3D? I watched some of Kyle's vids, but unless I missed it, I had thought that they were all on 700mm blades. Thanks! :)

This is the railer of XXtreme
http://vimeo.com/22929247

and here is the raw one
http://vimeo.com/23029151

However, two things need to be mentioned,

One is that this heli runs on 1700rpm in the movie which not reached the designed performence of 1900rpm. Another is that it is flight by kyle, his style is little bit soft, of course accurate and smooth, and I cannot tell the smackability just from this video.

Justin Pucci
05-23-2011, 11:06 PM
Oh wow! :D That's awesome! I didn't realize that they were all on 800's. I can't wait to see the XXTreme in person... The next opportunity for me will be at IRCHA. :thumbup: It's coming soon...

philipfrank
05-23-2011, 11:18 PM
So Jason was at Apollo field this weekend and got some interesting opinions on the XXtreme from some Align pilots (pretty much all Align at Apollo). It seems sometimes we may need to look outside of our Mikado bubble that we live in and here what other pilots who fly other helis think. Now I know that Align and Mikado are in different classes IMHO but I am not going there don't need another discussion about who makes a better heli (we all know the answer there:)) The words that were mentioned about the XXtreme were "big,ugly,slow,expensive and so on". All they could talk about was how great the Trex 700e is. Now I realize that when you fly a certain brand of heli you tend to bad mouth all others but I just found it interesting what the other side thinks. I know that when people see the XXtreme in person they may have the same thoughts but until you see it fly hold your opinions. Mikado simply does not have the Align mentality of mass marketing and producing a cheaper more profitable heli. They strive for excellence and quality and a proven solid performing heli. So we may have to pay more and we may have to wait longer than everyone else but in the end you get what you pay for and I can't wait to show up at a field with bunch of Align pilots and there Trex 700e and prove what the XXtreme is really all about. Ok that being said Mikado does need to fill the hole for a 700 class heli and I think the domination will be complete.:peace

these people you desribe almost always have very little experience in the hobby. they were not around when we still flew mechanical gyro's on old stacked frame xcell's. Since they have been in the hobby align has always been around, so to them, it's all they've known. Plus 99% of the people have zero experience in the aerospace industry so they would not know a good design for a helicopter anymore than a house wife. they don't know the difference between a 'good' helicopter and a 'great' helicopter.

they think they do, but they don't. align is ok and decent but far from great. it's cheap for a reason. i've owned 3 align heli's along with others including a fury extreme, robbe futura se and others along with a logo se currently. there is a reason that after 14 years i now fly a logo. if you want cheap go cheap but don't knock helicopters that are quite obviously far superior in design and flight characteristics.

but they will because they know no better. something to keep in mind when you hear the things you describe.

heliaddict2424
05-23-2011, 11:33 PM
Yes Kyle has only flown it as an 800 on 14s and to see it in person will blow your mind trust me I could not wipe the grin off my face. Watch the video again and listen to those 800's.

http://vimeo.com/23029151

Oh wow! :D That's awesome! I didn't realize that they were all on 800's. I can't wait to see the XXTreme in person... The next opportunity for me will be at IRCHA. :thumbup: It's coming soon...

Ace Dude
05-24-2011, 10:08 PM
So Jason was at Apollo field this weekend and got some interesting opinions on the XXtreme from some Align pilots (pretty much all Align at Apollo).

Who cares what other pilots think? I certainly don't.

philipfrank
05-24-2011, 11:04 PM
if all they fly is align, what input would they really be able to provide?

heliaddict2424
05-24-2011, 11:19 PM
I was just making a point I never said I valued there input.:tongue

Ace Dude
05-25-2011, 01:10 AM
Then why start a thread about it?

heliaddict2424
05-25-2011, 01:25 AM
I started it because I thought there opinions were funny I wasn't asking for any other align pilots opinions just making an observation.


Then why start a thread about it?

GimpyGolden
05-25-2011, 08:54 AM
Some are just close-minded
Like the old Ford Vs Chev thing.

dahld
05-25-2011, 10:12 AM
Let's avoid getting into the whole XXtreme vs. a T-Rex 700 deal (or any other 700 for that matter). The two aren't very comparable.

It's like trying to compare a T-Rex 500 or 550 with a T-Rex 700.

Nobody really does that, as they know the two helis are different in size, cost, capability, and in the way they fly and handle. Anyone whose been around the hobby awhile "gets the differences", and knows debating which is "better" is a waste of time.

Now you can of course discuss those differences between a T-Rex 500/550 and a 700 (nothin' wrong with that), but to "compare them", and try and say one is better than the other...that's apples to oranges.

Comparing the XXtreme and "700" class helis is like that. We can rationally discuss the differences (there are many), but to "compare them" one to another, trying to say which is "best", is kind-of a waste of time.

(-: Dave

BruceHuang
05-25-2011, 06:48 PM
To look into this topic, I think why Mikado is expensive because it is manufactured in German. If it was manufactured in TW or in China mainland with quality control. I think the price would have cut down a lot. This is only a hobby, the mikado parts can be easily made in most place of the world, now 5 axis CNN machine is not very high tech now. If Align sales their products with Mikado price, I believe it will be very very good.

So, this whole thing is really down to the cost of labor, martial etc. As I said this is only a hobby. A lot of manufacture can achieve Mikado quality if the raise their product price and put a bit more money in developing. So it is like you pay more for better heli, if mikado cut their price down, they won't use better material because they get to make profit.

philipfrank
05-25-2011, 07:07 PM
you get what you pay for and it is blatantly obvous why a mikado would cost more than a t-rex.

if that isn't understood by someone then they have more issues than worrying about which helicopter to fly.

Luisito
05-25-2011, 08:31 PM
you get what you pay for and it is blatantly obvous why a mikado would cost more than a t-rex.

if that isn't understood by someone then they have more issues than worrying about which helicopter to fly.

Hi Phil,

Noticed you online. So now that you have had the chance to build your new 600SE and have seen my 550 and yours, what are your thoughts? How was the maiden?

I've been keeping an eye on the Logo brand for nearly 6 months and I'm contemplating either holding out for the XXTreme or getting the 600SE. May go with the 600SE since I'll need to get an SUV.

Luis