new Lipo tech available. Sounds incredible!

[xStatiCa]

Anyone try these batteries? If this info turns out to be true I might convert to these. 90% battery capacity after 100 discharges. I wonder if that is the norm with tp prolites.

25C, Low Operating Temperature, No Need for Low-Voltage Cut-Off Device, Never Deform, Lower Price. These are the AirThunder Differences!!!

* High energy density
* High voltage - 7.4V, 11.1V, 14.8V, 22.2V, 37V available
* High capacity - 2200 to 5000 mAh
* High discharge rate - 25C
* High burst discharge amperage - 5 to 10 seconds at 40C
* No memory effect
* Low internal impedance
* Low-voltage safe; no cut-off voltage limit; no more need to time your flight
* Withstand over-discharging
* No deformation after over-discharge
* Low operating temperature - < 50 to 60°C
* Light Weight - 160 to 280g
* Long life – retains 90% capacity after 100 cycles
* Superior quality - manufactured in an ISO 9001 :2000 and UL certified facility
* All our batteries come with wire gauge(Voltage port) and balance connector ready.
* Costs 18 to 25% less than comparable products.

http://www.airthunder.com/catalog01/information.php?info_id=6&osCsid=3deefb75d239fd20ccdebf34ec1d5630

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

That looks very cool. I hope it's true!! We will see.

[xStatiCa]

Crap. dup post... someone else already mentioned these:

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?p=307118

[EricW]

OK :),

Still makes me curious if someone on this board has used them without posting a report about them.

Eric

[DebianDog]

Long life cycle – 80 to 100 times?

Flightpower does like 200 before you start to see a decrease

What is their return policy if you puff a pack or crash?
Thunderpower has replaced my packs before and Flightpower has just "set the standard". You can call, explain what happened, and most likely get a new pack. if you crash they will let you get a new pack at 50% off. I doubt Airpower will do that.

Those two factors alone do not warrant the 18%-25% less to me.

[xStatiCa]

Not having to worry about the 80% discharge rule is the feature that would make me want to use them. I usually discharge to about 60 to 70% just to be safe. My flight times would increase if I could go to 90% discharge without worrying about killing the batteries..

[DebianDog]

Just like a speed limit. 90% is actually the number but... companies tell people 80% because people will run over any number given. I have accidentally run my packs down to 90% twice and they still work fine. I try to keep it "around" 80%

Just like the C rating. With an Evo30 you can charge at 3C and the battery has been tested and will not puff if charged at 3 C but they still recommend you charge at 1C. Just FYI.

[xStatiCa]

I just noticed that the batteries come down cooler when I stop at 60 - 70% vs 80%. Everything right now is just a big question mark with these batteries since nobody has any feedback on them. Only time will tell when someone actually tests them. If nobody else reports on them I might end up getting one to try out but I already have 9 batteries so I don't suspect I will be buying one any time soon regardless.

The batteries I am interested in more than these are the li-mn batteries from apogee but they don't have the 2100 - 2200 mah versions out yet. The li-mn batteries don't have the burning issues that lipos have but they are slightly less on power vs weight ratio. The safety of them though would be worth it in my opinion.

[DebianDog]

You batteries should bot be getting that hot "now a days" with 25C and 30C out. Maybe a bit warm but not HOT.

[xStatiCa]

I have mainly tp pro-lites and 2 Align 22Cs. The batteries do come down pretty warm even though the max amps I am pulling is 28 and hover is 13-14 amps (430XL with 12 tooth). The 22C comes down just as warm as the pro lites it seems. They do not come down hot though. I equate cooler battery with longer lasting battery even when it is 115 vs 108 (Just guesses as I do not have a temp gun).

[DebianDog]

Order a new Flightpower Evo25 and I will guarantee it will run harder and cooler than any battery you currently own.

What I learned this weekend when I was talking to the plant manager of Flightpower is... if it says 25C on the outside label, all the cells on the inside are AT LEAST 25C. Each one cell tested and matched with the other cells that perform (charges and discharges) in the same manor. Cells not up to standards are sent back or tossed. There are no holes in the casing because do not heat up as much and should not ever be "hot". There is also no solder used in the process of connecting the cells (they are sonicly welded) except where the leads connect to the pack so there is very little metal to retain any heat. This is why the Flightpower packs last longer, deliver more power, and cost more.

[xStatiCa]

Sounds good but I am not in the market for more of the same lipo tech. I have plenty of lipo batteries to last me awhile and am happy with the tp prolites which perform great for me anyway. I have 2 with some big dents in them after a few crashes but they perform just like new.

What I am looking for is what is next in lithium tech. I am tired of the lipo 80% (or 90 as you say) rule and the combustion safety issues with lipos. I want something different around the same weight as lipos. That is why the lipos from airpower and the li-mn from apogee interest me. Now weather they hold up to their claims is up for discussion but until someone tests them and proves them either way they potentially could prove to be better or worse than the current lipo tech.

The intent for this post was to find out what these batteries are capable of though. Regardless your info is appreciated. I might have to try one of the flightpower batteries if these prove to be mis-represented or just not up to par..

[DebianDog]

Nicads, jet fuel, gasoline, and nitro do not have safety issues? Like I told someone in another forum. The people that have problems with that never seem to be the people that run them the most. To that. If I had dented packs... I doubt I would use them in a helicopter I cared about.

After seeing all the technologies this weekend, in Toledo, I think "near term" will be lower cost 30C, 40C, 50C??? lipolys. I mean if you can charge (safely) at 4C or 5C you are now talking 10-15 minutes for a 100% recharge (if you can drive the amps). A123 and those type batteries are going to have to take another leap forward in performance to be on par with lipoly. On that note: I would not be surprised AT ALL to see some new high speed chargers come out designed for the top of the line batteries. ;)

I also noticed with the new lipoly packs the pack size stayed the same but there is more Mah in all the new packs. For example the old Evo 20 was 4900 the new 25C is 5000. At 30C will it be 5200? Not sure but it will be more... What do you care how much you put back in it as long as you get 7-8 minute flights that start and end with about the same power?

[xStatiCa]

The below movie shows one of the reasons I like the Li-Mn (Lithium Manganese) batteries. I bet this will end up catching on sometime soon.

http://www.pfmdistribution.com/Apogee_Puncture_Test.wmv

I wouldn't want to be around a Li-Po if that happened to one. The guys is holding it in his hand safely while drilling through it with a metal bit.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Ok we can talk about this all day long but someone needs to step up and buy one to test.

[Racer38]

Well considering the 6S and 10S packs are still vaporware its hard to get them.. No price listed and not available at present.

[Air_Alpheus]

I wrote them an email and they got back to me within 15 minutes.

Here is what I wrote:

I'm liking what I see with your products , however 80 to 100 cycles
> is not a long life. I have over 180 cycles on my prolites and they are
> still running strong. What's the story on the lifetime on these
> batteries? Thanks
>

Here is their reply:

Dear Bruce,

Thanks for bringing this up. We will need to modify that passage on our website. If you scroll down the page, you will see a graphic of battery capacity vs discharge cycle. What we meant to say is that the battery still retain 90% of the original capacity even after 100 cycles. This is above the industrial average.

Best Regards,
Barry H.
AirThunder

[Air_Alpheus]

They are sending me a 3s 2200 mah pack for me to test. I will post all of my results as soon as I get them. What all tests would you guys like to see other than the obviouse?

[Racer38]

Ask them when they are going to release 6S and 8S Packs ... I would be willing to test one in 130 degree weather for them in Iraq hahaha

[DebianDog]

They are sending me a 3s 2200 mah pack for me to test. I will post all of my results as soon as I get them. What all tests would you guys like to see other than the obviouse?

You have an on-board meter you can run against another battery?
http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm

[DavidH]

I agree with Debian. Unless you have the eagle tree onboard. Any test you do is not valid. Most people want to see valid facts and not just I say, he says type of reports.

David

[Air_Alpheus]

I got the eagle tree system.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Can't wait to see the data!!!! :D

[Air_Alpheus]

I got another Email from them, this is a small exert:


AirThunder Wrote:

"It would be great if you can videotape the fly. If you don't have specialized equipment, it would probably be hard to test the discharge curve etc. But do feel free to discharge it to 0 volts a couple of time to validate our claim. The best thing about these batteries is that you don't really need to time your flight or use low-voltage cut-off device. Just fly till you feel the power is diminishing, then bring back your helicopter. The battery will do just fine."


I have an Eagle Tree system that I will be utilizing for these tests and I will also be video taping them as well.

[Air_Alpheus]

Ok, I got the battery in the mail today, only took 2 days to get here via priority mail. Packaging was great very well protected for its rough ride through the postal system. I am sorry but I have no pics yet , my camera is out of town with my girlfreind it will be home tomorrow. The battery is a little bigger than a Thunder Power pack and a little heavier, but it does not throw off the balance on my Trex. The balancing port that is on it is the same kind that is found on the ElectriFly packs and the Venom packs, so adapters are plentiful to what ever balancer that you want to use. It will plug directly into the Equinox balancer from Great Planes. I however made an adapter myself, I just bought a 3 cell equinox lead from my LHS cut it and spliced it onto a Thunder Prower lead that I had so it will fit into my 210 balancer. I charged it up @ 1C with my 1010c charger and the balancer attached with no problems. The first flight of this pack will be tomorrow night along with some pics.

Stay Tuned... Thanks