Question on Installing Raja's Generator

[lperagallo]

Chris and Raja,
I just installed the generator on my Intrepid EB. Everything went as the directions said with one exception. When I was checking the installation I noticed that that I wasn't getting full collective. I then noticed that the Popsicle stick was hitting the rear mounting bolt. Not by much mind you, but enough that I couldn't get full pitch. I can either grind down the Popsicle stick where the bolt hits, or I guess lengthen each linkage going to the swash plate about three turns. Please advise the best way to correct this.

Also, when mounting the electronic gear I had to mount the capacitor on top of the aileron servo with double sided tape. There doesn't seem to be any other place where the wires will be free of any moving parts. Is this OK or will there be interference between the capacitor and servo. If this is not a good point to mount it give me a few suggestions or pictures.

Thanks,
Lou

[cbergen]

If your popsicle sticks were level at half stick, they should not contact the mount bolts.

It would be better to reset your linkages instead of grinding on the popsicle sticks. I would worry about weakening them.

I'm not sure I like the idea of mounting the electronics on the servo. I planned on double sticking it to the frame below the popsicle sticks. No pics as I then installed it on MIT's Industrial Twin......

[miami6]

sorry but since I am new to bergens can someone please post a picture of this so called "popsicle Stick" i am curious javascript:emoticon(':?:')
Question

[rbort]

Thanks Chris for the technical question about the mount.

As far as the rectifier circuit, in general I have mounted mine right to the side of the mount on the Minair gassers. Not exactly sure how it would go best on the Bergen as I don't have one handy but I would say double stick it with a good gyro tape that will stay put (like CSM for example) to the frame somewhere rather than putting it directly on the servo.

I will say however I have not witnessed any interferance from the generator in any configuration yet and I've even had the regulator wrapped in foam right next to the receiver. But since the rectifier is probably the "noisiest" part of the generator (AC voltage there), its probably best to stay away from the servo.

Wherever you install it, just start the engine and do a range check with the PCM failsafe set to idle. Throttle up slightly and walk away until the motor throttles back and you will know how good of a range you have.

One last thing. Do not tie wrap the regulator to the helicopter frame or anything conductive as over time the shrink tubing can wear on the back of the regulator and its components can get shorted out on the frame. Double sticky tape or velcro works great, that is how I mount mine.

Enjoy!

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Chris and Raja,

Thanks for the information. I'll check to see if the popsicle sticks are level at half stick. I looked at the build manual again and I see that the links on the elevator 'A' frame have some threads showing where mine do not. The links came installed in the kit, so I never changed them. I'll make the adjustments there.

The problem with the electronic mounting is the length of the wires coming from the generator. To mount it on the frame out of the way of moving parts I have to mount the rectifier back pretty far on the frame. The wires back to the RX are then short. What do you think about mounting the rectifier with double sided tape to teh popsicle stick? Do you think there is too much movement on the collective that would cause wiring issues? I guess I'll have to add an extension if I have to mount the rectifier to the back of the frame.

Thanks,
Lou

[rbort]

Hmmm...interesting. Too bad I don't have a Bergen machine in front of me to come up with the best way to do things. At the moment what you have is the AXI motor with the full length of wires, and the regulator with its full length of its supplied wire.

Let us know how you make out with the install and if you had to use an extension and such. Down the road if you tell me what the idea length of wires would be from the rectifier to the regulator and from the regulator to the receiver, I can look into adjusting those to make the installation smoother.

I'm afraid I too don't know what this popsicle stick is. Can you maybe post some pictures here in this post of your heli and how you are trying to install things? Maybe I can offer some suggestions if I can see it.

Thanks,

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Chris please see the pictures and you will see my issue. I have the endpoints for the collective servo set to 100% for both. At mid stick, everything is 90 degrees. At full collective at 100% pitch I get +10. The pictures were taken at full collective. The front bolt is fine, the back bolt is in the way. Is there a way to use a bolt that does not have a shoulder?

Raja,
As you can see there isn't much room to attach the rectifier. The popsicle is the gold collective arm. To get clear of moving parts I have to mount it rear of the swash, then come back to get to the RX.

Thanks,
Lou

[rbort]

Rear of the swash? Where are you going to go with that, I think the motor wires are too short to reach anywhere out of the way.

I wonder if you can mount it to the side of the mount itself with double sticky tape and perhaps a tie wrap to secure it.

If not you can certainly try it on top of the servo. It physically looks like an ideal place for it. These is no guarantee that it will cause any interferance, and, in fact, it may not and may be absolutely fine. Interferance will be easy to detect with failsafe set, the engine running at high idle on the ground and you walking away to see the range. You can mount it on the servo and then dangle it somewhere away and see if there is a difference in range. Give that a try and let us know if you see any issues at all.

As far as the collective arm touching the screw is what I think you are saying you can change the socket head screw with a button head screw. I supply a button head screw in the Spectra-g kit to increase the clearance between the AXI motor itself and the swash antirotation link bolt. If a button head screw will solve it, I can have Chris easily include replacement button head screws in the kits.

Chris, if in fact he finds that the rectifier on the servo is not an option, is it possible to make the mount with some additinal material so people can mount the rectifier? Like maybe extra material on the top plate going forward for this purpose? Or do you have another good place in mind to install the rectifier? Maybe you can look at one of your machines and see where is ideal?

Thanks Lou and do the range check and let us know how it works out.

-=>Raja.

[rbort]

One more thing. I looked through my customer file and I have sold generators to 15 different folks with Bergens. None of them ever asked me about mounting so apparently whatever they did seems to work for them and its possible some are mounting the rectifier on top of the servo.

I don't really want to post names here or email addresses just for the sake of customer privacy, but if any of you guys who own the generators can chime in and comment on how you mounted stuff to help Lou out that will be great.

Thanks all!

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Raja,
Thanks for the input. I tried mounting the rectifier on the mount and found that I have to cut out quite a bit of the canopy to get it to fit. Since this is the top side of the canopy there won't be a lot of material left. I'm afraid that the after doing that I may not have enough material to properly support the canopy and it will split on the side.
In order to avoid the mount problem I was also thinking of drilling a hole above the existing hole so the popsicle clears the bolt and putting a bolt and locking nut on. Do you think that vibration levels from the generator are low enough so the nut won't back off? That certainly would be easiest for me since I'm not sure I can drill and tap the mount properly. :oops:
Once I get this set up done I will test it, hopefully this weekend! :lol:

[rbort]

The generator makes no speakable of vibrations. All of that is from the gasoline motor. Any nut/bolt combo should either be a locknut or locktighted. Did you consider a button head screw for this to see if the popsicle can get by it? The would be the most ideal answer I can give you to try.

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Raja/Chris

The button head screw worked. :) I was lucky that I found one in my bin of nuts and bolts. I also was able to velcro the rectifier to the mount. I also cut out the canopy to clear the rectifier. I took out more material that I'd like, but it worked. The wires are snug as they loop from the generator around the rectifier back to the regulator.

I guess I'll get a chance to test it this weekend. Wish me luck with the flying :?

[rbort]

Sounds excellent on the button head screw! Hey Chris sounds like you probably should supply a button head screw to replace the socket head screw in the next run of the mounts.

Lou, good deal on the rectifier but I'm thinking I may still like you to do a range test with the rectifier mounted on top of the servo. If that works just the same as the rectifier mounted on the mount, then ideally that may be the better place if in fact you don't have to cut the canopy to make it fit. I think people would prefer that solution and if you can comment on how it worked for you and prove that its OK to do that I think alot of other Bergenites would be comfortable to do the same.

In any case let us know how it all works out this weekend and how you like the system in general. :)

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Raja,
I found out I can't mount the rectifier on the servo because of clearance with the canopy. There just isn't enough room when mounting like that so velcroing it to the generator mount is the only choice.

[rbort]

I was thinking about that and thought that might be the case. Herc did post alot of pictures or his Intrepid and I looked through them this morning and the only other possibility may be on the side of the servo instead of the top but not sure if that will clear the canopy either or not.

But looking back on the pictures from Chris in the top post here looks like you should be able to put the rectifier on a slant on the mount following the line of the upper frame. Perhaps that is what you did now.

Anyway go out and fly it and let me know how it all works out. Also if you post some pictures of your installtion after you finalized it I would like to see that.

I was out flying my gasser yesterday, put in 4 more flights on it and my battery that I bought from the WRAM show is showing 5.02v on the C-volt when I land and shut off the motor. This is about where you will have the battery. This particular battery I put in the model after the WRAM show about 4 weeks ago and I only charged it once overnight before going to fly the first day out. Since then I've just been flying and that's it, not charged it since. Usually I tell people to charge the battery overnight when you charge your TX (say every 3 times out flying), but I'm doing this test for myself to see how it works out as I've heard of guys who have flown something like 160 flights + without ever bench charging the rx pack.

-=>Raja.

[MarkWebber]

Raja

How is the battery life with the generators? Since you aren't really draining the pack, I wonder if the life would then be longer?

Sounds like a job for lead acid :D

[lperagallo]

Raja, I flew all weekend. Wind was a challenge but the temps were in the high 70s. I checked the output of the generator at idle and got a reading on 5.32 volts. I have the output plugged into a 'Y' connector since I have no open channels on my RX. At first I didn't notice that the 'Y' connector was in AUX2 the sensor for my GV-1. I decided that might not be good so I moved the 'Y' connector to the channel that the Gryo sensor connects to. That way the power goes directly into the RX since the Gryo is a single wire.
Everything seems to work fine.

[rbort]

Hey guys:

Mark:

Honestly I've been using my old worn out batteries with my generator for the past two years+ since the battery was only for backup purposes and saving the good batteries for the other models without generators. By old I mean that batteries that do not last as long on the field before they go dead if you are flying without a generator. Anyway, recently they got to the point where if I leave them for a good 3 weeks or so without flying they were dying completely (turn switch on and nothing) -- too much internal resistance built up they were destined for the trash!

Well finally when I went to the WRAM show in February I decided to pay up and get some new batteries for my gasser. I found a guy there selling 2200mah NiMH batteries for $20 for two, so I picked up a pair and installed these new packs in my gassers. So now finally I have new batteries to start, but have no real data yet to share with you about how long they last. I would say at least a couple of years but maybe more like 4+ as the ones I was using before were at least 4 years old.

As I was saying above, I haven't charged these NiMH batteries but once with the wall charger overnight. Today I flew 6 more flights, 2 with the 1005 gasser and 4 with my Spectra-g. I checked the batteries now out of curiosity with a voltmeter and they read 5.18v on the 1005 gasser and 5.21v on the Spectra-g (this is no load with RX off checked through charge jack). I also checked my flight counters and the 1005 has 11 flights so far with the new battery pack and the Spectra 14 flights.

Lou:

Anywhere is fine to plug in the generator, even in the mixture port on the governor if you have a gv-1 (you will find that port as a free plug that you never use). This is because if you check your receiver with a voltmeter, all the pins on one side top to bottom are connected together (this is ground). All the pins in the middle are connected together (this is positive), and all the pins on the other side and not connected (this is the signal).

So that being said and the fact that you have a gv-1 you can just get rid of the Y all together and plug the generator into the mixture on the gv-1. This is because the 3 wires that come out of the gv-1 (rpm speed, on/off, and throttle) all share the same power bus as the mixture port and will send the power into the RX through all of them that are plugged in. Check continuety with a voltmeter and you can confirm what I said above.

-=>Raja.

[Johnda]

Here's one I found on another site

and link to the thread http://runryder.com/helicopter/t309361p1/?highlight=bergen

[rbort]

Interesting picture! Looks like my suggestion about putting the rectifier on the side of the servo instead of the top works ok.

What's with the dental floss up front though? :)

-=>Raja.

[cbergen]

Good Dental Hygiene is VERY important!!


(So is proper CG)....... :D

[MarkWebber]

:lolol

[rkeith2]

I just spit out my drink Chris - :lolol :lolol :lolol