Feels slow on "correct" headspeed?

[Nozer]

Hi guys!

Have been flying around with my 500 for a while now. And finally got my HS measured. The android app said ~2900rpm.
Thats i quite a bit of a headspeed. The higher range that i hear ppl use actually..

Well, i couldn´t be more satisfied with the characteristics of the heli. It goes like crazy, and answers good to all commands. Not impossible to get it to bog down, but you have to try hard to get there.

The problem is that i cant get the HS down without loosing performance, and i mean ALOT of performance. If i adjust the throttelcurve to get 2700rpm, the heli is as fun as a 3legged cat.
It bogs all the time, and there is no punch at all.
When you punch the collective, it just gasps and slowly goes away.

Why can´t i get a lower HS and still get a decent performance. I hear a lot of flyers having around 2700 and is satisfiedl. I even hear of ppl flying with 2500 and claim its good.

Want to get the HS down so i can gain some flight time, becuse it sucks to only get 4:30 doing simple sportsflying on a 6s 3000mah lipo.

And suggestions?

/Tobbe

[pxpep]

Maybe you are using a flat throttle "curve" in no-govenor mode?
It is best if the throttle corve is the lowest in the middle and rising to 100% both ways so it is formes like a "v".
Maybe your cellular tachometer is wrong?

[Nozer]

yea. i am using flat curves. always done it. But now might be the time to try a V-curve.
I have doubted the readings from the phone, but on the other hand my ears tell me that it is a pretty high HS.
A real tacho would be nice.

[Gregor99]

What motor, pinion, esc and blades are we talking here? Looking at your sig, I assuming its not stock Align stuff. You may get a better result going to a smaller pinion vs lowering the throttle curve.

[el guapo]

I run a big V curve. I get 4:10 out of 2200mah lipos. and it is fast. i have 3000ma and get 5:40 with them. but its slower with the weight.

I found out that i was eating up a lot of flight time by taking off in idle up. now instead of a normal mode, my first flight mode has the slowest head speed i can do without wiggling. I use that mode for coming in and taking off. that alone gained me 10% more pack.

my curves
N 91-80-91
ST1 93-85-93
ST2 97-87-97

[Tim Lillig]

Hi, you may have already seen this - but heres Alan Szabo flying the original T rex 500 (2008) with a 13T pinion and a 6s 2200 pack. This heli has the original 500L motor - no where near as much power as the likes of the 500MX.

He certainly makes it look plenty fast!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vtHavv9wFo[/ame]

Enjoy

[Mr Nice Guy]

You are getting out of the power band of the motor by lowering the throttle curve. Try dropping a tooth or two on the pinion. That way the motor can still turn the same RPM and spin the blades slower but still make good power. You have over-geared the motor and used the throttle curve to lower the head speed. This is like driving your car in too high of a gear for the speed you are going.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice Guy

You are getting out of the power band of the motor by lowering the throttle curve. Try dropping a tooth or two on the pinion. That way the motor can still turn the same RPM and spin the blades slower but still make good power. You have over-geared the motor and used the throttle curve to lower the head speed. This is like driving your car in too high of a gear for the speed you are going.

That is a very wise statement! I never thought of it like that!

I too am having the same problem and our set-up are quite similar. I think it's the typhoon Motor. I am really starting to think that its robbing alot of juice. I now have an 11t pinion and have yet to up the HS over 90, but I will this weekend and I will let you know how the performance is.

[HeliAxe]

I agree. You have to select the correct toothed pinion to keep your motor in the "sweet spot" of its torque band. This best addresses any bog issue you may have when you punch your heli with a hand full of collective.

I am going through this issue myself now as I am putting together my first T-REX 500 ESP Superior Combo and am thinking of fitting a 14T pinion. Standard is 13T. I like flying with high head speed say 3200. My flying style is general spots flying with loops and flips. No real 3D.

Any ideas from experience anyone? 13T or 14T

[bad007]

You just need a scorp 3026v2 , 500m or mx. Those Turnigy Typhoon 500H motors are week.
I hope the turnigy batteries are at least 30C. My 500 / 500m is fast at 2750, at 13 collective and 10 cylic is pretty quick and no bogging.
Edited,
toss the belt and go TT, way more efficient, less load.

[HeliAxe]

Yes I am using the standard Align 500M Brushless motor withTurnigy nano-tech 2650mA 6S 35~70C Lipo Pack. Also the Align RCE-BL70G 70 AmpBrushless ESC that came with the kit.

Do you think the 14Tmay bog it?

[kwesty2008]

Why do you want 2700hs??
Push it 3000hs.. They come alive then.. And only need 11 degrees.

[HeliAxe]

Kwesty2008, how many tooth pinion are you running on what motor to get 3000hs?

[bad007]

Originally Posted by HeliAxe

I am going through this issue myself now as I am putting together my first T-REX 500 ESP Superior Combo and am thinking of fitting a 14T pinion. Standard is 13T. I like flying with high head speed say 3200. My flying style is general spots flying with loops and flips. No real 3D.

Any ideas from experience anyone? 13T or 14T

3200? WOW that's a bit on the high side, you have a tach or useing a HS calculator?
One thing that allways gets overlooked is the batterys internal resistance, it goes up with age or other contributing factors like over disharging, overheating or taking a hit. and will kill performance. I noticed earlier this spring some packs didn't provide the same punch and invested in a new charger to check the internal resistance even though I allready had 3 and 11 batteries ended up taking a salt water bath. Maybe I just had to many to begin with and where left set around fully charged not being cycled.
If you don't have a charger that can check internal resistance, get one! The nanos are famous for developing high resistance

[Wh1teAfr1can]

Originally Posted by Nozer

yea. i am using flat curves. always done it. But now might be the time to try a V-curve.
I have doubted the readings from the phone, but on the other hand my ears tell me that it is a pretty high HS.
A real tacho would be nice.

If you are referring to "Heli-Headspeed" on Android it is bang on tested it at varying rpms set in govenor mode and in v curves and in all cases it was more acurate than a ~$300 optical tach. you do have to get a little closer to the bird in a hover or at zero pitch on the ground but it does work very well. I would definantly suggest a no wind situation for readings for both better sound travel and a safer close-in hovering environment.

[kwesty2008]

Originally Posted by HeliAxe

Kwesty2008, how many tooth pinion are you running on what motor to get 3000hs?

The turnigy typhoon 1800 kv motor, 13 t pinion and about 95% throttle curve..
It's insane.. It would easily pull 3500 HS to..

[Superior]

Originally Posted by kwesty2008

The turnigy typhoon 1800 kv motor, 13 t pinion and about 95% throttle curve..
It's insane.. It would easily pull 3500 HS to..

Ihave the same motor an on a 13t the most u will get is 3206 on that 13t
An y do you need that much hs I have my ice set for norm 2300-st1 2500-st2 2600 what type of moves are u doing to need 3500hs

[kwesty2008]

I run a higher headspeed and less pitch.. So my amp draw is low. About 5 min flight on a 2650 pack.

[HeliAxe]

I am using a Tacho meter from Hobby King. Seams to be accurate.

I am running 3100-3200 hs on my copterX 450 and am enjoying that head speed. This is my first 500 size.

By the sounds of things I will stick to the 13T that comes with the kit on the 500Motor as I am only sports flying with the odd flip.

[Superior]

But you have to look at the size of bird u can't compare a 450 to a 500 just like on the 500 like 22-2800rpms so u can't compare a 450 to a 500 or a 500 to a 600 an so on. Hell look at a 250 I know guys that get 4k rpm so u can't compare different class helicopters