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stark
06-07-2011, 06:54 AM
Hi healifreaks,

This is my first post on so I'll introduce myself :)

I'm 30yrs old and live in Espoo, Finland. I started with a 4-ch fixed pitch heli last year, and now I'm hooked onto helis.

It's time for me to move to a bigger, better and build yourself kind of heli. I did a lot of reading about various brands, sizes, types and finally decided to go with the Atom 500 flybarless.

I'll try to make this thread as a build log and post information, pictures, questions as I go through the build right from the parts selection and ordering. If something is amiss please let me know and i'll update the part list. Questions or doubts in blue.

so here goes...

PART LIST

Kit
* Compass Atom 500 flybarless, stock motor (1080kv), CF blades and 9T pinion
* 8T pinon (for lower RPM during training)

Flybarless controller
* Beastx Microbeast + USB Programmer

Electronic Speed Controller
* Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 100
Q: is 100A overrated? lets say if I ever go to 10T and stick banging 3D?
* Castle Link USB programming adapter.

BEC
Q: ESC has 5A switching BEC, is this enough for the flybarless system?

Servos
* 3 x Align DS510M for cyclic (Mini servo: speed 0.11sec/60deg, torque 4.6kg/cm @ 6V)
NOTE: DS510 has plastic gears and are known to strip in a flybarless setup. DS510M has metal gears and seems more suitable.

* Hyperion HP-DS20XGCD for tail (Standard servo: speed 0.06sec/60deg, torque 4.5kg/cm @ 6V)
* Futaba Servo Arm Set (Hobbyking OR007-01203) (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3750). Just in case there are fitting issues with supplied servo arms in the kit.

Radio
* Hitec Aurora 9 channel transmitter
* Hitec Optima 7 channel receiver
* Hitec HPP-22 USB programmer

Battery pack
* Turnigy 3000mAh 6S 30C Lipo Pack (Hobbyking T3000.6S.30) (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9489)
Q: Pack weighs 502g. Will there be CG issues?

Battery charger & Power supply
* Junsi 206B Charger - 20A, 300W
* Junsi P350 DC power supply - 15V, 23A, 350W
* ParaBoard-XH 30A EC5 - for parallel battery charging.

Connectors
* EC5 connectors for Battery to ESC.
* 3.5mm wire Bullet-connectors (Hobbyking 9001-AB) (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10255) for ESC to Motor.
* EC3 connector for Battery to BEC. Only required if separate BEC is used.

Tools
* Pitch guage
* JR Ball link sizing tool JRP960219
* Ball link and needle nose pliers
* X-acto knife
* hex wrenches & phillips drivers
* Threadlock - loctite 222
* Soldering iron and solder wire

Misc
* zip ties
* heat shrink tubes

How does all this look?

cheers,

TheBum
06-07-2011, 08:50 AM
I ran a CC 100A on my Atom 500 with no issues. It's no larger than the 75A physically, so cost is the only issue. The BEC should be plenty for your purposes and the LV ESCs seems to be more reliable than the HV ones.

As for the pack, 502g may be pushing it on the high side. However, it's a good excuse for mounting all your electronics aft of the main shaft if you can.

kevinator9
06-07-2011, 03:07 PM
I used the same servos and battery.
The DS510 are a good servo but they strip very easily in FBL. I am happy to change servo gears at this point because of the cost but will be investigating metal gear servos in the future.
The Turnigy 3300mAh 30C packs fit fine. They make the heli a touch nose heavy but not horridly so.
The 5A BEC will be plenty. I have flown a number of times a Gaui X5 (500mm blades, standard servos) FBL with a 5A BEC (built into the Gaui ESC which is a re-branded HW) so the Atom 500 (425mm blades, mini servos) will be fine.

stark
06-07-2011, 03:36 PM
I ran a CC 100A on my Atom 500 with no issues. It's no larger than the 75A physically, so cost is the only issue. The BEC should be plenty for your purposes and the LV ESCs seems to be more reliable than the HV ones.

As for the pack, 502g may be pushing it on the high side. However, it's a good excuse for mounting all your electronics aft of the main shaft if you can.

Thanks Bum, I'll stick to the CC 100A ESC.
I'm not sure how things fit onto the frame to adjust CG, so I'll have to wait till I get the kit.
I can get 40g off the battery by either lowering capacity i.e. 2650mAH@30C or lowering the discharge rate i.e. 3000mAH@20C. Which one is a better choice?

I used the same servos and battery.
The DS510 are a good servo but they strip very easily in FBL. I am happy to change servo gears at this point because of the cost but will be investigating metal gear servos in the future.
The Turnigy 3300mAh 30C packs fit fine. They make the heli a touch nose heavy but not horridly so.
The 5A BEC will be plenty. I have flown a number of times a Gaui X5 (500mm blades, standard servos) FBL with a 5A BEC (built into the Gaui ESC which is a re-branded HW) so the Atom 500 (425mm blades, mini servos) will be fine.

Thanks Andrew for the servo tip. For Metal gear servos I have the following servos in mind which seem to be a good fit from the drawings.
Align DS510M - abundantly available with gear replacements
MKS DS9660 or DS9670 - Can't find them at many places. Any ideas who stocks them?
I might go with the DS510M.

stark
06-08-2011, 11:00 PM
Ordered the atom 500 FBL Kit from rc711 on the 4th. I paid for registered air parcel but they upgraded to DHL since they delayed the shipping date by 2 days. They replied to my e-mail queries within 24hrs. So overall, I'm happy with rc711's service.

I wish I had a good LHS here. But things are so expensive at my place that it is cheaper for me to order parts from other continents :)

I might have a business trip to Dallas coming soon, so I'm planning to buy all my electronics from the US. I would save me a lot on shipping and VAT.

cheers,

myrseth
06-09-2011, 01:14 AM
In general I would suggest not to go lower then 30C, I run 30c 3amp batteries with no cg issues and considering upgrading to 3300 because I want to get my bls 251 mounted back there ;)

bullitt
06-12-2011, 08:37 PM
I am running 3300 mah turnigy batterys with great results.
9t pinion and I easily get 9.5 minuites fly time.
My next time out I am going to reset the timer to 10 minuites.
I get some nodding in normal flight mode but none in IU.
I prefer the longest flight time possible so the normal mode bobbing isnt an issue.
This is a fantasti heli...you made a great choice!

sly the dogman
06-12-2011, 10:41 PM
You do moderate FF and circuits to fly for 9 1/2min.
Do you fly gov mode, or normal.

stark
06-13-2011, 01:34 PM
:clappp, got my FBL kit today. What to say, I am impressed by the quality of the kit.

Rainy day today, but no worries. Time to open the package.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233794&d=1307984834

Was packaged well, with 2 layers of bubble wrap under the paper wrapper.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233789&stc=1&d=1307984839

Fly at your own risk ??? of course i will :)
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233790&stc=1&d=1307984888

inside the box. The pitch guage doesn't come with the kit. I ordered it separately. rc711 stuffed it in
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233791&stc=1&d=1307984888

further in
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233792&d=1307984731

laying out all the stuff
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233793&d=1307984834

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233795&d=1307984834

I'm not very happy with the stock tail blades. Look at the image and you'll know why.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233796&d=1307984834

The Motor is 1050kV and not 1080kV as mentioned on the box. Not that it matters.
Notice that there is no screw on the plastic thing under the motor. At first I thought that they forgot to include it in the kit, but the screws were actually in one of the plastic bags. Looks like you need to remove that screw to mount the landing gears, that's why it is not installed.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233804&d=1307985451

What is this? is it used for swash plate leveling?
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233805&d=1307985451

The Motor comes with bullet connectors installed. Nice.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233806&d=1307985451

Great stuff. I'm eager and excited to build this mean machine. Need to order the rest of the stuff now. Will keep posting.

cheers.

TheBum
06-13-2011, 01:38 PM
The earlier Atom 500s shipped with a 1080Kv motor. Mine has that motor. They switched to the 1050 and apparently never updated their packaging.

stark
07-13-2011, 05:12 AM
OK. I Finally ordered all of the electronics. I settled on the Phoenix ICE 75 instead of 100. 75Amps seems more than sufficient for this bird.

Also ordered a set of KBDD 70mm tail blades.

cheers,

sly the dogman
07-13-2011, 08:44 PM
I have a 75A CC, easy to program, and to date I'm happy with the results.

And there's no screw missing as you will find out, the front end of the landing
gear is fixed there.

The 1050's plenty powerfull, don't let the numbers fool you

stark
07-15-2011, 04:07 PM
Received the battery packs and EC5 connectors. The Turnigy pack came pre-installed with 5mm bullet connector. I had to hack it off.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gEYf5H71_OU/TiCYladGgSI/AAAAAAAADOY/EvjonzxBBCg/s720/IMG_2624.JPG

---
EC5 connectors come in pairs. The housing for Battery and Device is marked on the housing as "BATT" and "DEV". I figured out from the web that spring ed bullets go in the device connector and solid bullets go in the battery connector.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FrPVY0qMf24/TiCYkLgGrNI/AAAAAAAADOU/2FbU6w7FG1c/s720/IMG_2623.JPG

---
Unlike shown at some other places, the right way to fix this connector is to first feed the wire through the housing, solder it to the bullet and then push the bullet through the housing. Of course you need to tin the wire before everything, Note the polarity of the wire before feeding it through.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u0POh_28APY/TiCYmp1DlmI/AAAAAAAADOc/qOrzfp3Kp2k/s720/IMG_2625.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kP9kPUtKWFU/TiCYoAz-nLI/AAAAAAAADOg/I7elKnpjSH0/s720/IMG_2626.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9zO1YMgknVo/TiCYpZwUz5I/AAAAAAAADOo/lr0of_m_Wek/s720/IMG_2627.JPG

In the above image the bullet is yet not all the way in. You need to apply significant amount of force on the bullet to push it in the housing till you hear it snap. The final assembly is shown below.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mpf-g-BEpzc/TiCYqk1lzHI/AAAAAAAADOs/OJU-KweAv6U/s720/IMG_2628.JPG

TallPaul
07-17-2011, 12:21 PM
Glad to hear that maybe RC711 has figured out their freight/email issues - my last order wasn't as smooth.

I also use EC 5, which work very well. While it might not make a difference, I install my bullets just the opposite way - pushing from the base to the tip. Obviously, your install is very clean and neat - so it works very well.

I would suggest the next time you order parts, consider buying some extra Female EC5s, since you will need those every time you buy a new battery.

sly the dogman
07-17-2011, 01:57 PM
To solder EC5 bullets I personnally never tin the wires,
I just fill up the bullet and poak in the wire. I heat the bullet
with a hand torch. The whole operation takes under a minute.
A hand torch is the way to go with these bullets. But there are
many other ways to do this, I guess.

TheBum
07-17-2011, 03:36 PM
To solder EC5 bullets I personnally never tin the wires,
I just fill up the bullet and poak in the wire. I heat the bullet
with a hand torch. The whole operation takes under a minute.
A hand torch is the way to go with these bullets. But there are
many other ways to do this, I guess.

You may not be getting a good solder joint doing that. The solder may not be properly bonding to the copper in the wire, which will result in a resistive connection and may cause the joint to heat up under high current.

sly the dogman
07-17-2011, 09:08 PM
Your probably right, but so far so good.

If the cup is full of solder and I soak the wire properly
trimed in it. What would be the difference if the tip was
soldered ?
I know I read your post it explains it perfectely.
I don't dought, I just wonder....
Next connecters will have soldered tips, hey, why not !!!

TheBum
07-17-2011, 09:20 PM
If the cup is full of solder and I soak the wire properly
trimed in it. What would be the difference if the tip was
soldered ?

The solder in the cup doesn't have any flux in it. If you're using rosin core solder, you get flux when applying solder directly from the spool. The flux cleans oxidation and contaminants from the wire and prevents the wire from re-oxidizing during the soldering process.

I suppose you could dip the wire in flux and then into the cup.

sly the dogman
07-17-2011, 09:53 PM
I apply solder directly from the spool.

TheBum
07-17-2011, 09:56 PM
I apply solder directly from the spool.

But the point is that the flux burns off as it comes off the spool, so there's none left over for the wire. If you tin the wire from the spool first, it's getting the flux too.

Ah Clem
07-17-2011, 10:10 PM
I have been tinning the wires first, then filling the cup on the back of the plug about half way with solder, then, while holding the iron against the connector (so the solder is still fluid), dipping the tinned wire in and keeping the whole thing hot briefly (long enough to get a nice bright joint and make sure that the solder on the tinned wire has flowed properly with the solder in the cup).

This seems to be working, so far.

sly the dogman
07-18-2011, 12:18 PM
Elementery, my dear Bum, point made !

TheBum
07-18-2011, 12:25 PM
I have been tinning the wires first, then filling the cup on the back of the plug about half way with solder, then, while holding the iron against the connector (so the solder is still fluid), dipping the tinned wire in and keeping the whole thing hot briefly (long enough to get a nice bright joint and make sure that the solder on the tinned wire has flowed properly with the solder in the cup).

This seems to be working, so far.

If you use a wooden holder and a 800-degree soldering iron, you don't even need to keep heat on the bullet. In my experience, the solder will stay molten for almost 10 seconds because there's nothing metal in contact with the bullet to draw the heat away, plenty of time to dip the tinned wire into it and have the solder in the wire and in the cup flow together. The wood will scorch, but I've never had it burst into flames. I just use a regular spring-type wooden clothespin clamped into my "helping hands" device.

stark
09-17-2011, 11:49 AM
Finally got all the electronics.

I did the following before mounting anything on the frame.


Removed all screws from the frame and got rid of old thread-lock. Easiest way to get the old thread-lock off the screws is to heat the screws and clean them with a cloth.

Sanded the frame with P240 sandpaper to get rid of sharp frame edges. Motor was removed during this process to protect it from CF dust.

Put the screws back with thread-lock. (blue loctite).


Frame with servos mounted
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-s9FOxJQwBnc/TnS8WV6xkII/AAAAAAAADQI/84VYPty1eso/s720/IMG_2644.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ePFXi5-fs9E/TnS8XZNr_qI/AAAAAAAADQM/v4K7t_ykpzo/s720/IMG_2645.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ko08K4GdCVs/TnS8YV5LWpI/AAAAAAAADQQ/Zc2spHozCo8/s720/IMG_2646.JPG

Mounting the Tail servo was a bit tricky as I had to split open the servo to get it in the slot.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B-tFIatvksk/TnS8ZeUjPWI/AAAAAAAADQU/32Ijv5YPMbw/s720/IMG_2647.JPG

stark
09-17-2011, 12:23 PM
The servo arms that came with the Atom kit are too tight on the 510M servos. I used the Futaba servo arms available at Hobbyking (OR007-01203). They are a perfect fit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ke0cqKzOTw4/TnS9Lu_ootI/AAAAAAAADQc/kak3goH3FfE/s720/IMG_2649.JPG


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XONVd11ob7M/TnS9MhF_DwI/AAAAAAAADQg/_RtzEVDUZJM/s720/IMG_2650.JPG

I'm getting a slight positive pitch on the blades with the swash plate leveling tool in place and the shortest possible "swash to blade-grip" links. (see above pic).

Any idea's what needs to be done?