3GX on 450 Pro

[rotaryguy]

I am a first time user of any Align FBL system, actually I have only used vbar's - I have done 10 vbar models ranging in size from 450-700 all electrics, vbar V 4-5.1 Pro. I am not a vbar expert.

Install will be a 450 Pro-
My initial thoughts are it looks great and has great potential. My first action was loading the 450 expert settings from the software, this was the only time I used the software during the entire process.
I also must note that vbar handles all the swash functions and your TX is setup as a basic 4ch heli vs. the 3GX where the TX still needs to be 6ch 120 CCPM in this case.
I then did the bypass mode for mechanical setup, my complaint here is you can’t use TX end points and it’s all done via links or sub trim for zero pitch setup but no means to level the swash at full +- collective where the vbar allows you to level the swash via software at all three points. Oh and I had to get my 6 year old to hold down the set button while I plugged in the battery to get into bypass mode as I sadly only have 2 hands.

Next was quick setup with the sticks which I did not care for after using vbar's software but it was not at all difficult, just different. I went through all the set points as outlined in the manual - E-lim, E-rev, A-lim, etc., etc. finished that up, then setup the tail gyro similar to the GP780 which was again not difficult, just go through a series of settings and stick movements via led lights on the unit itself.
Done -


I have only one quick flight out front of my house, some rainbows, tic-tocs, flips, rolls and such. I had to land and dial in some ail. and ele. expo as it seemed very twitchy around center stick - done - back up - elevator stops in most moves bobbled very badly but I did not notice it so much on aileron stops, tail seemed great for what little flying I did.

So it looks like I will need to do a little research, use the software interface or the pots to try and clean this up some but I am ok with it so far, if I had paid full retail for the unit with my vbar experience I might be upset being there is only a ~$60 difference vs. mini-V but mine is pulled from my 600 Pro combo that will be getting a full size vbar. I see it as a learning experience at this point - If I can’t get it right I will re-evaluate.

[whittb]

You are ahead of me but I have the same idea as you. I have a Full-size V-bar allocated to my new 600E Pro kit when it gets hear. I was planning to put the 3GX unit on my 450 Pro. I see it fits nicely, I am however a Novus flyer so I am more interested in the sport flying settings.

You can use a small amount of end point adjustment to level the swash. At least I was able to with the old 3G units.
Setup is rather easy, much less complicated than the V-bar that’s for sure.

Getting into setup mode is a 3 handed operation unless you use a screw driver. I press it up to the unit and then use my stomach to hold it in while I hit the TX switch. My son is never home anymore.

Just remember to make sure you are in Direct mode before you make any changes. It’s easy to forget. Also make sure you are in direct mode before you try to measure the pitch angle. It will not read correctly if not.

I plane on putting a Hyperion tail servo on the 450 Pro. The 420 is not known for its holding power. I would be very interested in hearing about any of the setting you find you need to tweak.

[whittb]

Have you set up your V-bar on the 600 Pro yet. Did you need to make any changes to the linkage to achieve 80 to 100
Values for collective and cyclic pitch throws. I set up a V-bar on my Velocity 50 (push pull system) and it took me 4 attempts with 3 changes to the linkage and finally a smaller servo horn before I was able to achieve the desired cyclic throw rates. I hope it was worth the effort, if the weather holds I shall find out this weekend.

thanks

[rotaryguy]

Not there yet with the 600 Pro -And your vbar setup comment = being much more complicated than 3G.
I strongly disagree. The vbar software front end is light years ahead of the competition and setup screens are well laid out graphically. My opinion of course.

[Lower!]

Try hooking up to the software and look at the movement speed screen. This may tell you why it is so twitchy. I think you want to see 299deg/sec at full ail and ele stick input. Out of the box mine was reading 300deg/sec at ~70% stick.

You can adjust this with the Ail and Ele control rate slider. You need to write values before you see a change. Same deal for Rudder but I target 500deg/sec.

Maybe Align "experts" want 300deg/sec at 1/2 stick for those sideways crackrolls :)

The bobbles are likely gain or vibration related, I have mine strapped down tight - wires too.

[rotaryguy]

I will take a look via the gui - I can can say for sure the heli is vibration free, vbar vibration analyzer at roughly 3500 HS was well under 100 points.

[whittb]

I was referring to the fact that the majority of the 3G setup is mechanics and radio setup. Very similar to the fly bare setup. Since I do not push my heli very hard, I found that a minor tweak to the hiller rate and the bell rate made my 450 and 500 bird fly very well. i adjust my gyro gain from the radio as well.

I would agree that the menus on the V-bar are much easier to follow, but not needed for basic sport flying on the 3G systems.

The V-bar has a much better vibration dampener built into the sensor than the 3GX most likely. You may find the 3GX has some vibrations that the V-bar was isolated from.

Good luck on your setup.

[robv]

Were you able to dial in your 450? I just threw on the 3GX on my 450 Pro and it seems to handle ok. When I get into elevator tic tocs, the heli seems to bobble forward and back just a little. Further, in elevator tic tocs and rainbows, the heli seems to drift to the left. Also, in some maneuvers, the heli seems to pitch forward/backward pretty hard. Aileron tic tocs seem fine though. I run a HS of 3250 and gains at or around 1030-11 o'clock position.

Just curious if you have dialed it in successfully and if you would like to share. BTW, this is my first FBL system. I'm also learning how to setup the Vbar as well. Thanks!

[Lzfalcon]

I have set up the 3gx using the software on a 450 Pro. My question is , since I have put the unit between the frames, I can get to the aileron and elevator gain screws on the unit it self, can the setting be adjusted with in the software that would adjust the heli in the same way as on the unit it self? If so , which screen do I do this and which setting. The heli is performing great. with the exception of a bit of a bobble, (rocking back and forth) motion.

[rotaryguy]

I had to install very hard dampeners to help the elevator bobble - it was pretty severe and it did make a notable improvement. This was on a brand new 450 pro build the stock dampeners were just too soft.
It seems to be flying ok, still need to tinker and yes I still liked my last 450 pro with a mini-v better so far.
The software is buggy so beware, every few times I click the write button the heli will actually start to spool up and the swash servos go bananas - nice huh. When it does that the only way to stop it is to pull the battery.
My second issue may just be lack of 3gx experience but when I start it up on the bench it jumps the swash and sits perfectly level but in flight and after it wants to drift to the right (aileron) and will even do it on the bench after a flight. If I reboot the unit its fine and sits level again. Here is a quick video I took after a flight while still plugged in, by simply unplugging/plugging back in the pack it quit doing it but it does this pretty much every flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmNNfPfP07s

[beenflying]

I'm not happy with the elevator on my 450 pro either. It seems very pitchy. Adjusting the elevator gain pot just takes it from bobble to very loose.

I see in the 450 pro V2, they are recommending putting the 3GX right under the main shaft. I'm using the gyro AR plate, like rotaryguy.

Anyone having more luck with the 450 pro, and could perhaps share a setup TXT file.

whittb, what change did you do to the bell hiller settings?

Thanks.

[jockstrap]

I don't think the "bobbles" are 450 related as I have a t-rex550 with the 3gx and I have elevator bobbles as well... it's mainly on harder elev moves like tick-tocks and only minor so seeing I'm only a sport flyer it doesn't bother me too much so I'm not too fussed - but would be nice to get rid of it..

I installed a 2nd 3gx unit in my outrage G5 and it also has the elevator bobbles :(

overall I'm quite happy with the 3gx.. if the bobbles get sorted i'll be a very happy chappy - but as far as my 550 goes - it rocks, flies like it's on rails.. I really love it..

[rotaryguy]

Installed super hard trueblood dampeners and most all of the elevator bobble was gone.
http://www.readyheli.com/DAMPENERS5-Green-Trueblood-Trex-450-V2-V3-Pro-Super-Hard-Dampeners_p_32416.html

[Cullen Colapietro]

I'll be giving the KBDDs a go and will report back.

[beenflying]

Installed super hard trueblood dampeners and most all of the elevator bobble was gone.
http://www.readyheli.com/DAMPENERS5-Green-Trueblood-Trex-450-V2-V3-Pro-Super-Hard-Dampeners_p_32416.html
Thanks, I've ordered some of these.

I tried setting the bell-hiller mixing to 60 hiller and 50 bell. Flew much smoother and more like the flybar 450 pro, but the elevator is still not quite right. I'm going to change the elevator lock gain and see what effect this has.

[jockstrap]

I put k&B hard dampners (but not extreme) , the yellow ones, on my t-rex550, much harder than the stock ones - still has slight "bobbles" - but it doesn't really phase me at my level..

[beenflying]

I've finally found some settings that work pretty good for my 450 pro and my style of 3D flying, using the stock dampers.

Tarot FBL head (soon to be the new ALZRC SKD FBL head (http://www.hk-parts.com/trex-450-pro-parts/3g-flybarless/alzrc-450-skd-flybarless-metal-head-assembly-skd-sliver.html)) :)
Servo arm balls at 12.5mm
Pitch 12 and cyclic 9 (both pots at 12 o'clock)
Starting with the 450 expert, select custom and change:
Aileron control rate to 60

Elevator control rate to 50
Elevator lock gain to 30
Elevator stop gain to 60

Rudder Control rate to 60

Hiller to 60
Bell to 50

Tx:
Aileron & Elevator Expo at 40. Rudder Expo at 30. Gyro at 32 true gain.

Much better in the wind and best of all, a smooth elevator. :)

[oliver1071]

I've finally found some settings that work pretty good for my 450 pro and my style of 3D flying, using the stock dampers.

Tarot FBL head (soon to be the new ALZRC SKD FBL head (http://www.hk-parts.com/trex-450-pro-parts/3g-flybarless/alzrc-450-skd-flybarless-metal-head-assembly-skd-sliver.html)) :)
Servo arm balls at 12.5mm
Pitch 12 and cyclic 9 (both pots at 12 o'clock)
Starting with the 450 expert, select custom and change:
Aileron control rate to 60

Elevator control rate to 50
Elevator lock gain to 30
Elevator stop gain to 60

Rudder Control rate to 60

Hiller to 60
Bell to 50

Tx:
Aileron & Elevator Expo at 40. Rudder Expo at 30. Gyro at 32 true gain.

Much better in the wind and best of all, a smooth elevator. :)

Thanks for the tips beenflying. I've been hesitant to reduce the lock gain past 50 since my other 3-3GX birds fly fine at 50+ even the 250se I was looking elsewhere for the problem.
The sport has been giving me problems with the elevator bobble setting it at 30 and putting the pot at 12 o’clock seemed to do the trick I was just out flipping like mad in the backyard and I didn't see any bobble
It's crazy how different the 3gx setup is between my 250, 450 sport and 550 v2.
I have the Aileron pot on the 250 up to 100 and it flys beautifully. Where all of rest bobble after 50-60.

I have to say FBL/3GX-3G and the Aurora 9 have to be my favorite upgrades so far. When I go back to my DX6i for my Mcpx and it feels so outdated.