T600 SUPER diet! Paris Hilton Skinny *Update w/ Pics+Results

[Striker]

Hey Guys,
Just had some ideas about how you could drop say another 1/2 to 1lb off of a Trex 600.

My HFE CF weights 6lbs 11.2oz right now with batt. My goal is to get it UNDER 6lbs with battery.

Here are some of my ideas:
1) Get rid of boom supports and horz stab. The CF boom is so incredibly rigid I think this one just might work.

2) Move tail servo all the way out to the end of the tail. I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't work. You'd lose all the weight of the metal linkages and plastic boom attachments.

3) Cut out most of battery tray back piece. Not really needed with velcro+straps.

4) Cut front piece that is normally under the battery. Again this is not really needed with velcro+straps.

5) New/No canopy. The canopy weighs 4.7oz and is not a necessity.

6) Go Flybarless. Take out all extra head pieces and cut main shaft down 1inch or so. This could be LOTS of weight depending on how much weight the gyros add.

7) Upper Tray in rear. This is not needed as there is plenty of space elsewhere in the heli.

8) Landing gear seem like they could be lightened with a CF set. Also the skids can go as well. As long as you land smoothly they seem unnecessary to me.

9) Glue or clips instead of heavy metal screws for frame pieces. I understand the need say for the motor mount but other places do not seem to NEED the heavy screws to stay together. IMHO.

10) Remove bottom bearing/bearing block. Also shorten the main shaft for extra gain. Not sure about this one, maybe the upper bearings would need to be stronger??


So tell me what you think. Which of these will kill me? LOL

Any other ideas you've had??

Just image how insane an 8s machine would be at 6lbs flying weight!!!!

[arclite5]

I think the part that's gonna kill you is the whole "Who needs screws when you can just use glue ?!"

-Kyle

[Ticidytoc]

Post some pictures when you get it done.

[MrMel]

You dont say what components you are using...
Much can probably be gained with right motor/esc/bec/receiver combination.
(For sample a CC85HV is much heavier then Jazz 55-10-32)

VBar/VStabi unit saves alot since you dont need any other gyro.

There is companies manufacturing titan screws, replace all metal screws in the whole kit with titan and you will gain alot (even your wallet will be lighter)

CF landinggear will save you much.

[Taipan]

Tail servo on end of boom would work the tail harder as it creates more momentum that needs to be stopped & accelerated quickly. Plus be very tail heavy.

Wonder how long it will stay in one piece?? :mrgreen:

[kenkamm]

Just a note: Aluminum booms are actually stiffer than the carbon ones. Common misconception.

[Rotorworkz]

Ditch the steel screws for aluminum that will cut screw weight nearly half I have been thinking on making CF Landing gear

[Hitch]

Paris Hilton skinny? I think you mean Nicole Ritchey skinny.

:oops: im so ashamed....

[Striker]

Ditch the steel screws for aluminum that will cut screw weight nearly half I have been thinking on making CF Landing gear

Where can I find a set of alum for T600?

Have any idea the total weight saved?

Thanks,
Eric

[dva]

you can get some Titanium screws that will save some weight. When I was flying CL Speed one of my fiends replaced all his engine screws with Titanium, added some mag and plastic parts to his Nelson 40 and dropped the weight about 2-3 oz. That is a lot of weight when a plane only weighs 24 oz. If you want to drop some weight I would start with the canopy, new shape/plastic like RC car bodies. May save about 3 oz here.

DVA

[NTM]

Honestly you'd end up with a nicer machine, with a superior power to weight ratio, and maybe even save some money, by selling the rex and going to a mikado logo 14.

[kenkamm]

:roll:

Cracks me up how the logo guys come into the Trex threads and suggest ditching the Trex in favor of a logo.

:roll:

[NTM]

I'm being quite serious, with no offence intended.

My logo 14 weighs in at 6pounds 9 ounces as well.
Except it's running 10s 3700s with the fairly hefty hacker a50-14s, has an eagletree datalogger with temp,rpm, and power panel display, and the heavier fiberglass canopy on board.
It would take a stripped down, weakened rex 600 on 8 cells, at 6 pounds flying weight, to approach the power to weight ratio of my current logo 14 with all the trimmings.

You have a pretty nice rex600, just figured you could turn a pretty good buck for it, and start with a heli that is already lighter, in the same blade class, rather than monkeying around stripping the rex down and making compromises in the name of weight savings :dontknow .

Again, no offence intended, just my opinion.

[kenkamm]

Stripped down, maybe. Stripped of bell-cranks and some superfluous plastic parts. Weakened, no. If anything, the alternate frame sets save weight and add strength.

One has to remember one important aspect of the Trex... cost. Start-up cost is lower as is crash cost and for some people, that is a heavily weighted factor.

Cheers,
Ken

[NTM]

Hey Guys,

1) Get rid of boom supports and horz stab. The CF boom is so incredibly rigid I think this one just might work.

2) Move tail servo all the way out to the end of the tail. I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't work. You'd lose all the weight of the metal linkages and plastic boom attachments.



5) New/No canopy. The canopy weighs 4.7oz and is not a necessity.





8) Landing gear seem like they could be lightened with a CF set. Also the skids can go as well. As long as you land smoothly they seem unnecessary to me.

9) Glue or clips instead of heavy metal screws for frame pieces. I understand the need say for the motor mount but other places do not seem to NEED the heavy screws to stay together. IMHO.

10) Remove bottom bearing/bearing block. Also shorten the main shaft for extra gain. Not sure about this one, maybe the upper bearings would need to be stronger??




Just image how insane an 8s machine would be at 6lbs flying weight!!!!


That sounds pretty weakened, and compromised to me ! :shock:

I absolutely agree with you on the cost thing, I'm thinking about picking one up for just that reason. I've been flying my buddies and liking it.

I'm not here to convert the trex 600 masses, they're an awesome heli and have they're place. I just figured if Striker was going to go all out trying to build a high powered, super light weight 600mm bladed heli, the logo14 might be a better place to start. They're not that much more money, if more money at all, when you factor in the investment, he has in the rex already.


Regards,
Nathan

[kenkamm]

Those are things that are being suggested by the original poster for radical weight savings... thinking outside the box. They are not required to bring a Trex down to logo weight.

1) I haven't seen anyone remove the boom braces, even on the lightest Trexes around.
2) Interesting idea, but again, haven't seen it done in the name of weight savings.
5) Doesn't compromise the integrity of the machine
8) CF skids could be lighter AND stronger, no?
9) Hmm... sounds like a logo... with no screws securing the cross braces.
10) Hmm... reminds me of another logo design feature.

Overall the Trex is not that hard to bring down to 6 lb 9 oz, without losing integrity of the airframe. Simply equipping it similar to a logo will get you very close (lose the bell-cranks, small servos, carbon fins, etc.) In fact I would argue that with that weight, it would be a tougher machine than the logo. The frames have thicker sections, for example, and all cross bracing is secured with screws.

Not trying to argue either. Just some good discussion. I agree that upgrading a Trex could get expensive, if done wrong. On the whole, though, as we agreed, parts are reasonably priced.

Regards,
Ken

[NTM]

Overall the Trex is not that hard to bring down to 6 lb 9 oz, without losing integrity of the airframe.


On flightpower 10s 3700s with a 13oz motor ?

I've had this 14 flying on the same 2200 watts most rex 600s are floating around on in 6s configuration, at a ready to fly weight of 5.5 pounds.

Those are things that are being suggested by the original poster for radical weight savings... thinking outside the box. They are not required to bring a Trex down to logo weight.


I disagree, those things are necessary to get it close to the logo 14 weight.
The 14 has a reputation for not crashing well because it's designed to deal with flight stresses, it's very rigid where it needs to be and there is no excess where it doesn't need it. If higher grade materials can be used to trim excess weight, they were used. Compare the swashplates between the two side by side, the rex one looks like an anvil compared to the higher grade aluminum, precisely machined one of the logo 14. I'd guess the 14's would be at least a third the weight.
There's alot of little things like that, that are not readily apparent, unless you have the two sitting side by side in front of you. It's not as simple as swapping the side frames to go to smaller servos on the rex 600, to get the airframe down to the logo 14's weight.

If you hacked the rex up to the point that Striker is suggesting, I can guarantee the logo 14 would be far stiffer, and fly better. No boom supports ? No landing skids, just struts ? No bottom bearing ?


Not trying to argue either. Just some good discussion. I agree that upgrading a Trex could get expensive, if done wrong. On the whole, though, as we agreed, parts are reasonably priced.



Good discussion, exactly, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I like it when people think outside the box and push the envelope a bit.
I'd just hate to see Striker spend a bunch of time and money, and end up with less than he expected. To merely offer an alternative that may suit his needs (wants :mrgreen: ) better was the intention of my original post, I wasn't trying to insult anyone's baby or stir up any trouble :hug:

You can bug me about the fact that my logo 14 pretty much needs to be rekitted after a crash, no matter how severe it was, if you like :mrgreen:


Nathan

[kenkamm]

Fair enough. I am going based on what I have read regarding weight savings for the Trex 600 here. I concede I have not had the two machines side by side nor had all these parts on a scale.

I appreciate light weight and I have thought about doing some weight reduction on my Trex 600, but I wouldn't take measures that would weaken it because I like the fact that the machine holds up reasonably well to crashes. From the tests I have done on my machine I can't really tell the difference when I few ounces are shed- I'd rather have the strength at that point.

One thing that bugs me a bit about the logo 14 is that the frames look like they were designed for aesthetics first and function second. Very pretty and all, but those frames probably could have been made both lighter and stiffer if those long thin unsupported sections were straightened and connected here and there. :D

[Striker]

Hey Guys,
I would love to get a logo 14 and it will probibly be my next helicopter. For now my mission is to see what is possible with the T600.

So far I have been able to get the weight with batt down to 6lbs, 1.5oz!!!!

The big things left that I haven't messed with are the landing gear, and the flybarless system.

The BIG places I see for weight loss are in the landing gear and in the canopy. These together are around 9 oz!!!

Are there any options for either of these?

If you could lighten these plus go flybarless you could run 8s4900 batts for LONG POWERFULL flight times.

Anyways my computer is down right now. As soon as I can I will post pictures of the set-up.

Thanks,
Eric

[brettlw]

When designers put something on there creation it's usually there for a reason. Safety being the most noticeable. If you want something lighter buy a Blade CP. If you want more flight time buy a larger battery pack. Spending all that money just to hack it to bits doesn't make sence to me.

[kenkamm]

Striker, that's very light. Perhaps post some text on what you did to lighten your Trex until you can show us some pics. :)

[Cryofix]

I love my Logo 10 but wouldnt give my 600 up for it, i know its a 30 sized but still....

Also I just put my logo 10 in the dirt the other day and it cost me $248 for all the part of the repair when the kit cost $199

[Ticidytoc]

Ever compare a Trex 600 spindle to a logo ? :rolling

Lighter than 6lbs 9oz may not be as difficult to achieve as you may think.

[kenkamm]

No, I haven't. Are you saying the Logo spindle is a lot lighter?

[Striker]

Alright guys, sorry for the delay in posting. I had a computer crash and lost all my weight info and pictures from the setup. I have taken more pics and weighed what I could.

Weights:
Tail supports and horz stabi 37grams
tail servo links 23grams
bearingblock 20grams
vert stabi 13 grams
back radio tray 8grams
bottom plastic piece 45grams
white gear 62grams
black gear 64grams
skids 43grams
canopy 135grams

Total weight I was able to remove from these things:
Total saved 300grams or 10.58oz

So with HFE, CF boom, CF paddles, 550 blades, all the other mods you CAN have an extremely powerful TREX 600 that is UNDER 6lbs

My findings in testing:
After flying with this machine in it's Paris Hilton state I decided to reinstall the tail supports and move the servo back because I was having horrible tail problems. While rebuilding I noticed the one of my tail blade grips was almost totally coming off of the tail hub. This was the reason I was having such horrible tail problems. Surprising that it flew at all. Now the problem is I'm not 100% sure this was caused by the parts I removed. I may have to remove them again and give it a try.

The bird still flew great but just didn't seem quite as "solid". This could have been in my head but it's what I felt while flying.

One surprising thing was that I didn't notice any downside to having the tail servo out on the end of the boom. The bird actually ended up nose heavy instead of tail heavy. That was a surprise for sure.

Overall I think that align did a great job with weight vs. strength. Each part I took off or modified I could see why it was where it was and generally the parts are worth the weight for what they provide.

Final thoughts:
I LOVE how sexy and simple the heli looks in it's "Paris Hilton" State.

The landing gear and canopy weigh almost 9oz together. These both can to be lightened to save 4.5oz total.

I think removing the middle bearing block would probably be better than removing the bottom block like I did.

Replacing all the steel bold with a titanium set would yield a significant weight savings as well..without weakening the heli at all.

a Flybarless system would save SOOO much weight it seems like a great way to go to me. It is also much more efficient ... there are less parts to break..no need to worry about flybar tracking etc etc etc.

If a cost effective flybarless solution comes along it will not be hard to have a TREX 600 that is running 8s 5000mah batteries for 7-8 minute flight times all under 6 pounds without weakening the bird at all. This is still my ultimate goal!

Let me know what you think!!!

Peace,
Eric James