PDA

View Full Version : Helijive


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

Mystic3D
08-17-2011, 08:07 AM
The Jive 120HV is a good alternate. Overkill for a 600, but smart to buy bigger if you want to ever move it to larger heli.


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WBFAir
08-17-2011, 08:53 AM
I wonder if now that we have gotten the official OKs from both for how this can still be used fine under the right conditions, if any vender who may have been told to pull any existing units from the shelves that may not have sent them back, will now put them back.Hey guys, just to give a update to my own question to as if vendors are going to be putting this back up for sale.

I just check HobbyHut and they are showing it back in stock with all the information about the issues also included in the listing.

If you want one, here is the listing: http://www.hobbyhut.com/Kontronik_Heli_Jive_120_HV_Brushless_ESC_Version_p/helijive120.htm

WBFAir
08-17-2011, 08:57 AM
BTW, what the heck is a constellations anyway?

The def I get from a Google is for stars.

Do you think they've been meaning to say Co-Installations?

jtjohn1
08-17-2011, 09:26 AM
BTW, what the heck is a constellations anyway?

The def I get from a Google is for stars.

Do you think they've been meaning to say Co-Installations?


Probably certain configurations. On a side note 120HV isn't overkill for the SE if you run 10S. A buddy of mine has overamped my SE flying 3d with just the 80HV. He is real carefull when flying it to not shut it down (And why I moved to the 120 to begin with)

WBFAir
08-17-2011, 09:32 AM
In know this is a V-bar forum so I hate to ask here, but seeing as this thread is pretty lively...

For what programming cards to get, if I want them for this ESC, do I essentially need both?

From reading what I can of them, it seems the ProgCard 1 does most of the basic features, and then 2 is for the advanced features of the Jive, so I get that.

But it seems like the 2 doesn't do the basic features the number 1 does as well, or does it?

So for this Jive, if I wanted all the features that I could get from using their cards, would I basically need both?

dl7uae
08-17-2011, 09:59 AM
JIVE or HeliJIVE?

HeliJIVE: ProgDisc is fine for setup of all his features. ProgCard II can be used also (but not necessarily) for JIVE-common advanced options like the programmable BEC voltage. ProgCard I is not supported by the HeliJIVE.

See also here (http://helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=3167376&postcount=19).

Tom

Mystic3D
08-17-2011, 09:59 AM
In know this is a V-bar forum so I hate to ask here, but seeing as this thread is pretty lively...

For what programming cards to get, if I want them for this ESC, do I essentially need both?

From reading what I can of them, it seems the ProgCard 1 does most of the basic features, and then 2 is for the advanced features of the Jive, so I get that.

But it seems like the 2 doesn't do the basic features the number 1 does as well, or does it?

So for this Jive, if I wanted all the features that I could get from using their cards, would I basically need both?

Yes both. And with HeliJive you need Prog disk,(apparently )


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WBFAir
08-17-2011, 10:03 AM
Yes both. And with HeliJive you need Prog disk,(apparently )


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkewww, you mean that frigged $125.00 dollar thing?

WBFAir
08-17-2011, 05:17 PM
Hey guys, just to give a update to my own question to as if vendors are going to be putting this back up for sale.

I just check HobbyHut and they are showing it back in stock with all the information about the issues also included in the listing.

If you want one, here is the listing: http://www.hobbyhut.com/Kontronik_Heli_Jive_120_HV_Brushless_ESC_Version_p/helijive120.htmHey guys, just to give a update to this update, I thought about it and just pulled the plug on a unit from HobbyHut, and after that I checked and saw that its now not showing anymore in stock.

Sorry bout that.

But oh btw, to possibly make up for this a little bit, if anyone is looking for one, I found a place that is selling those ProgDisk's for $109.99

https://www.tammieshobbies.com/litecommerce/cart.php?target=product&product_id=3242&category_id=60

I just ordered one over the phone so I couldn't tell you what stock they have left, or what their shipping rates are like, but their sending it UPS ground, so it can't be that bad.

Justin Stuart
08-17-2011, 06:02 PM
I want to know exactly what we need the ProgDisc for. I have the ProgCard I and II. Once upon a time I used the ProgCard I to shorten the spoolup time of the Jive, but found it to be best in the stock 12 sec setting. I often use the ProgDisc II to up the BEC to 6.0V.

Are there any other features the ProgDisc allows for with the HeliJive? It's not like you can update the firmware with the ProgDisc.

helicraze
08-17-2011, 06:06 PM
Nope nothing, kinda a shame, kontronik is living in the past man

WBFAir
08-17-2011, 06:18 PM
Good find on the price of the ProgDisc. But I want to know exactly what we need the ProgDisc for. I have the ProgCard I and II. Once upon a time I used the ProgCard I to shorten the spoolup time of the Jive, but found it to be best in the stock 12 sec setting. I often use the ProgDisc II to up the BEC to 6.0V.

Are there any other features the ProgDisc allows for with the HeliJive? It's not like you can update the firmware with the ProgDisc.Don't quote me on all this stuff as I'm all pretty new and green to this line of products but essentially one of the things that is a part of the the ProgDisc (provided it has the latest firmware) is programing they are somewhat calling the virtual ProgCard 3.

Even though I don't believe there even is a hard card ProgCard 3

So as mentioned, the hard card ProgCard 1 does not even work on the HeliJive, the hardcard ProgCard 2 does some of the features and yes, only with the ProgDisc which contains the ProgCard 3 is the only thing that does some of the other features such as I think activate, and make adjustments to the Bailout part.

For me one of the best things I found so far in regards to this, even though it doesn't say much was this pdf.

http://www.kontronikusa.com/images/Differences%20between%20POWERJIVE%20and%20HELI%20J IVE.pdf


Then as well, these vids seem to give me some in sight too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoaqAhKCUKQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgElxXaTxJY

So unless I'm wrong on something some where, which is entirely possible, essentially, if you don't have the ProgDisc, you can't get all of the features of the Heli version of the Jive.

prototype3a
08-17-2011, 07:43 PM
ProgCard 1 was a basic programming device Kony developed a while ago to allow access to additional features. ProgCard 2 expanded on this. The ProgDisc is Kontronik's updateable device to service any future devices. I have one and it is pretty nice but only necessary if you want to change "advanced" options. When you connect it to an older (Jazz/Jive) it asks you if you want to enter ProgCard 1 mode or ProgCard 2 mode. If you connect it to a Koby, it recognizes it and takes you to the Koby specific menus. I would guess that the HeliJive will have a special set of menus as well.

Honestly, all I have used mine for is updating the firmware on my Kobys, decreasing the spool up time from 12s to 10s and increasing the BEC voltage.

Just to be clear I have used it on all my Kontronik ESCs.

These include:
Jazz 40, 55, 80
Jive 80hv
Koby 70, 90

As it stands, I plan on upgrading from my Jive 80hv to the HeliJive 80hv when it becomes available.

Mystic3D
08-17-2011, 08:06 PM
ProgCard 1 was a basic programming device Kony developed a while ago to allow access to additional features. ProgCard 2 expanded on this. The ProgDisc is Kontronik's updateable device to service any future devices. I have one and it is pretty nice but only necessary if you want to change "advanced" options. When you connect it to an older (Jazz/Jive) it asks you if you want to enter ProgCard 1 mode or ProgCard 2 mode. If you connect it to a Koby, it recognizes it and takes you to the Koby specific menus. I would guess that the HeliJive will have a special set of menus as well.

Honestly, all I have used mine for is updating the firmware on my Kobys, decreasing the spool up time from 12s to 10s and increasing the BEC voltage.

Just to be clear I have used it on all my Kontronik ESCs.

These include:
Jazz 40, 55, 80
Jive 80hv
Koby 70, 90

As it stands, I plan on upgrading from my Jive 80hv to the HeliJive 80hv when it becomes available.

Proto. Surprised you dont change hard cutoff to soft. Reason I might want to know??


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

prototype3a
08-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Oh. Forgot about that one. Yup. Changed that too. :D

Justin Stuart
08-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Soft cutoff is not a default setting?

Mystic3D
08-17-2011, 10:00 PM
Soft cutoff is not a default setting?

Hard Cut is default


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dl7uae
08-18-2011, 02:45 AM
Hard Cut is default.
It isn't. Soft cutoff with all heli modes, and this is the case with the JAZZs, "normal" JIVEs and HeliJIVE. Just use stick to setup a heli-related mode and you will have soft cutoff automatically.

Default ist APM (of course). Thus you'll see hard cutoff - with an initially unprogrammed ESC.

MrMel
08-18-2011, 02:47 AM
Pretty sure when doing Lipo Mode on Jazz/Jive it swap to hard cutoff as default and that you need ProgCard to swap .

dl7uae
08-18-2011, 05:48 AM
ProgDisc (It's all not that complex as it seems to be.)

Are there any other features the ProgDisc allows for with the HeliJive?
Yes, see below or just read the HeliJIVE manual.

Nope nothing, kinda a shame, kontronik is living in the past man.
You know exactly? ;)

K started with ProgCard I for advanced setup of JAZZ, and later of JIVE also.
They added ProgCard II for new features of the JIVE.

Now the KOBY came in between, last the HeliJIVE, next will be probably the COSMIC - and so on...

Each new ESC has some different and especially more and new functions which need or may need advanced setup.

K decided not to continue an evolution of the ProgCard, III, IV etc - than to move on a flexible progtool, updatable by the user, - to the ProgDisc. Once a ProgDisc is purchased all future programming functionality (software) is free. I for myself at least find this a good and much better solution than a bunch of more or less specialized ProgCards.

And: Don't forget. Once an ESC is in the hands of users there is no chance to change the setup protocol for a new progtool. Each new progtool has to be downwards compatible.
And also: The STM Primer is a proper platform for moving on software-defined progtools - but a few yrs ago those platforms were not available already.

The practical side of the ProgDisc:

Consequentially ProgCard I and II are implemented in software (to be used w/ JAZZ and JIVE).

Consequentially there is a programming chapter for the KOBY, as well as for online updates of the KOBY.

Consequentially we have a special programming tab for the HeliJIVE.

(Means: If you have a ProgDisc you automatically have ALL of the progtools - of the history, of the future (by updates for the ProgDisc).)

The HeliJIVE is much more than mode 8, there're new modes 3, 6 and 10 (besides 4), mode 11 is redefined as 5, mode 10 as 9, - and we have support for bail out. The setup of all these new functions is done by the HeliJIVE tab of the ProgDisc. Although you even can do the BEC voltage setup by this you may alternatively use the ProgCard II tab for that (or a ProgCard II in hardware if you have and prefer to use for).

Tom

Justin Stuart
08-18-2011, 07:50 AM
It seems then that if I am going to start flying HeliJives in my Auroras, I will definitely need to get the ProgDisc. Thanks for the clarification.

Mystic3D
08-18-2011, 10:54 AM
Pretty sure when doing Lipo Mode on Jazz/Jive it swap to hard cutoff as default and that you need ProgCard to swap .

That would make sense as I always do Modes 1,4,9 then soft cut with Prog card on jazz 40, 55, Jive 80, Jive 120.
Maybe it's different on HeliJive


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dl7uae
08-18-2011, 03:46 PM
Pretty sure when doing Lipo Mode on Jazz/Jive it swap to hard cutoff as default and that you need ProgCard to swap.
That would make sense as I always do Modes 1,4,9 then soft cut with Prog card on jazz 40, 55, Jive 80, Jive 120.
Maybe it's different on HeliJive
Visually: Yes.
Functionally: No.

"Cutoff" in every heli mode means spooldown within 30 seconds.

Same with the HeliJIVE.

It's a bit stupid made, yes, but has to do with the difference to airplane modes. Not easy to make if you only showup w/ two alternatives in a display (Disc) or using a single LED (Card).

Main reason for that: "Mode" is a naming for a predefined set of functions for setup by stick - whereas a Card or the Disc doing the setup of the individual functions. A ProgCard or ProgDisc does not get information on a "mode" from the ESC than on setup of all those individual functions.

And, in the end: In a heli mode "hard" and "soft" cutoff is simply the same. No need to explicitely change to "soft".

futurase
08-18-2011, 04:59 PM
Justin,
You have to have the new progdisc to setup auto bailout on the new Heli jive. Can't do it with the stick.

I am a HARDCORE Kontronik fan and won't own anything else, but it does gripe me to buy a $550 ESC and turn around and need a $100+ programmer to make all the functions work one the ESC I just bought.:mad:

If the programmer could update the firmware then, I would have no probelm buying one at all.

Norman Ross Jr.

alexf1852
08-18-2011, 05:08 PM
Visually: Yes.
Functionally: No.

"Cutoff" in every heli mode means spooldown within 30 seconds.

Same with the HeliJIVE.

It's a bit stupid made, yes, but has to do with the difference to airplane modes. Not easy to make if you only showup w/ two alternatives in a display (Disc) or using a single LED (Card).

Main reason for that: "Mode" is a naming for a predefined set of functions for setup by stick - whereas a Card or the Disc doing the setup of the individual functions. A ProgCard or ProgDisc does not get information on a "mode" from the ESC than on setup of all those individual functions.

And, in the end: In a heli mode "hard" and "soft" cutoff is simply the same. No need to explicitely change to "soft".


When you set mode 4 or mode 11 in regular Jive, it is soft cut-off like you said. But the cell type is not Lipo. If you then set Lipo mode 9, it changes the cut-off type to hard according to what I saw on the LEDs on the programming card. I can't remember when I checked this on my Jive if it was with version 7 or 9 firmware.