ohh boy, failsafe; why did I lower it?!?

[Cryofix]

I am not saying anything bad and not knocking 0 failsafes!

I finally set my fail safe to 0 on my throttle instead of 53% due to the advice of pretty much everyone, and after an incident when I shut my TX off without unplugging the battery (Sorry ClayK). Let me tell you the tail blades are STRONG on the stock Logo, casue they ripped through 6 or 7 plastic organizers and didn't have a scratch.

I went to go take pictures of my local field for my club the other day, they are having a mall show for Helis and planes and thought it would be great to get them a nice 20 x 30 photo of the field; so I took my rig out and ran a test flight.

I had problems with glitching before but it was quick hits nothing major, my AP2000i told me I had 52 glitches in one 3 minute flight, I made adjustments, cleaned stuff up, got it down to 2 glitches in a 6 minute flight.

I take her out for my test flight and all is well, hovering nice, feels alittle loose, I flip auto calibrate on, hit my slider and she feels all sorts of funny, I quick pull my slider down and she is all over the place, sluggish on response and all of a sudden the heli shoots up 10 or 15 more feet on its own and then PLUMMETS full neg 7-8 degree pitch right into the ground.

I am assuming this has happened before to me with bad glitching, but having the failsafe at 53% has dangerously saved my bird without me knowing, however this time 0 failsafe on the throttle has destroyed my bird.

XPS modules are hopefully no more than 2 weeks away, and I am in a great debate on whether to buy another logo 10 kit, buy parts, or wait for the 500DX.

On a side note, I have to thank Askman for a great product! this was a 40-45 foot direct high speed drop to the ground, and as far as the mount was concerned I broke both left side legs and skidd, everything else was still in great shape!

Ill post a pic, after I am done crying :D

[DebianDog]

I thought you had an SS radio?

[Cryofix]

I use 9 channels to run my AP, using a 9303 w 649 Spcm

[lakespinner2]

Sorry to hear about the glitching. I know how scary some glitching was on my Logo 10 the past few weeks. My glitching was mostly in pitch but not always. It may be unrelated to your situation but who knows.

I had maybe 30 or 40 flights on the logo 10 and never had a glitch. I decided to stretch the boom and run 550 blades on it. After the stretch it would start glitching as soon as it got spooled up to takeoff speed. I took it to the field 4 times and never got it off the grass, too skeerd to risk it.

I first tried to blame the ap2000i and replaced it with a new spare one. no change. then swapped the tx, rx and wiring. No change. Deciding it must be belt static (the wx had turned drier), I tried some fabric softener on the belt/boom; didn't help. I ordered the open tail case so I could ground the idler pulley to the metal tail boom. After installing it and grounding the idler pulley to the boom it still glitched, maybe not quite as bad but still too bad to fly it.

Drop kicking it seemed like an option about then. I hooked a spare receiver channel to an oscilloscope and could see the whole electrical system glitching slightly even at lower rpms but the servos didn't start twitching untill it was perhaps 3/4 up to speed.

It was 'finally' cured after grounding the front belt pulley to the boom. Actually that pulley is plastic but there's a metal shaft/pin that holds the pulley in place; I grounded that metal shaft to the boom and all the glitches stopped instantly.

Now the wx has gotten more humid so it might mask the problem. I suppose a bearing could be bad as well. I'll change them out at the next 'opportunity.'

FWIW

good luck.

[cbergen]

I'm Somewhat at a loss here, If you set your throttle failsafe to 0, and everything else to HOLD, then why did it all of a sudden the heli shoots up 10 or 15 more feet on its own and then PLUMMETS full neg 7-8 degree pitch right into the ground

:dontknow ??? :dontknow

[MarkWebber]

lakespinner

Have you got a shot of that fix? Been getting glitching on my raptor lately. I believe I've found the trouble but still would like to see what you did with your belt.

For AP2000i users to benifit from stabilization, be sure to set your failsafe to center the sticks, i.e. the AP2000i should not see an input from the rx. And set your gain to a decent amount, 50% or so. If the failsafe settings commands to hold the last position, the AP2000i will view that as a commanded signal from the tx and it will override your stabilization.

[Cryofix]

I'm Somewhat at a loss here, If you set your throttle failsafe to 0, and everything else to HOLD, then why did it all of a sudden the heli shoots up 10 or 15 more feet on its own and then PLUMMETS full neg 7-8 degree pitch right into the ground

:dontknow ??? :dontknow

I am assuming it glitched heavy when it it did its climb up which would explain the jump in height of the heli, but my failsafe set at 0 means full down stick, normally I would have -3 or -4 on full down in normal mode but I like the control better with more pitch even though the heli's weight would add an extra few degrees to a theoretical drop.

I have not been schooled in failsafe, I do understand what you mean and that would sound confusing, however isn't 0 on throttle full down? Ill have to check my radio to see if there is a separate pitch setting.

[Cryofix]

Sorry to hear about the glitching. I know how scary some glitching was on my Logo 10 the past few weeks. My glitching was mostly in pitch but not always. It may be unrelated to your situation but who knows.

I had maybe 30 or 40 flights on the logo 10 and never had a glitch. I decided to stretch the boom and run 550 blades on it. After the stretch it would start glitching as soon as it got spooled up to takeoff speed. I took it to the field 4 times and never got it off the grass, too skeerd to risk it.

I first tried to blame the ap2000i and replaced it with a new spare one. no change. then swapped the tx, rx and wiring. No change. Deciding it must be belt static (the wx had turned drier), I tried some fabric softener on the belt/boom; didn't help. I ordered the open tail case so I could ground the idler pulley to the metal tail boom. After installing it and grounding the idler pulley to the boom it still glitched, maybe not quite as bad but still too bad to fly it.

Drop kicking it seemed like an option about then. I hooked a spare receiver channel to an oscilloscope and could see the whole electrical system glitching slightly even at lower rpms but the servos didn't start twitching untill it was perhaps 3/4 up to speed.

It was 'finally' cured after grounding the front belt pulley to the boom. Actually that pulley is plastic but there's a metal shaft/pin that holds the pulley in place; I grounded that metal shaft to the boom and all the glitches stopped instantly.

Now the wx has gotten more humid so it might mask the problem. I suppose a bearing could be bad as well. I'll change them out at the next 'opportunity.'

FWIW

good luck.

I possibly think you nailed it! I have been bench testing all afternoon and I can not get a single glitch to show with all the electrics removed, I have a mount made for the motor so I can spin it up to semi replicate flight, even though there is no load on the motor.

I can bring it shortly to mid stick but dont dare to go higher on the no load motor, I have replicated all flight maneuvers and then some and the glitch counter shows 00 still.

When I would hover about 55-60% I had no problems but either coming down to land, dropping altitude, or increasing altitude, I saw the glitching.

There was a very uneasy point I noticed about 62% stick where it would either drop or pop, on descent it would drop, and during throttle up it would pop up into the air but these lasted just a split second.

My RX is on top of that tail pulley and the AP was right on the side of it.

Gonna go see if I can ground this. THANKS!!

[MarkWebber]

For electrics, it is commonly recommended to go to motor off. I wouldn't suggest going to full negative pitch. Maybe a few degrees negative to help keep the headspeed up should you regain control. Definately not full negative, as the results aren't pretty. :arggg:

[Tonystott]

When I recently had an unfortunate potential fly-away due to strong winds with the Trex450 AP ship, throttle hold was (reluctantly) chosen at about 50 feet altitude, and AP gain increased. I have throttle hold set to give 4 degrees negative pitch (and zero throttle), and the sticks were centred. The heli came down hard with rotor level (thanks Spartan!), only trashing the camera and one part of the Askman mount plus the tilt servo.

I was amazed that nothing on the heli itself was damaged at all.

[askman]

just pm'd you. wow, sorry about the crash. you have the .30 size with 1/8" thick material. still very strong. the mount has quite a bit of spring, so on most hard landing, it will bend, rather than break. with full power from 50', wow.

I set my failsafe to low pitch (about 2 degrees) and 20% throttle. I can see zero throttle, if I was in dangerous environment.

I would go ahead and check to make sure that pan servo is ok on the mount. if it was not damaged, I am really happy that the slip clutch design worked well. but check it, as it is cheap to replace.

Tony, I shipped your part yesterday. sorry for the delay. just swamped due to my trip. no new orders except for service call at the moment, so I am getting caught up. :)

[Tonystott]

No worries Andrey! Got the Trex AP ship back in business with an Optio A10, and the AP mast is working fine. Looking forward to hanging the A640 on it!

[j_kookboy]

I had some odd tail glitching on my stock Logo 10 running a DX7.

I have done many many test since the first DX sys came out and never came across this.

The tail would just twitch inconsistently.

I found the issue.

I grounded both tail pulley's to the boom and then from the boom to the frame to the negative ground wire from the esc/motor.

That took care of the 'static'.

All of my heli's I've been doing that from day 1 and never had a glitch in the last 3 or so years that I can remember both on JR 72mhz and DX systems.

May not be your solution, but it's a mandatory aspect I never overlook when putting together a new heli anymore.

Sorry to hear of your loss.
I recently got one of Andrey's pan mounts. The thing looks like it's nearly indestructible :mrgreen:

[aramsdell]

I don't have my AP 2000 on yet but I've had my share of glitches in the past. Most were on BCP's then they followed to my TREX's . My AP 2000 is going on my #2 Swift. #1 swift had a couple of glitches early on but I've found, like many others, to use silicone. I use Liquid-Wrench brand silicone spray. I spray it into a convenient container, currently a cap from a spray paint can, and apply it to the tail belt with a small artist's brush. Rotate the head to turn the belt and keep applying until the whole belt has been lightly covered. I also lubricate all my shafts/ bearings frequently with a mix of lubes. Silicone spray mixed with a thicker lube that will still allow it to creep into the bearings is good, again apply with small paintbrush. I don't lube the ball links. I have also at times wiped the tail boom and blades with the silicone on a rag. This is nice especially if the tail blades have any dirt showing they come out clean.

I haven't got the AP 2000 on so I can't count unseen glitches but I have none in recent memory that I have seen.

I have a Deans mini whip antenna and a Berg 7 receiver. No glitches even at extreme(which way is it pointed) range. Probably 8-9oo feet away.

[Cryofix]

Thanks for all the positive input, when I get the time now I will put this all back together, it looks like I will solder a ground wire onto the locking grub screw on the front tail pulley and then hook it to the boom with a set screw.

Thanks,
Ed

[askman]

hey ed, I got your parts ready to go, as I realize you have an early gear drive logo10 version. (only one of two in existence, so it will probably become a collector piece :) ) anyway, if you need more than the leg/skid tube, let me know and I will include it. also, let me know if I am wrong about the mount version, as I can swap the leg assembly easily. :)

send me your address, as it is too hard for me to look it up. :)

[lakespinner2]

Mark, I managed to get a couple shots of my attempts to ground the boom/belt/pulleys this weekend. I'll post them but don't laugh too hard. :)

As I mentioned above, grounding the rear pulley had very little effect. Grounding the front pulley stopped all the glitching. I also ran the little wire back to the mounting bolts holding the fma sensor onto the boom just in case there was some funny capacitance thing going on. That probably made little or no difference but since it was very close I went ahead and grounded it too. A combination of CA, shoe goo and tape hold the little wire in place. It's just crammed down along side the pin in the front pulley about an eighth of an inch or so.

randy

[MarkWebber]

Thanks, Randy.

Due to design, I guess I won't be able to do the same with the front pullys on my R50.

Nice(proper) install on the IR sensor cable. Like the Zeal, too :D