scorpion hk3 4035-500kv and jive80hv with mode 10 ksa?

[kmiglis]

rumors say at the German site that some scorpions need mode 10 in order to work without cutoffs....
i had two motor cutoffs in the past week all of the sudden!
inspection on the second case showed an ec5 that had unclamped but on the first i had no evidence about the cause.
come on lets share some ideas and thoughts.
luckily no serious damage at either cases.

[helicraze]

Never had to run KSA on any scorp motors

[linus]

Hi,

I do not fly scorpion but I know many who do. It is really recommended to turn on KSA. If unsure for a certain model you can send a mail to Kontronik, they can tell you.

Cheers
Linus

[worldofmaya]

There're issues beween Jive and certain 8 pole motors. No matter which manufacturer.
I don't know about V3 of the 4035-500, but the V2 runs without much problems (besides excessive heat) in Mikado kits. It's a 10-pole by the way. There aren't any real design changes in V3 which affects Escs from what I've seen so far on other KV models.
By the way do you guys know what KSA does with your Jive? If not you should read more in-depth about that. Short version would be that it sets a Jive to a much lower level (some call it dumb) comparable to other Escs. I wouldn't recommend using this mode unless you're really certain it's really a problem between Jive - motor and your motor is okay...
First off it would be interesting to know which failure codes you got...
-Klaus

[shaman3]

Hi,
I have flown the 4525SE for ~100 flights now, and since last week I fly the 4530SE, too - both w/o KSA and no problems @all.
I am afraid that one gives away some of the best features of the Jive controller by switching to KSA, so I would recommend to at least try without.
I can only speculate why the normal, non-KSA mode works fine for some and doesn't for others.
Maybe it has something to do with the electric connection of the motor to the jive...
Personally, I have savagely cut all the wires (pulled through the crocofence) to a *total* length (motor<->jive) of ~8cm, soldered together with 5,5mm bushings.
I have tried to make a picture, but its hard to show the wires, if they barely exist :D
All I can say is that it really works flawlessly, and I don't fly too gently (~6kw speed-passes with >9kw peaks) :Bang
Cheers, Daniel

P.S.
Forgot to mention that my wiring on the power-side is rather long because of the Emcotec SPS, so that doesn't seem pose a problem...

[ZuvieleTeile]

There're issues beween Jive and certain 8 pole motors. No matter which manufacturer. . .

By the way do you guys know what KSA does with your Jive? If not you should read more in-depth about that. Short version would be that it sets a Jive to a much lower level (some call it dumb) comparable to other Escs. I wouldn't recommend using this mode unless you're really certain it's really a problem between Jive - motor and your motor is okay...
First off it would be interesting to know which failure codes you got...
-Klaus

@ Klaus,
is there somewhere a real good explanation of he KSA mode?
So far I heard only rumors, suggestions, "makes the Jive stupid" etc. etc.
Not even Kontronik gives you something substantial in their manual, which is not rich of good explanations anyway.:roll:
Is it enough just to switch to KSA mode, if problems occur? Is there a way to adjust the timing, frequency, soft start?

[worldofmaya]

Kontronik doesn't give any useful (official) insides from what I know. There are a few guys out there with closer contacts and some pretty good understanding about what is going on under the hood. I just informed myself for some customer machines for my LHS, that's where I found motors with issues when used with a Jive and need KSA and others which just had production failures.
Basically yes, you can use KSA if you have problems, but than again you might just "solve" a problem by disabling security features which should prevent damage from your Jive. Those problems could be for example magnets which aren't correctly aligned (....). That's why I wrote KSA should be the last solution.
Kontronik just allows to optimize settings in a small range (-5° <-> +10°, I,P, ...). Auto-timing is one of the great things when using a Jive. Fixed timing just works in a small range without losing efficiency.
-Klaus

[ZuvieleTeile]

Thanks Klaus,
Does the same apply to the Jive 120HV?
Funny thing is, that most of the problems seem to be with Scorpion motors. . .

[worldofmaya]

Most problems were with Hacker motors, that's why this mode was implemented. Scorpions, at least 10-poles shouldn't produce any problems. Just have a look at logs done with 4530 and 4535 with continuous current beyond 150A and peaks above 250A on a Jive 120HV. If you have problems check magnets...
-Klaus

[jointer]

To be honest, i use +12 timing (max) with my Pyro.
It seems it does not have bad influence on temps, but i can feel power difference at the end of pitch range.
I tried Auto after recent repair and i felt it.
I have it like this for over 200 flights, maybe more, so if any Pyro owner want a bit of power, you should not be affraid.

[helicraze]

I found that even with motors that need KSA mode, sometimes even with that mode it shuts down, better to get proper motor