ION-X Tail issue

[MrMel]

I have an issue with my ION which Im totally stumped about.
It has the new open tailbox with delrin/alu gear.

When doing a hard stop from a fast piro it sounds like im stripping the gears, I mean, its a loud crunching sound.

Ive checked and re-checked everything, cant find any issue, ive loosen all set-screws and re-loctite'd them, ive checked for play, rechecked all gearmesh, everything is OK.

It really sounds like the heli is breaking up... it dont feel like the tail letting go, so I dont think something is slipping.

Slow piro stop is OK.

Ideas, anyone, PLEASE! :arggg:

Edit: Just to add info, Using gy611 in 3D mode, tailblades are Rotortech 105

[Peter]

gear mesh at bevel gear is ok ? torque tube ends aren't slipping under extreme load ? have you got the pinned t/tube ?

[MrMel]

Gearmesh is OK.

TT is the pinned and Ive inspected it, looks ok.

If hold the main rotor and try to turn the tailblades (as hard as dare) it wont budge.

I gonna go out and another set's of blades now, see if that makes a difference.

Edit: New blades did nothing, same thing still.

[Peter]

plenty of oil , atf , in the one way bearing ?(auto hub ) ........ bad motor ? it doesn't make the noise in hard collective or cyclic inputs ?..

[MrMel]

Gonna check the oneway.
Could be the motor, I have a spare, so I will try that too.

Thanks for the ideas.

No noise during hard collective/cyclic though.

[Peter]

thats the end of the ideas from me! it's a good one..... :arggg: :arggg:

[Rickster]

What Headspeed are you running and have you tried some 95mm tails.? Is it ripping when you stop from a piro by just bouncing off the stick or does it do it anytime you stop a piro even softly? Also what servo arm length and gain setting on the gyro..My 601 would rip when you dropped off the stick from a fast piro. It did it in FAI mode but I switched it to 3D mode and it softened the stop some.. When it does it does the tail bounce back or rebound? If so you might need to ad some delay, or Go in a hole on the servo arm..

Rick

[MrMel]

Arm is at 17mm I think (limit is around 134 in both direction if dont remember wrong)
Im running it in 3D mode.
It dont bounce, its a firm stop, just the crushing sound.

Changed motor
Changed oneway
Rechecked everything

No Dice.

Added some delay on the gyro, it got better, with 15% stop delay it takes about twice as hard stop for it to sound, and even then the sound is a little less.

So I guess Im ok with that, not perfect, but enough to fly at least.

[Laurens]

Maybe its the gears from your tailservo? Raptors make a crunching sound too if you piro it fast.

[OICU812]

When I had my Ion I had a simlar noise, I ran in the 2100rpm range and went from 105VBlade tr blades to 95s' and the weird sound went away. Hope you figure it out soon. BTW... I didn't know you bought an Ion Fredrik. :wink:

[MrMel]

Im a MA convert now for .90 size, Both ION and E-Stratus. :D

Still running Logo 14 and T600 as .50 size.

[Helicrasher]

Hoi,

The weird sound I had was the 2 component glue on the fixation of the carbon boom support was coming separated. :shock:

When you find the problem, let us know.

Mario

[MrMel]

Its definitely the boomsupports, cant find anything wrong with them though.
(but if I remove them and sound is gone)

Gonna try putting a brace between them on the middle

[bob00]

While you're at it check your crown gear. The easiest way to do this is by feel, sometimes the damage is very difficult to see.

- Place your thumb on the toothed surface of the crown gear while slowly turning the rotor head.

- If you feel any slightly uneven areas the crown gear is toast

If you have any backlash at all it is possible that the bevel gear skipped on the crown gear (hard to believe but happens) - this will make a crunching "lego" like sound. If that happens you'll usually find one or two teeth on the crown gear have been rounded off a bit

- R
Team FlightPower
TeamBob00

[Rickster]

Purhaps without the boom supports it is allowing the boom to flex some thus absorbing some of the inertia from the mechanics which would tend to reduce the load on the tail rotor disk.... Dunno really but i think the sound you are hearing is still the tail blades ripping when the gyro stops it from piro sharply...

Rick

[MrMel]

Nah, its not the tailblades, my E-Stratus makes that sound, totally different.

Gonna flight-test it tomorrow with the brace between the boomsupport and see how that work.

[t-rexn8]

Just a fyi I am running 105 tails on my Ion with no problems. I tried the 95's and they were slow on the piro rate. I have not noticed any noises with hard piro's or stops. Also there is backlash in my tail gears and I have the bridge for the boom supports, although I did not notice the sound berfore the bridge either. Hope you find the problem and I will be anxiously awaiting to find out what it is.
Only thing I would recommend is disassembling the entire tail and drive assembly and inspecting carefully.

How old and how many hours on the Ion?

[MrMel]

Its pretty used/worn, but Ive replaced delrin parts, front gear is new, back is the new stratus open tailbox with metal/delrin gear.

Gearmesh is perfect.

Ive tried turning tailblades hard when holding main rotor, it wont slip.
Ive reassembled everything with new loctite where needed, so its not in the tail/tt/gear setup.

Hopefully im getting some flights on it today or tomorrow, but interesting enough, I got the EXACT same sound from my e-stratus yesterday, upon checking the boomsupport was loose (could turn the horizontal fin around the boom).

However, on my Ion the boomsupports are firm, but maybe not enough thats why I think the bridge between them can fix it.

[MrMel]

Whatever was wrong with the boomsupports, the brace fixed it.

Not a sound (except for blades hitting air)

:smokin:

[t-rexn8]

OH YEAH :smokin:

[MrMel]

Best part, 2050HS, +- 12.5 degrees pitch, and Im getting 7 minutes flight from this bird, I love it.

Could even get more by lowering HS to "nitro" headspeed, but who wants THAT... :lol:

:smokin:

Current setup:

Ion-X
One stage Actro, using Actro 32-3 MAX
10:1 gearing
PowerJazz @ 58% throttle
2 x 6s1p 5000's
gy611&9256
3 x JR DS 8715 <- these rocks.
VBlades 690
VBlades 105


"Sister ship", E-Stratus

Setup:
Actro 32-3 with cgboles motor mount.
PowerJazz @ 83% Throttle
11.1:1 gearing
2 x 6s1p 5000's
VBlades 690
VBlades 105
gy611/9256
3 x JR DS8715

Biggest difference between stratus and Ion... actually, I like the slimline canopy better on the stratus :twisted:

[TomC]

Mel,

How does the total flying weight compare between your Ion-X and E-Stratus? Thanks.

Cheers,

Tom C

[MrMel]

Same, I think there is less then 150 grams difference between them.
I will soon try a new motor in the Stratus though, the LRK motor made for the 12s revolution heli.

[TomC]

Very interesting Mel. I would have thought that an E-conversion-anything would have weighed a lot more than a purpose built Electric but maybe once you are 90-sized, it does not make much difference. Thanks for sharing this info.

Sounds like you really like those Kontronik Power Jazz escs. Any comments about how they compare to the CC HV 110 esc on 12S? Thanks mate.

Cheers,

Tom C

[MrMel]

Ive had bad luck with CC, from my first one.

PowerJazz is heavier, but only controller ive found where you can dial in any % throttle and it works, dont get overheated nor any surging or anything, it just works.

Ive been experimenting much with A123 batteries, and since they drop so much in voltage, ive run the powerjazz at 45% throttle without issues.

Rumor (from kontronik themself) is they are coming out withsomething new soon, I suspect it will be something between the powerjazz and their 55-10-32, that should be VERY interesting.

Then of course we have ThunderPower who are coming out with ESC's with cell-monitoring, thats also something very interesting :)