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cb3d
06-26-2011, 12:17 AM
Good call Onthesnap, I put 105's on the tail, 700 rear landing gear, and governed my CC ESC to 2200 max, and the thing just performs beautifuly. My tail was rock solid today with everything I threw at it. Fast inverted backwards Hurricanes, tail down inverted funnels, rainbows, elev./ail. tic-tocs. Good catch. I loved it with the High recommended HS, but I feel alot safer with this setup, and the performance its great. Plus, I like the aggressive look of the kicked up tail:)

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 12:25 AM
Good call Onthesnap, I put 105's on the tail, 700 rear landing gear, and governed my CC ESC to 2200 max, and the thing just performs beautifuly. My tail was rock solid today with everything I threw at it. Fast inverted backwards Hurricanes, tail down inverted funnels, rainbows, elev./ail. tic-tocs. Good catch. I loved it with the High recommended HS, but I feel alot safer with this setup, and the performance its great. Plus, I like the aggressive look of the kicked up tail:)

Nice! Did you try 95's at all?

raptor50luvver
06-26-2011, 02:34 AM
My old 600e pro did a big backward inverted loop yesterday fast and something exploded on the tail we think the 105s touched the mains or one of the mains shredded airframe is a write off will see if I can post some pics later he was running 2300 rpm

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 02:46 AM
My old 600e pro did a big backward inverted loop yesterday fast and something exploded on the tail we think the 105s touched the mains or one of the mains shredded airframe is a write off will see if I can post some pics later he was running 2300 rpm

I checked and there is no way the 105's can touch the 600 blades. Were the tail grips still attached to the spindle? Any sign of sheered bolts in the tail? The stock bolts are fairly soft metal. This is why I dropped in the KDE upgrade which includes hardened bolts. Now I'm running the QUK tail which is overkill. Also, if you over tighten the tail bolts they can give.

30 flights with 105's slapping the elevator full bore and no issues. Not even one tap of the tail blades to the mains.

scoti333
06-26-2011, 02:59 AM
What about with 623mm Edge blades and 105mm tails? I'm trying this tomorro and need to know if I'm an idiot or not...

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 03:21 AM
What about with 623mm Edge blades and 105mm tails? I'm trying this tomorro and need to know if I'm an idiot or not...

Nooooo!!!! 623's don't fit even with 95mm tail. The Pro has a short boom for it's class.

raptor50luvver
06-26-2011, 03:39 AM
All the bolts and balls were still in situ after the crash sorry just hasten to add he isn't blaming the airframe for one second we all know a million and one things can go wrong a link could have popped off etc.

All we know is there was a crack from the tail and a part of one main blade shredded off and the model piro'd down to the ground boomstriking and other bits coming off about 10 people were watching the flight as we were interested in the tail issue etc.

To add he is simply going to buy a new kit this week,shit happens sometimes in this hobby and yesterday was his turn it's all part of it really,he won't be the first person to write an airframe and deffo won't be the last.

Just posted it in case any more issues arise so it's been noted.

Edit just seen pics....105s tips are OK,wondering is main gear or auto hub blew out.
Was in throttle hold long before contact with ground,it was NOT a powered crash.

scoti333
06-26-2011, 07:26 AM
Nooooo!!!! 623's don't fit even with 95mm tail. The Pro has a short boom for it's class.

Yea I put them on and it was definitely a 'whoa this don't look right' moment. Just had to hear it from someone who knows what they're talkin about! Brand new 623mm FBL EDGE blades for sale! That's it, sorry to hijack the thread.. Carry on..

PitchFella
06-26-2011, 08:19 AM
So I bought some new 3G 600mm blades to replace my busted set.

I found the markings on the box very interesting.

2100 RPM max. Hmm. Houston we have a problem.
236410
236411

What the statement regarding the 2100RPM max. from Align?

Use at your own risk :confused:

Tenguru
06-26-2011, 09:25 AM
All the bolts and balls were still in situ after the crash sorry just hasten to add he isn't blaming the airframe for one second we all know a million and one things can go wrong a link could have popped off etc.

All we know is there was a crack from the tail and a part of one main blade shredded off and the model piro'd down to the ground boomstriking and other bits coming off about 10 people were watching the flight as we were interested in the tail issue etc.

To add he is simply going to buy a new kit this week,shit happens sometimes in this hobby and yesterday was his turn it's all part of it really,he won't be the first person to write an airframe and deffo won't be the last.

Just posted it in case any more issues arise so it's been noted.

Edit just seen pics....105s tips are OK,wondering is main gear or auto hub blew out.
Was in throttle hold long before contact with ground,it was NOT a powered crash.

How high off the ground was it when the failure occurred? I am surprised that the accident requires a re-kit; I have heard on and off of this forum that the new 600 frame is built like a little truck.

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 09:27 AM
All the bolts and balls were still in situ after the crash sorry just hasten to add he isn't blaming the airframe for one second we all know a million and one things can go wrong a link could have popped off etc.

All we know is there was a crack from the tail and a part of one main blade shredded off and the model piro'd down to the ground boomstriking and other bits coming off about 10 people were watching the flight as we were interested in the tail issue etc.

To add he is simply going to buy a new kit this week,shit happens sometimes in this hobby and yesterday was his turn it's all part of it really,he won't be the first person to write an airframe and deffo won't be the last.

Just posted it in case any more issues arise so it's been noted.

Edit just seen pics....105s tips are OK,wondering is main gear or auto hub blew out.
Was in throttle hold long before contact with ground,it was NOT a powered crash.

Sounds like a classic boom strike. Any broken links or balls backed out of the swash or grips?

I use red loctite on all swash balls and grips just for this reason. Never a good result when you loose a link.

Tenguru
06-26-2011, 11:32 AM
This is why I dropped in the KDE upgrade which includes hardened bolts. Now I'm running the QUK tail which is overkill. Also, if you over tighten the tail bolts they can give.

30 flights with 105's slapping the elevator full bore and no issues. Not even one tap of the tail blades to the mains.

Is anyone other than Raptor50luvver running 105's with the stock tail hardware?

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 11:43 AM
Is anyone other than Raptor50luvver running 105's with the stock tail hardware?

We could do the math, but I would bet centrifugal forces at 2500 are higher than 2250 with 105's.

Anyway even if you run 95's I'd upgrade the bolts. There is just a long history of Align 550-700 throwing tail grips.

cb3d
06-26-2011, 12:02 PM
Is anyone other than Raptor50luvver running 105's with the stock tail hardware?

Im running this setup now. I posted a few posts back my setup. 105's, 700 rear landing gear, and 2200 HS governed on the CC ESC. Works perfectly, everything else is stock except for the CC Pro BEC. I ran the stock 95's and HS when I first got it, but after reading this topic, the lower HS sounded much safer to me.
I had to lower my gyro gain significantly to get rid of the fast rudder wag once I made the switch, but that was to be expected with the much bigger tail blades. Im very happy with this setup, I still have crazy fast climb outs and pitch pumps, nice hard fast stops, and heli still seems very fast thru anything I can throw at it. Still has nice nice loud blade farts too with this HS. I was concerned about the main and tail blades touching at first too, but no issues or boom strikes yesterday.

cb3d
06-26-2011, 12:05 PM
All the bolts and balls were still in situ after the crash sorry just hasten to add he isn't blaming the airframe for one second we all know a million and one things can go wrong a link could have popped off etc.

All we know is there was a crack from the tail and a part of one main blade shredded off and the model piro'd down to the ground boomstriking and other bits coming off about 10 people were watching the flight as we were interested in the tail issue etc.

To add he is simply going to buy a new kit this week,shit happens sometimes in this hobby and yesterday was his turn it's all part of it really,he won't be the first person to write an airframe and deffo won't be the last.

Just posted it in case any more issues arise so it's been noted.

Edit just seen pics....105s tips are OK,wondering is main gear or auto hub blew out.
Was in throttle hold long before contact with ground,it was NOT a powered crash.

Wow! That was a hard crash. Sorry man.

Commodore8888
06-26-2011, 12:39 PM
Same here. 105's and stock tail hardware. 700e skids + small piece of foam pinned to fin for extra protection. Sat and banged elevator back and forth. Mains didn't come any closer to the 105's than a few cm's. Probably going to switch out tail bolts to stronger stuff though.

raptor50luvver
06-26-2011, 01:20 PM
All balls in situ and loctited.

We have found that it looks like the tail front drive bevel gears have melted,i have seen this in Logos and others on the main gear when the mesh isnt good and lots of load is applied,of course here its not adjustable.

Both gears have melted the whole way round,this would explain the sudden hard piro and loss of tail,whether they melted simply under load or as a result of a sudden load or lock to the tail is unknown but its not crash damage.It appears the main and auto gear damage was a result of the shock to the head which has rammed the bearing blocks down thru the frames and smashing the auto gear in the process as it was forced into the frame below it.

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 03:20 PM
All balls in situ and loctited.

We have found that it looks like the tail front drive bevel gears have melted,i have seen this in Logos and others on the main gear when the mesh isnt good and lots of load is applied,of course here its not adjustable.

Both gears have melted the whole way round,this would explain the sudden hard piro and loss of tail,whether they melted simply under load or as a result of a sudden load or lock to the tail is unknown but its not crash damage.It appears the main and auto gear damage was a result of the shock to the head which has rammed the bearing blocks down thru the frames and smashing the auto gear in the process as it was forced into the frame below it.

I thought the main cause of the crash was the boom strike? Not just simple loss of tail power?


Boom strike -> bent TT -> stripped tail gears

raptor50luvver
06-26-2011, 04:24 PM
That's very plausible yes for sure we were just trying to pin down the instigator of the events but as mentioned earlier,it's anyone's guess.:dontknow

Glad to read earlier that there is a viable way to restore a more healthy tail speed on the heli if required.:lol:

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 04:42 PM
Put another 8 flights on it today and really tried to break it. No issues with the Heli but unfortunately a cell died in one of my packs.

I did manage to record a couple videos. Pretty uninspired meh flights, but when I get time I'll throw them on YouTube.

teshreve
06-26-2011, 05:40 PM
3 flights on mine now. Based on the good word from Mr. Snap, I just put the 105 blades on the tail from the 1st flight. I bought the 018 kit and moved all my ESP stuff over (including the KDE'ized tail setup and 700 tail fin). Added a HobbyWing Platinum 120 HV ESC so I can finally have a good governor (and holy crap does the v-bar governor work good).
Since this kit doesn't come with the alu servo horns (or any horns - even though the manual shows they are supposed to be included), I am using the plastic horns that come with the Align 6x0 servos (4 arms) on the outermost hole, which is 16.5mm from the center. The metal horns are 18mm from center. Still, the v-bar is at exactly 100 for 13/13. But these horns flex like crazy and it makes me nervous as hell.Ordering the alu units today.

Really nice upgrade to the ESP. More refined, better battery setup by far, quieter, simpler linkage setup, better layout for electronics... but I don't like the fixed pinion mesh at all.

I am getting lots of raised vibration elevels and about 3 extremes per flight. My sensor damper stack, bottom up, is Futaba tape that comes with the GY520, metal plate that comes with older Spartan gyros, 3M rubbery thin foam tape, and then the sensor. The spectrum analyzer indicates it is the motor. Perhaps the Align 600MX are just not balanced well?

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 06:55 PM
I am getting lots of raised vibration elevels and about 3 extremes per flight. My sensor damper stack, bottom up, is Futaba tape that comes with the GY520, metal plate that comes with older Spartan gyros, 3M rubbery thin foam tape, and then the sensor. The spectrum analyzer indicates it is the motor. Perhaps the Align 600MX are just not balanced well?

My experience is as long as there are no warnings in a hover you're good to go. Running the spectrum analyzer on mine, I see big spikes at the motor frequency. Before my crash, removing the counter bearing made them all go away. So I replaced the bearing with a nice ceramic. After the crash I can't seem to get rid of them at the motor frequency. Every flight I get a nice row of extreme vibration warnings. Flys fine though and there are zero visual vibrations, so I'm just flying it.

Glad the 600Pro is working well for you!

2 videos uploading now. Both have horrendous focus problems. I tried to turn off the auto focus but I guess the settings didn't stick? In the first flight, power was pretty crappy and it turns out I toasted one of my Voltz packs. :-( vBar gov did really good until then end though with a fried cell. I should be able to post them in 2 hours or so. Great videos if you enjoy watching a blurry blob dance around the screen. :arggg:

OnTheSnap
06-26-2011, 07:50 PM
Here's the first video. A very ~meh~ flight. Should have done more "smack" close to camera instead of all the (yawn) big air stuff. Anyway, I pushed the tail fairly hard in a few spots in the video. The camera focus was HORRIBLE. But owell. Here's a video to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOa1ulCqj2Q

teshreve
06-26-2011, 08:11 PM
Ya, it is flying fine.
Just put another 3 on it. I can't seem to make it get out of shape. Throwing caution to the wind with these servo horns, heh. Would love to get a cam on them in-flight.The L/R aileron servos have those extended posts and the servo arms twist up pretty good. Have a nut on the back, but....
Just did some mach 3 funnels in both directions and piro slides (fall from sky, knife edge while doing piros). Tail was super solid and consistent. I am using a Futaba BLS251 that has at least 300 flights on it.
I can't get over how good the governor is working. I get just a hint of overspeed in some moves, and am bumping the gain +2 each flight now, so even that is almost gone now. Snap, could you post your .vbr?

And how did the book recommended link lengths work out for you?

teshreve
06-26-2011, 09:18 PM
hehe

Hard landing on auto (stayed skids down). I strongly recommend against regular horns.