e620 Raptor shopping list

[DMBPRODUCTS]

I was trying to piece together a shopping list for an e620 purchase but realized my old nitro days was much simpler than electrics.

Got to the AmainHobbies web site and gave up, too bad they don't have a recommended list.

Have the summer issue of RC Helicopter which list what was used for there review, but those items are not on amainhobbies, not all at least and the batteries are a complete mystery.

I am seeking advice on;
Motor
Batteries + Charger
ESC
Gyro
My Radio will be Futaba Faast 2.4

My skill: I can keep it level and possibly do a figure 8 without crashing.
My intrest: is just flights no 3D at least not yet.

Spending limit around 1500

[Ticidytoc]

Ace has a motor and esc that I think will suit you just fine. TTR2379 and [BLC-75]. You can use a Castle creations ESC like the HV85 or HV 110 and I you decide to change your configuration to a higher cell count you can continue to use the CC HV85/110.

If you want to keep the cost down go with a 6s setup and a set of Flightpower EVO 20 4900's or you can get the EVO 25 5000's both will work well for you.

Gyro: I would either use a Futaba 401 or 611 if you can afford it. the 401 will get you into 3d or aerobatics, fast backwards flight it will not hold as well as a 611. Others are using Logitech gyros, imo the Futaba is easier to set up.

Charger: the Astroflight and Flightpower V-balancer is a great way to go and most likely the most cost effective.

[DMBPRODUCTS]

I read some post about step down voltage regulators.
I have a little trouble understanding lo-p0 batteries, I see some are 22 volts other 11 etc.
Would some voltage regulator be needed or am I just confused?

I read the HV85 is pretty nice, and as you mention allows for a larger cell for other configurations.

Used a lot of futaba stuff so, I guess i will stick with that line.

Don't have a clue on motor size, so I will check out your suggestion and do some reading.

[Ticidytoc]

There are many options as far as power goes for your RX. you can use a Medusa 5V/6V BEC and run a diode for the tail servo. You can use a 4.8 flight pack, or you can use a flight pack and voltage regulator. Really all depends on what makes you comfortable.

Personally I use a BEC off the main pack and a diode for the tail servo. The diodes that I referring to are available from Duralite Batteries. They have some regulator options as well.

As far as lipo batteries go you will not want to use anything lower than 22.2V for this size heli. There are many power options so I suggest you read and as questions like your doing.

There are many motor choices, it will depend on what you want out of it power wise. If your learning and dont want to spend a lot of money right now, a 6S setup will work for you. If you want extreme power and performance then look into either the 8s or 10s options. you can have a very nice 10s combination and use itto learn with, but packs will be more costly than a 6s setup.

[henrik04]

There are many options as far as power goes for your RX. you can use a Medusa 5V/6V BEC and run a diode for the tail servo. You can use a 4.8 flight pack, or you can use a flight pack and voltage regulator. Really all depends on what makes you comfortable.

Personally I use a BEC off the main pack and a diode for the tail servo. The diodes that I referring to are available from Duralite Batteries. They have some regulator options as well.



A regulator is a far better solution for a receiver / gyro. A diode doesn't supress any switching noise coming either from ESC or switching BEC.

Low noise LDO (read Low Dropout Regulator) provides voltage regulation and noise isolation. :wink:

[DMBPRODUCTS]

Thanks for the insight.
I just drop a bucket load of money to get started, everything from Realflight G3.5 to Shrinkwrap.

My weak link right now is the "electrics" since my previous experience was with nitro - 10 years ago. I've been in RC since, cars which use nicads and easy to understand.

I have no understanding of li-pos, charging, brushless motors, and what would be best for a HV85 ESC with a 6s EVO 4900 LIPO pack and a futaba 6EX system.

All I know is the receiver runs on 6v and the lipos 22 v? Maybe a seperate nicad pack, but other may use a regulator ?

[henrik04]

Thanks for the insight.
I just drop a bucket load of money to get started, everything from Realflight G3.5 to Shrinkwrap.

My weak link right now is the "electrics" since my previous experience was with nitro - 10 years ago. I've been in RC since, cars which use nicads and easy to understand.

I have no understanding of li-pos, charging, brushless motors, and what would be best for a HV85 ESC with a 6s EVO 4900 LIPO pack and a futaba 6EX system.

I know is the receiver runs on 6v and the lipos 22 v? Maybe a seperate nicad pack, but other may use a regulator ?

Ok, trying to simplify (which is difficult for an eeng :) ):

Road 1:
22Volts to your motor through your HV85 ESC (Good choice by the way :mrgreen: ) Signal from your receiver to the ESC is isolated through opto coupler (LED and photo transistor in same chip). The idea is that the high current switching noise is supposed not to go back to your sensitive radio receiver.

As you didn't mention which receiver you got with your 6EX I can't say for sure if it's 4.8 or 6 Volts. Futaba R127DF and R136F are both.
If you do use a separate battery for the receiver and servos, that's very good as you won't bring noise from the high switching path due to the opto isolation of the HV85.

Keep in mind is that this separate battery will have to provide enough current to your servos and your gyro.. The biggest advantage is safety :mrgreen: The little disadvantage is a bit of weight on top. But hey that's really not a big issue with a large bird.

Road 2:
From your 22 Volts line you may use a switching BEC to power your receiver, gyro and servo. Advantages are that you have only the main battery to charge and a lighter solution weight wise.

Disadvantage is of course you create a direct path for noise to circulate between your high current / noise source and the receiver.
Only some switching BEC have full isolation between input and output.
Cost and weight increase and other manufacturer taking short cuts force the 'good guys' to do the same.

Yes ( I can hear that some says the ferrite ring stops the noise) :dontknow
I would say that it removes some noise components. However in some instances it is not "that" efficient.

Now to complicate matter even further, if say your gyro or tail servo is 4.8 volts you need to lower the 6 Volts line to 4.8 Volts. And there an LDO is perfect to do the Job. (For the specialists: I'm not talking about a 30cents 7805)

That is the very general ideas. If you have specific questions, please e-mail or PM me.

Hope this help :mrgreen:

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

On my e-620 I use Futaba 9252 Servos and really like them
Futaba 9254 Servo on the tail
GY401 Gyro
UBEC to drop the voltage from the Lipo to the RX
DX7 TX with AR7000 RX
Thunder Power 1010C charger & 210 balancer is the hot ticket for charging!


Be sure the battery will fit the tray some Lipos are to thick and will not go.
These will fit and work well... on sale too!!!

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/batteries_sale.html
#EVO5000-6s2p: FlightPower EVO20 5000mAh 6s2p 22.2V. 20C continuous discharge(110A) 30C Sustained(150A), 50C Bursts(250A). Ideal for larger size model Dimensions - 42mm x 42mm x 258mm Flight Weight - 789gr

I will be using two of these on mine to make a 10s Lipo.

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/batteries-evo20_5000-7400.html
#EVO5000-5s1p: FlightPower EVO25 5000mAh 5s1p 18.5V. 25C continuous discharge(125A), 50C Bursts(250A). Ideal for larger size models
Dimensions - 45mm x 47mm x 166mm
Flight Weight - 644gr

The setup I will be using is heavy but gives 12-15 minutes of (easy flying) flight time. I did use the 6s Lipo packs but didn't like the 6-7 minute flights. so I went to the 10s setup.

[henrik04]

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/batteries_sale.html

I will be using two of these on mine to make a 10s Lipo.

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/batteries-evo20_5000-7400.html
#EVO5000-5s1p: FlightPower EVO25 5000mAh 5s1p 18.5V. 25C continuous discharge(125A), 50C Bursts(250A). Ideal for larger size models
Dimensions - 45mm x 47mm x 166mm
Flight Weight - 644gr

The setup I will be using is heavy but gives 12-15 minutes of (easy flying) flight time. I did use the 6s Lipo packs but didn't like the 6-7 minute flights. so I went to the 10s setup.

Nice! :mrgreen: I'm jaleous but could you say which motor do you selected for the E620 :?:
As I intend to do AP 12 15 minutes with no load would probably give me 7 or 8 minutes with the camera.. but maybe 10S2P would be the ticket..?

Thank you LITHIUMSTATIC :D

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/batteries_sale.html

I will be using two of these on mine to make a 10s Lipo.

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/batteries-evo20_5000-7400.html
#EVO5000-5s1p: FlightPower EVO25 5000mAh 5s1p 18.5V. 25C continuous discharge(125A), 50C Bursts(250A). Ideal for larger size models
Dimensions - 45mm x 47mm x 166mm
Flight Weight - 644gr

The setup I will be using is heavy but gives 12-15 minutes of (easy flying) flight time. I did use the 6s Lipo packs but didn't like the 6-7 minute flights. so I went to the 10s setup.

Nice! :mrgreen: I'm jaleous but could you say which motor do you selected for the E620 :?:
As I intend to do AP 12 15 minutes with no load would probably give me 7 or 8 minutes with the camera.. but maybe 10S2P would be the ticket..?

Thank you LITHIUMSTATIC :D

I use aZ power Z50A-800 motor from www.tppacks.com
Yes! I feel you will be much happier running a 10s setup. It's a little more money but after I tried to pinch a few pennies and use a 6s 5000mah pack i was very disappointed. Get two Flightpower 5s Evo 25 5000mah packs and you will be all good. :D

[DMBPRODUCTS]

I went 6s due to my lack of understanding on the electric side. Had I been more educated I would have went with a 10s and different motor set up.
TT recommended the Tiger Brushless Motor, OBL 43/11-30H and that is what I got.
If I choose something different, I had to understand pinions and gearing..

I'm picking up knowledge here on the site and with luck... The mail man runs Mon-Sat :noteworthy

Thanks for the links I have added them to my favorites. The motors on the tpacks.com are awesomem but out of stock.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

I'm picking up knowledge here on the site

Learning about all this stuff is part of the hobby. :thumbup:

[Finless]

Just flew my 620 yestrerday! I gotta say I am glad I went 10S. Lots of power and everything comes down cool.
Getting the Castle HV85 set up properly in gov mode was the ticket too!

Bob

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

You got that right Bob... Gov mod is nice. Makes sense once you understand how to set it up. I like the Castle link a lot too!! That thing is golden :noteworthy!!! You just can't do much with stick programing.

[kgfly]

Radio
My Radio will be Futaba Faast 2.4
If you mean the 6EX unit that's a very low end radio for a high end heli! It doesn't have sub-trim, separate switches for elev/ail D/R and only 6 model memories. None of those may matter to you but it wouldn't be my choice. If you are planning to put one of the new FASST Tx-modules in your existing 7/9/12/14ch Futaba radio then that makes more sense. At the moment, nothing beats the Spektrum DX7 as a decent choice for a new 6/7ch radio and if you get a Tx+Rx only combo costs about the same as the 6EX.

Batteries
If you only want sport flying and not 3D high performance than you might want to read up about A123 cells. You can fly 10S 2300mAh packs for half the price of lipos with much greater crash survivability and none of the fire risks. For high power you can run 13-15S packs. Since you have chosen a CC85HV this option is certainly open to you.

A123/M1 (LiFe) from the 36V DeWalt packs are 70g/cell at 2300mAh. These are heavier than equivalent capacity LiPo but very robust and essentially zero fire risk. They are also lower voltage (3.3V nominal, 3.6V fully charged vs 3.7/4.2 for LiPo) but they tolerate 100% discharge and can be charged at up to 10A (4.3C) which makes up for the lower capacity by getting you back in the air much faster. Testing has shown that for power-system design purposes you should treat them as 16C/33C (37A/76A) if you want to get ~500cycles. Unlike the emoli, which strangle around 40A, the A123 cells are capable of very high output, certainly 70A and up to 100A briefly. Basically heat is the enemy of cell life so running them at these very high discharge rates will shorten their life, but it's nice to know they can do it if needed. Under load the cell voltage drops quite a bit, running about 3.1V at 10A and 2.6V at >40A.

The lower cell voltage, particularly under load means you need more series cells than a lipo for the same rough pack voltage. The bigger voltage drop under load (at least compared to premium lipos) means maintaining uniform headspeed can be a bit harder and an ESC with a top class governer (eg Jazz or CC) can be useful.

The market rate for a DeWalt 36V tool pack with 10 A123 cells is about USD$100 plus shipping on eBay. Probably works out to around $13/cell. That makes them very cheap when compared to lipos on a total energy basis. For example a 6S 5000 lipo costs about $300. A 10S 2300 A123 delivers about 3/4 the energy for approx $130 and much the same weight. Mechanical fit may be an issue and should certainly be checked before buying any battery. At these prices you can have two or three A123 packs to give you more total flight duration with faster charge times and much lower risk.

Overall I really like the A123 cells for their robustness, inherent safety, deep discharge tolerance and fast recharge ability. They are best suited to larger helis (Swift, TRex600, eRaptor, Logo10 etc) where their size, weight and voltage characteristics can be balanced out by using HV setups (10S to 15S). LiPos are still ahead in peak power and flight duration but at a significant cost premium.

The A123/M1 datasheet is here: http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf

Chargers
A high quality charger is vital to safety as well as ensuring the best performance and maximum lifetime from your batteries so this is not an area to pinch pennies. There are some excellent choices around.

Notes
1) Most chargers require an external DC power supply so budget <$100 for something like a 13.8V/12A/165W or >$100 for say a 13.8V/20A/280W one.

eStation BC8 (~$270)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiIon/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 8S LiXx
- Integrated 2S-8S balancer
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 150W/7A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 7000mAh, 8S < 5200mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 3C, 8S <= 2.4C

Excellent integrated balance charger with 2S to 8S capability and plenty of power to do large 5S lipo packs or fast charge up to 8S A123 packs. I really like the convenience of the integrated balancer, fewer boxes, cables, controls to mess with. Plenty of excellent user feedback to be found for this charger.

Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 6S balancer (~$240)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 12S LiPo/LiFe
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 6S, 2 for 7S-12S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 180W/10A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 10000mAh, 6S <= 8300mAh, 8S <= 6250mAh, 10S <= 5000mAh, 12S <= 4100mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S <= 4.3C, 6S <= 4.0C, 8S <= 3.0C

A high-power charger that goes right up to 12S for a bargain price. Excellent features (similar to the eStation range) including LiFe support (must be the latest firmware, the -A model) although strangely no LiIon support, which is probably not an issue unless you want the option to use emoli packs. While not as convenient as the BC8 (since you need up to two external balancers), this is great value for money.

eStation 902 + 2x PB6 6S balancers ($270 + $110 = $380)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiIon/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 12S LiXx
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 6S, 2 for 7S-12S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 200W/9.9A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 9900mAh, 6S <= 9200mAh, 8S <= 6900mAh, 10S <= 5500mAh, 12S <= 4600mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 4.3C, 8S <= 3.3C, 10S <= 2.6C, 12S <= 2.2C

A high-power charger that goes right up to 12S. Excellent features (mostly the same as BC8). While not as convenient as the BC8 (since you need up to two external balancers), this is a real contender if you want the flexibility to go up to 12s for either LiPo or LiFe (A123). It has a second output which can be used to charge your Tx pack in parallel to your flight pack.

ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer (~$300)
- Requires DC power
- LiXx charger: LiIon/LiPo/LiFe (upgrade to add NiCd/NiMh is due out
- 2S to 10S LiXx
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 10S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 220W/10A output
- 1C lipo charge: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 10000mAh, 8S <= 7600mAh, 10S <= 6000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 4.3C, 8S <= 3.6C, 10S <= 2.9C

A high-power charger that goes up to 10S. Currently LiXx only (latest firmware added LiFe to the LiIon/LiPo it had before) but there are a firmware upgrade that will add NiCd/NiMH/Pb will be out soon. Unique in this group in allowing end-user firmware upgrades with the purchase of the optional interface cable. This charger is hugely popular in the US with those flying 500 class and bigger helis. The BC8, e902 and 1210i-A are all newer (and BC8 and 1210 are cheaper) and are eating into the TP1010's market share. Personally I would choose the 1210i over the TP1010 as it is more flexible (12S vs 10S, multi-chemistry) and is somewhat cheaper and factory calibrated for all chemistries. The TP1010 gets top marks for customer support in the US which is also something worth considering.

[DMBPRODUCTS]

kgfly - Regarding the 6EX Faast Futaba system. I realized my shortfall with this purchase, but... On the up side - Given the fact it is spreadspectrum I am confident I will be the one crashing and not interference from another radio.. ha ha..

RADIO UPDATE: I was able to exchange the FUTABA system for a Spektrum DX7..

I see announced two New radios: 1 9c 2.4 from JR and another 12 channel Futaba system.. I will do some research on these two.

Thanks for the info and breakout on batteries and chargers with suggestions.
After reading the li-po warnings I will be much more careful. :bomb:

LITHIUMSTATIC - mentioned the Castle Link for the HSV85 Thanks for the tip. I going to order one.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

RADIO UPDATE: I was able to exchange the FUTABA system for a Spektrum DX7..

Your going to love the DX7!!! I have one and I'm very happy with it. I may consider an upgrade in 3-5 years..... maybe.


LITHIUMSTATIC - mentioned the Castle Link for the HSV85 Thanks for the tip. I going to order one.

Watch this video if you haven't. Clint Akins - Castle Creations HV-85 Setup for GOV Mode - 12-09-2006 110M

Read this thread too. http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=25517

This will be a big help in setting up your ESC.

Jeremy :thumbup:

[DMBPRODUCTS]

Thanks for the suggestion. I was in doubt about the 6EX Fasst when I first bought it, It is a good radio but the DX7 is better, after charging the battery on the DX7 for a few hours and reading the manual... I LOVE this radio.. the feel, look and performance. It feels right in my hands with great ergonomics and placement. I noticed the difference right away -

I Thank you for the awesome insight into the hobby of RC eflight and suggestions. It Rocks.

This is why the hobby is so rewarding.

My TT charger was back ordered so I cancelled, and I am now looking at the Hyperion solution for my charging needs. Thanks for the insight: it too looks to be a good solution, I am looking to get into 10S or two 5s packs.

Hopefully before I and other waste tons of money I read post such as yours. Never stop helping those who need it !

Thanks for the help !
I'm waiting on the mail man to bring me my bird.

Next Topic - Connectors ?
Deans, e-flight, others ?
regards

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Next Topic - Connectors ?
Deans, e-flight, others ?
regards

Anytime!

As for conectors... most really like deans. I think the Deans can take abuse but they are a pain to plug/unplug :motz!

I use EC3 just because they are easier to use. They work great for me, however I don't fly my heli very hard. The guys that fly "Heavy 3D" say they melt. Never had it happen to me just sport flying.

[DMBPRODUCTS]

LITHIUMSTATIC - thanks for the tip on the usb interface for the HSV85. Nice additon to have, thanks. I just ordered mine.

This kind of interface was SCI-FI a few years ago, glad to see companies take the lead and to poster who point out helpful tid bits that may be overlooked.

regards

[kgfly]

Glad you found the info useful :wink:

I am confident you will be very happy with the DX7. You must make sure your radio power-supply is up to the job. You options are using the NiCd flight pack that came with the DX7 (get a voltage monitor for it so you can check before each flight that it is still adequately charged), a swtiched-mode BEC that runs off the main flight pack or a smaller lipo+BEC.

If you choose the 1210i or e902 remember you need two of their matched balancers plus the "network" cable that interconnects the balancers and the data cable that connects them to the charger. This gives you access to the full potential of the 12s charger. You might also consider waiting to order your charger until after you have chosen your batteries so that you can order the appropriate balance-plug adapter for the packs. The other option is to order all the adapters so that you are free to choose any brand packs now and in the future.

Happy shopping :D

[DMBPRODUCTS]

The DX7 is better and I do see the difference right away.

I recently seen an article in "quite Flyer" Mag using Anderson Powerpole connectorers. I remember using these in my RC car days and was happy with the ability to configure and ease of disconnect/connect and performance.

Your thoughts for heli use ?

Thanks for the great help...

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

The DXY is better and I do see the difference

I recently seen an article in "quite Flyer" Mag using Anderson Powerpole connectorers. I remember using these in my RC car days and was happy with the ability to configure and ease of disconnect/connect and performance.

Your thoughts for heli use ?

Thanks for the great help...

Well if Deans are rated at 50 amps and EC3 at 60 and if they meet those requirements then I would say they are prob ok to use. Don't really know much about them and don't want to suggest something that would cause a crash.

Input anyone???

Jeremy