Introduction - new to helicopters

[CraterMaker]

Hi all, I have one of the SA combos on order from Horizon. The 450SA + 35G ESC + 430L 3550 combo. This will be either one of the most exciting or foolish things I've ever done: This will be my first Helicopter!

Not going in completely blind, however. I have experience building and flying balsa parkflyers, building and driving electric trucks, and flying helicopters in G3 for a year. Tried a blade CX2 at the LHS and it was too boring. Decided to get something better. Thought about a blade CP or PRO, but decided to just go ahead and get the SA.

I've downloaded all the Finless videos and I have a pretty good idea what servos, gyro, and batts to get, reading here and other places. I am getting excited! Wish me luck...

I will post here again when I decide what electronics to get, before I click on the "purchase" button to have a peer review before I make a mistake. :)

Please feel free to give me any advice based on the above ramblings... (I'm sure I'll have lots of specific questions later)

[Billigan]

The T-Rex is a great heli to learn on.
Feel free to ask anything. Anything at all on this fourm. Welcome!

[Seeker]

Welcome CraterMaker,

You have a great start there. Feel free to ask away! We're here to help as well as let you cry on our shoulder when things don't work out :shock:

Hey... it happens to all of us :arggg:

[WayneBrown]

Ask your CC company for a lower rate and an increase in credit.
Put A/C in the doghouse, You WILL need it. :D

[BarracudaHockey]

Check out the finless vids for your Trex and let us know if you have any questions.

Welcome to the freak. :hug:

[CraterMaker]

Thanks guys! I'm getting into the deep end of the pool... :mrgreen:

[akeepsake]

Im with ya cratermaker,I brought the cx2 on a compulsive buying spree and got bored real fast and have jumped in the deep end right along side of you with a trex450se with a Dx7 Radio, hitec65 servos, futaba Gy401 gyro and S9560 tail servo. Been fun to build and a huge learning curve as this is my first rc anything (apart from the cx2) I found (like BarracudaHockey) the finless vids invaluable and as a newcomer to this furum as well I am hooked ! Everyone is so helpful
About to give the rex its maiden flight just need to get a pitch gauge to set up curves etc!
Keep me posted on your progress........
cheers
Andrew :fly

[CraterMaker]

I hope your maiden flight goes well! I'm still waiting for my trex to arrive. Making and refining my shopping list for tools and electronics meanwhile.

[kgfly]

Both foolish and exciting :mrgreen:

Setup
If you have read around you know the recommended setup is 3 x HS-65MG, Futaba GY401 + S9650. If you are a little more daring (and why not, this whole thing is a deep-end jump) you could get the new king-of-the-gyro-hill, Logictech 2100T + JR DS3400G. For blades nothing beats Align Pro 325 woodies or TechMP 325 woodies for price/performance and crash friendly behaviour (they break and absorb some of the energy that tougher blades transmit to the heli causing more damage).

{Edit - Note that the L2100T is not rated for 6V so if you have a 6V BEC like on the 35X ESC that comes with the SEv2 you would need a step-down regulator like this one: http://www.wattsuprc.com.au/product_detail.asp?pid=K10333A or else just put a 1A power diode in series with the +ve lead of the servo wire to the gyro.}

Be sure to get some spares when you pick up your kit. At least blades, flybars, main shafts, feathering shafts, main gears, main grips, main bearings, fins, tail case (or just get the metal tailcase the first time you break the plastic one).

For chargers I recommend:
Budget 2S-4S LiXx only: FMA CellPro4S (dc only, 45W/3A)
Budget 2S-6S multi-chemistry full featured low power: eStation BC6 (ac/dc, 50W/5A)
Most convenient multi-chemistry full featured mid-range (2S-8S): eStation BC8 (dc only, 150W/7A)
Best value multi-chemistry full featured high-power/future proofing (2S-12S): Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 (dc only, 180W/10A)

For learning I suggest:
* Finless videos here on helifreak
* RADDs flight school: http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html
* Make some training gear and use it
* Get a sim
- FMS is free and OK to start
- ClearView is $30 and outstanding value with great graphics, good physics and most of the features of the market leaders at a fraction of the price (see recent review on trextuning.com)
- Phoenix, Reflex/XTR, RealFlight G3.5 are the market leaders and all great. I prefer Phoenix at the moment.

Happy shopping.

[kgfly]

Oops, I see you have G3 already, that's great.

[CraterMaker]

Yeah, I think the consensus is the 3 x HS-65MG, Futaba GY401 + S9650. I think that the SA comes with the 325 wood blades? (I'm sure I need spares though).

I guess I haven't really considered spares, other than blades. (man, am I optomistic or, more likely, foolhardy :) )

I have a Triton charger which I've been using for 3S and a TP balancer. As long as I don't have to go over 3S, I should be o.k. Providing my TP balancer can be used. It's compatible with TP (of course) and CS battery packs (with adapter).

It might still be a while before I get it flying. I need to budget battery and electronics. None of the lipos I have now can go over 17A continuous, which I'm pretty sure is not sufficient.

[kgfly]

If you want the best batteries then its FP, TP or maybe Hyperion. Otherwise there are lots of cheaper options which are good for learning. Check out DNPower, www.truerc.com and unitedhobbies.com.

[Pinecone]

The Triton goes to 4S, the Triton2 goes to 5S. Triton is a nice all in one charger (Lipo, NiMH, NiCD, and Lead Acid charger).

Tech Model Products blades are good and inexpensive ($28 for 3 sets).

The JR DS3400G is the top tail servo right now, but more expensive than the S9650. FOr starting out, you can even run an analog servo like the HS81 and it will work fine, then upgrade to a good digital later.

[kgfly]

The Triton is OK but AFAIK doesn't do A123 (LiFe). Personally I wouldn't consider buying a new charger that doesn't do LiFe as I believe it is a technology that will continue to evolve and become more and more common for R/C. I think that Great Planes just picked up the distribution rights for A123 which is a sign of them becoming mainstream. Just my opinion, others may disagree.

[kgfly]

Note that the L2100T is not rated for 6V so if you have a 6V BEC like on the 35X ESC that comes with the SEv2 you would need a step-down regulator like this one: http://www.wattsuprc.com.au/product_detail.asp?pid=K10333A or else just put a 1A power diode in series with the +ve lead of the servo wire to the gyro.

My thanks to Hughes500Bob for reminding me of this issue.

[Pinecone]

Actually I think Horizon gat A123, Great Planes got Flight Power. :)

[akeepsake]

Hey Cratermaker Just put some air between the ground and the Trex for the first time!!!!
A bit (Alot!)scary after the CX2 was a bit windy though !!!
Am about to constuct some training gear which I know will settle the nerves a bit.....
does anyone have any dimensions for the ideal set up for trex450 training gear?
i was thinking of using carbon rods and some practice golf balls????
have to sit and relax now till my battery charges Phewwwwww? :wow2:

[kgfly]

I used 2 x 3mm x 500mm CF rod together with golf training balls held on with fuel tube and plastic washers. 500mm is not as wide as most (it falls inside the rotor disk) but the rods came in 1000mm lengths and I was on a budget. Worked fine for me. For more protection you probably want 750-800mm.

[akeepsake]

Thanks again Kenneth! I took your advice and got a heap of spares Just as well have already done in a blade and a main shaft!!! No pain ,no gain!!
I wont attempt any more flights till the morning when I can hit the lhs and get some rods! Touchy little beasts aren't they. I have a question does the flybar weights set all the way out cause a delayed (dosile ) elevator/airalon response besause of the (gyro effect) The little hovering I have done causes me to feel it does unless it is just because of ground effect??? (a foot off the ground) Would be interested to hear feedback on this :dontknow

[Seeker]

Thanks again Kenneth! I took your advice and got a heap of spares Just as well have already done in a blade and a main shaft!!! No pain ,no gain!!
I wont attempt any more flights till the morning when I can hit the lhs and get some rods! Touchy little beasts aren't they. I have a question does the flybar weights set all the way out cause a delayed (dosile ) elevator/airalon response besause of the (gyro effect) The little hovering I have done causes me to feel it does unless it is just because of ground effect??? (a foot off the ground) Would be interested to hear feedback on this :dontknow

Yes, flybar weights all the way out to the paddles would create a "softer" less responsive cyclic.

[akeepsake]

Thanks paul I think I will move them in a tad as i want to be able to have quicker response while learning. Might sound strange but I feel like i can get out of hot water faster or maybe it's a case of out of the frying pan into the fire!! Time(and plenty of spares) will tell...... :glasses2:
cheers

[kgfly]

Andrew,

I found that expo and the flybar weights all the way out made it too stable to be able to recover quickly when things went wrong. After crashing into the bushes at the end of the garden twice I wised up. For a while I was using 0% expo and weights half way along the flybar to the paddles and that was a good compromise for me. After I removed the weights I was flying with 15% expo on the cyclic.

[akeepsake]

yeah thats how it feels very stable but sliggish to change direction
by the way can you explain expo (are you talking about sensitivity at centre stick .....is there any vidios on it Bob doesnt talk about it much on the setups I have the dx7 so would be the same as yours?? :dontknow

[kgfly]

Andrew,

Expo(nential) is a programming adjustment that you can set in the Tx to control the sensitivity at centre stick. On JR/Spektrum, positive expo percentages reduce sensitivity while negative values increase it. On Futaba it is opposite.

Expo can be applied to AIL, ELE or RUD channels. If you go to the appropriate menu in your DX7 and play with the setting you will see how it affects the output curve.

Expo settings are roughly equivalent across all Tx. My recommendation would be to only make one change at a time and make it gradual. So either move the weights or add expo but not both at once. For example (assuming you have zero expo currently):

1) Move weights in to half way and test hover. Get a feel for the new level of response

2) Add 10% expo to AIL and ELE. Test hover. Can you feel the difference ? Is it good or bad ? Repeat this step till you like what you feel (although over 30% expo would be very unusual in my experience). You may find you like some expo or no expo but IMO don't try negative expo, just move the weights further in if you want more responsiveness

3) Fly two or three batteries at the new setting and see if you like it. If not, adjust appropriately

BTW, I use 10% to 20% expo on the rudder because I fly mode2 and it prevents unintentional rudder input when moving the throttle/collective.

[akeepsake]

Andrew,

Expo(nential) is a programming adjustment that you can set in the Tx to control the sensitivity at centre stick. On JR/Spektrum, positive expo percentages reduce sensitivity while negative values increase it. On Futaba it is opposite.

Expo can be applied to AIL, ELE or RUD channels. If you go to the appropriate menu in your DX7 and play with the setting you will see how it affects the output curve.

Expo settings are roughly equivalent across all Tx. My recommendation would be to only make one change at a time and make it gradual. So either move the weights or add expo but not both at once. For example (assuming you have zero expo currently):

1) Move weights in to half way and test hover. Get a feel for the new level of response

2) Add 10% expo to AIL and ELE. Test hover. Can you feel the difference ? Is it good or bad ? Repeat this step till you like what you feel (although over 30% expo would be very unusual in my experience). You may find you like some expo or no expo but IMO don't try negative expo, just move the weights further in if you want more responsiveness

3) Fly two or three batteries at the new setting and see if you like it. If not, adjust appropriately

BTW, I use 10% to 20% expo on the rudder because I fly mode2 and it prevents unintentional rudder input when moving the throttle/collective.Thanks again ken I will start with the weights tommorow and go from there
(after the training gear is fitted of coarse!) and when I have a go I will get back to you :noteworthy
Thanks for the tip on expos . I had a good look at the menu after your last post and am understanding more clearly now (I think) Do you set your throttle curves on expo as well?
BTW does anyone in Aus sell gorilla landing gear or do I have to get it via RC Hover :?: