Open Letter to Thunder Tiger, Align, Hirobo and others...

[madwacked]

I completely agree, I have raced Pro MX, Fly in all sorts of airplanes and drive in a car for a living.........

[mrivers]

You could use a spring clip on the main gears. Something like this http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0142 would be easy to clip on and remove, so it's not a hassle.

Plug the bat in, if it tries to spool, the clip will jam the main gears. Probably not so good for the gears, but given the alternative...

[Helio Addict]

:lolol :lolol :lolol

[mrivers]

Eh, what's so funny?

[Helio Addict]

I guess I don't know what your trying to do with that horse collar. I never ever plug my battery up until I'm ready to fly. If it starts to spool up when I plug it in then I just unplug it. Which has never happened.

I also wear a safty collar everytime I sit on the :badair:

If it makes you happy to do it that way then thats why its called a hobby. Do what you think is best.

I think that most of the time this kind discussion comes from a lack of knowledge or understanding of the systems installed in the aircraft.

[mrivers]

I don't actually do this myself. I know my ESC wont arm if the throttle is not 0. I know to turn the radio on before the heli, I know to be in the right flight mode, to be in throttle hold. I know that the fail safe for the Rx is set to 0 throttle. I also know that my DX7 TX wont start sending a signal until I LEAVE throttle hold mode, which I find unintuitive, but whatever.

That said, if I have the heli powered up and armed on my desk, I will put a screwdriver through the gears in the off chance I bump the radio and turn something on I didn't intend.

I am confident I have everything set up for a safe start on my Trex 450, and I only offered a suggestion to those looking for the extra margin of safety. Otoh, my Blade CP is a flying junk pile, and it glitched last night while I was picking it up to turn it off.

I don't understand what your issue is with other people looking for that margin. I don't see what's so odd about what I suggested since I don't really think it's 'over the top' and the cost is absolutely trivial.

I also use my seat belt when I drive, I guess I'm a rebel. :D

[ghtracey]

I haven't been around enough to read the threads here, so I missed being quoted.

Alan, my post was not a personal attack on you, sorry if you read it that way. I wasn't saying step up and be a man or anything of the sort. You commented on the faceless program who you were trusting when plugging in your ESC. I attempted to point out, unsuccessfully it seems, that you put that same trust into your radio and receiver, even when up close and personal. You called into question the faulty programming of ESC's as a safety issue, I disagreed, and pointed out things far more real than faulty untested code from an unseen faceless programmer. I wasn't saying you were wrong to try and improve safety, I just don't think using the black box of programming as a scare tactic to further your side of the argument is proper.

[mindwipe]

Answer: I write software for a living and I actually do microcontroller programming for fun. This is a subject that I have some expertise in. In a perfect world, the software in the devices mentioned would be Open Source and we would all work on making it work better and safer together. The more "Intellectual Capital" (or Brains and Eyeballs) applied to any problem, the better. This is why Linux is a household word today. I have publically called on Colin Mill to release the original CSM 360 source code under the GPL. I have posted my opinion that Futaba needs to get out of the SW business and release an open source sw driven transmitter.
I don't think releasing the esc software as open source is a good idea. Then people with no or little knowledge of programming, who don't have coding as a profession, can start to mess with the code, resulting in an even bigger risk of danger if the program is wrong...

[Helio Addict]

If your scared of heights....don't jump out of the plane!
If your scared of your heli, then go get another hobby. Maybe somthing safe like base jumping or moto cross or bull riding........... :smokin:

[AlanMcSwain]

I don't think releasing the esc software as open source is a good idea. Then people with no or little knowledge of programming, who don't have coding as a profession, can start to mess with the code, resulting in an even bigger risk of danger if the program is wrong...


Do you think it is a good idea that **Many** people, other than the initial programmer(s) should be able to examine this kind of code so that any potential flaws may be discovered before someone discovers them the hard way? Wouldn't you have more confidence in the safety of a product that was vetted for safety by your peers, rather than some faceless, nameless employees of some "for profit" organization??

Open Sourcing the code does not have to mean that the hardware has to be flashable. And anyone who is competent enough to build their own ESC hardware is likely already experienced in microcontroller programming anyway.

Alan

[daniel reese]

Wanted to commend Lith for the great switch idea.
I use a large rocker switch on the chin of my 450 to make plugging and unplugging simple and provide an instant kill switch function...but thats just me. Ive been looking for a switch that'll handle the 80+amps of my 600. It would eliminate the arcing when I plug the battery in, allow me to plug the battery in without worrying about something kicking on- however slow or fast it may happen.
I love that switch and ordered one as soon as I saw it. Its great, simple, light and cheap.
I like it, ya'll do whatever you want.

[Finless]

Problem I have with any mechanical switch on a high voltage setup that ARCs is over time the contacts will deteriorate and will start breaking down. Resistance will increase and thus so will amperage and heat. With that switch you cannot inspect the contacts. Trust me one day you will be flying along and your heli will just shut down.

At least with arcing deans plugs I KNOW when they are getting bad and KNOW when to replace them.

Safety switch or not, I would not trust any mechanical switch which still allows internal arching on the contacts.

Bob

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Bob does have a point but the switch I use you can easily take it apart for inspection. After many flights it's still going strong and looking great. It better be because it was a little pricey but you get what you pay for.

[mex-450pilot89]

ok well how about having the company that makes the esc have a 15 secound delay from when you plug it in till it arms its self. thats easy enough. im sure CC would have no problem adding that to there esc. or even an external unit that goes from the battery to the esc that once it gets the power waits 15 secounds and then completes the circut. easy enough

[AlanMcSwain]

mex-450pilot89....

Not a bad idea and a step in the right direction. Not absolutely positive like pinion disengagement, but significantly safer than what we have now. Of course, I'd like to see test results under a wide range of abusive conditions to ensure the software is robust. An no damn warning beeping using the motor. Install a proper piezo.

The second idea is great too. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that fets would work for this level of power transfer and any relay that could handle the current would be heavy.

[mex-450pilot89]

yea thats true, the idea of just having the speed control programed to have a delay is a better idea. just throughing stuff out there.

[Chris Blom]

Alan- If you want to add an element of safety install an arming switch from Maxx Products.Product#6970.Website is www.maxxprod.com . When the switch plug is out there is no way an accidental bump of throttle switch will send those blades moving.I hope this helps-Chris Blom

[tapsilog]

hello, i my self have encountered that problem, my heli just full trhrottle and cant stop it,
what im goin to do is ill simply gonna make a helipad a wooden flat form with 2 metal bars that i can clam the heli in starting up, and put some weight on it.. so the heli dont have a chance to lift off..when he acted crazy..or anyting goes wrong the heli is pin down to that board..

but if i feel its a good start, then ill just pull this bars and off my heli go for an hover..

im still trauma! that the heli gives me a full throttle and i cant do anyting about it and just waited to it to stop!

if i do this what ever happens heli stays there and i can unplug the cables to esc, without dancing around the heli catching the cable!

[rdlohr]

Be careful with that one. I think you have more of a chance getting hurt trying to hold a heli dowm than of ever getting hurt with normal handling.

[Zoobie]

Alan, two things. If you want to get technical, cant the cetrifugal system of a nitro engine be adapted for E use? That is assuming it will protect you in the first place. Secondly, I accdentally put my heli straight into idle up after an auto, and it did not move, just stripped the main gear. If a little heli can do that (trex 450) with substantially less inertia than a 600, what are the chances. Why dont you just test it. Just flick one mode to 100% with no pitch on the blades, you will sacrifice one gear, but have your answer! Then with pitch there will be even more resistance?

[Snarf]

Just finished building my Trex 450 and spooled it up for the first time yesterday, strapped down (very securely) to a bench in the middle of my garage. SCARY :eek:. I for one would not want to share body parts with the rotor head.

I used a small receiver pack to do all the mechanical and servo setups. Much safer but, ultimately you have to connect the ESC in oder to program it (AND start it with the throttle at full). Needless to say I had the motor mounted so that the pinion was fully disengaged from the main gear. The Finless videos were a huge help and include all those little safety tips. Eventually, however, you have to engage the pinion and make the drive train live. I will admit to an elevated pulse and breathing rate the first time I connected the battery with the motor in its correct position.

My wife asked why so many of these models have aggressive sounding names (T-Rex, Predator, Raptor etc.) instead of "Gerbil" or "Fluffy-Bunny". I guess she will get her answer when she sees the Trex spooled up :lol:

Nothing is absolutely safe in this world. The only certainties are death and taxes. It does pay to be aware of hazards though, only then can you make informed decisions. The ignorance alternative is not attractive. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and, by doing so, helped me climb the hill of knowledge about this new hobby of mine.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Switches are nice but thier is one thing we can all do to keep things much safer.... USE YOUR BRAIN!!! It's there for a reason.

[Randallhurd]

I'm pretty new to helis..
I only have the TREX600 and the 450.. When I plug the batteries up on the motor of the 600 or the 450 I always flip the Heli on the side. blades on the ground..
I guess that's pretty safe.

[Skiddz]

Not sure if anyone knows this, but if you disconnect one wire to the motor, you can still program the ESC and the motor won't spin up on you. ESC still beeps like normal so no need to muck up your gear mesh etc...

As for normal ops, make sure you've got throttle hold set up properly and enable it before plugging in the main pack..

[AlanMcSwain]

Has there been any vendor development in this space since I dropped of the face of the earth?