Axe CP separations and setup journal

[markind]

Hi Ray and all!

My hobby time has been sucked up by new love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1DRHWVq1gQ

This has even left my TREX on the wall, just needing final head tuning, screws check, and batteries.

My Axe is a royal Hangar Queen and collecting dust! Not good!

Glad to hear about your TREX progress! Very encouraging!

I still want more Axe time before finishing up my 'Rex, but it will be a few weeks. Weather here in South San Jose, CA is still pretty mild, but really nice days are getting more scarce.

I took up my H9 Raptor last Sunday and had an awesome good time, so its all good!

Chat l8r!

[Ray K.]

WOW!!!

That thing is awesome! Fast!!!!

I've toyed with the idea of getting a little EP Foamie of some kind. Nothing fancy, just something to toss around at the airfield next summer. I find that when I'm getting frustrated with the helis on my sim, I like to fly some fixed-wing stuff to calm down. I'm fascinated by gliders, but don't really have a good place to fly them here other than on the sim. If I were on the West side of the state, there are some wonderful sand dunes that come off of Lake Michigan, and it looks like it would probably be absolutely IDEAL soaring conditions. 4 hour drive from here, though.

Too bad that the weather is starting to turn for you, too. I had a good day to fly a few days ago, but I'm pretty sure that's the last chance I had for the year. It was a little breezy, but not too bad. Sunny and 45 degrees... It was actually really fun to fly in air that cold because the blades had very good performance in the denser air. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason I was feeling froggy enough to flip the 'Rex over. I've already resigned myself to putting storage charges on all my LiPos, and I'm going to go through each heli with a fine-tooth comb before putting them away for the winter. I was able to rebuild the Axe after that recent crash, but was only able to do some test hovers to check my tracking- the weather is down for the count. At least both birds will be in perfect flying condition for when spring finally rolls around. The winters always seem sooooo long here in Michigan. Maybe I should move out to Cali...

-Ray

[carloserizzo]

Hi Ray! Does the dx7 have a jr plug in the back side? I looked at the spectrum training cord and it looks like headphones plug, so I was wondering if there is any usb interface specially designed for the dx7. Can you send me any web link of the usb interface? Where did you buy it? I'm triying to save more money to buy the dx7, and would like that interface too.

[Ray K.]

Yeah, the DX7 uses a JR plug.

If you want to order Reflex, just order the version that comes with the JR cable and USB thing. Other simulators will have different ways of going about it, but I'm sure that all sims that are designed to use a normal radio as a controller will have some kind of cable that comes with it. Just be sure that it's a JR plug. I have no reason to think that the DX6 will have a different plug. As far as other radios, I'm not sure what connector they use. You'll just have to look.

-Ray

[carloserizzo]

Ray!

Have you heard about the trex 450 s (aluminium version)? I have read some forums and it seems that the only difference with the 450 sa is the assembly degree: the sa version comes 95 % pre assembled, while the s version comes 80% assembled. Have you read about any other main difference?

I found a 450 s combo that cames with:
●325mm Carbon Rotor Blades
●RCE-BL35X 35A Brushless ESC(Govener Mode) [dont know how this governor mode can affect]
●New 430X Brushless motor (3550KV)
●New Align 2200mAh / 18C Battery

Only $275, free shipping. And in other page I found the dx7 with 3 s285 servos, $300, free shipping too. I will use my axe cp gy240 meanwhile, and buy a good tail servo. With this setup, I save A LOT of money and can buy the dx7.

[Ray K.]

Carlos-

That sounds like a GREAT deal!!! DO IT!!!

Nothing about the way that a 'Rex is put together is anything that you can't handle. The kit that you found has the exact same motor and ESC that came with my SA, and you'll also be getting a LiPo and some carbon blades (mine are wood)... that's an awesome deal! Just bear in mind that you'll need a LiPo charger, and that can cost anywhere from $65 to $300 depending on what you get. I was able to find a charger with a built-in balancer for $90- it can handle up to 4s packs, and has a maximum charge rate of 2A. It's perfect for TRex-sized LiPos, but it's running at it's maximum capacity to do so.

DS285's are likely the best servos for TRex 450's. What kind of Rx comes in that package?

-Ray

[carloserizzo]

Hi Ray!

The dx7 comes with the 3 servos and AR6100 receiver, perfect for this aplication. And I already have the lipo charger. When I bought the lipo for the axe cp I was thinking in future and decided to spend a little more on a good charger, so I bought the triton jr charger with equinox balancer (with 2s and 3s adapter). What I dont know is if the balancer connector that came with equinox balancer (and work for electrifly batteries) is going to work with this lipo, but if not, I'll have to find out how to adapt the battery to the balancer.

I'm triying to find information about this heli, I still doesn't have know the exact differences between the s and sa version. I would like to know this because I can find replacement parts for the se and some sa version, but definitely not the s version. And I'm wondering why is this heli less commom than the sa version. Do you have any information?

[Ray K.]

Ummm.....

I really wish I had a good answer for you about the differences between the S model and the SA. As far as I can tell, there are two basic versions of the TRex 450- the older version is a mechanical mixing machine, and the newer ones (S, SA, SE...) have CCPM. I've been told that the difference between an SA and an SE is that the SE uses carbon frames and has an aluminum head, and the S and SA have aluminum frames and plastic heads. I've also been told that there are no major differences in the head designs between the SA and SE- it's just the material that it's made out of. I've heard from several credible sources that SE head parts will fit directly on an SA with no problem. My guess is that the difference between an S and an SA is that the SA comes mostly pre-built. I'll bet that the S version is exactly the same as the SA, it just requires the user to build the frame, which should be pretty easy. TRexes are very simple helicopters, and I can't imagine that it would be very hard to build one from parts. I'm almost certain that you'll be able to use SE or SA parts for repairs. I'm still a newbie to TRexes too, so don't feel too bad. There's lots of people on this forum that have all the answers you need.

Again, I don't know any of this for sure. I still encourage you to get the S, though. The build should be very straight forward, and I can't imagine that any new TRex is going to be an inferior helicopter. I say go for it! You'll love it!

As far as the charge connector on the LiPo, it's pretty likely that the connector you have will fit. If it doesn't, there are all kinds of charge adapters available for just a few dollars. I wouldn't worry about it.

-Ray

[Major Bladebreaker]

A few more thoughts for those of you who want to go to the Rex...if you want to have some fun with it and enjoy tinkering, build one from "scratch". I have a rex that started as an XLE (plastic head/frame). I only paid $150.00 and it flew OK but it is my assertion that a plastic head leaves much to be desired in terms of performance. So, I bought upgrades piecemeal. Actually, the metal moving parts I bought exclusively from microheli: full metal head and tail. There are several knockoffs available and they all look good but I can only vouch for microheli. The head had to be assembled and I'm glad I did that as it teaches you how the thing works. Indeed, putting the heli together is a great way to learn about fine adjustments, basic functioning etc. and in the end, you get a custom heli. It can also be a good way to spread out the hit to the wallet but it goes without sayng that buying a package deal is typically cheaper. I have been very happy with the parts I chose and have had no problems with them. The frame I have is from Helidirect and is made of many layers of fiberglass (STK superframe). It is extremely sturdy and well-designed. In my experience, the difference in terms of performance between plastic and metal is night and day and metal survives quite well in a crash. Anyway, if you're interested putting a Rex together on your own, here are some places to try:
www.helidirect.com
xmseller.com
cnchelicopter
www.microheli.com
copterx

Mark

[Major Bladebreaker]

Guys,

I'm in the last stages of rebuilding my Axe brushless style and need some advice. I've put together a full metal head with microheli parts, will use a brushed DD tail motor with the GWS 3.25" blades, have a CC 25, and a GY 240. I need some help with motor choice. I'm looking at the MP jet AC 25/25-26 or the AC 25/35-20 (mainly because they're both $35.00 US at Icare-rc.com). the problem is I'm not sure which one to buy. I have TP 1350 Mah Lipos with a 13C discharge rating so 17 Amps is my Max constant discharge rate. The 25/25-26 is rated at a 15 amp Max draw and a 4-8 Amp continuous current draw (6100 rpm/volt). This would apparently not over-tax the batteries but the motor is slated to fly something that is no more than 500g (that's close in terms of my all up weight). The 35-20 is rated at a 7-15 continuous current draw (2850 RPM/volt) but spikes at 25 Amps. Since it is a heli and the chances that I will fly it to the hilt are slim ( I have a Trex for that..) would it be unreasonable to get the 35-20 and just be careful or am I asking for battery damage no matter how careful I might be? Would the 25-26 be sufficient? Thanks in advance!!

Mark

[Ray K.]

Hi Mark!

I'm a little concerned about your motor choices. Indeed, it's hard to argue with the prices. My biggest concern is that of the gearboxes- will those be easy to remove, and will they mount up to the ACP fuse correctly? The other thing is that the 25/25-26 has a KV of 6100, and that's going to be difficult to cope with. You're going to need a really tiny pinion to keep your headspeed in check, and I'm not sure that it's even going to be possible to get a pinion with that few teeth. The other motor seems to be a bit more appropriate in terms of it's KV rating, but you're totally justified in being concerned about it's amperage draw. The fact that you have 13C batteries is kind of going to be your limiting factor. Remember that it's not only your main motor that's pulling power- you're going to need at least another 2A for the tail motor, and I'm guessing that the servos and gyro are going to need another 2 or 3A to be happy.

I really hate to keep pushing the EFlite Park 370 as a good candidate for the main motor, but it's been great for me so far and all of it's numbers are what we need for an ACP. That, and the EFlite pinions mesh perfectly with the ACP main gear, removing another complication. The Park 370 inrunner/4100 KV that I'm using pulls a maximum of 9A, so there's plenty of battery left to run all the other essentials. Given that you've got a 25A controller, maybe you'd consider a Park 400. With the added weight of the metal head and the gyro and the LiPo that's about the same weight as the stock battery, some extra power would probably be a good thing. I can't really say what the amp draw on the Park 400 is, but it may also be dangerously close to putting too much load on your battery. I'd take a serious look at the 370, and use it with the 10T pinion so that you get good torque to the head. If you're hell-bent on the Jet motor, I'd go with the 35-20 and fly very conservatively... you're going to be in peril of smoking your battery if you fly it too hard. Tower Hobbies has a large selection of ElectriFly Ammo BL motors that are all reasonably priced, and you're sure to find at least one that will be appropriate.

BTW, what are you doing for a tail motor ESC?

-Ray

[Major Bladebreaker]

Ray,

I figured as much about your advice and I forgot about the head speed issue. Thanks! I haven't looked at the park 400 yet but obviously the 370 would work. I sort of used it as a standard when looking at ammo motors: what about the 20-30-4300? 4300 kV, 16 max draw, 9 amp continuous. My only concern is that the heli would be a little lethargic but I may not be able to help it with my setup. Another option is an outrunner: the rimfire 28-26-1000 (12 a constant, 15 max) might fit the bill but it has a 28 mm diameter which may not fit on the frame (I haven't measured). Also, I may not get the right head speed. Sure can't beat the price! Are they good quality motors? Any thoughts? BTW, I have an electrifly c-10 ESC for the tail.

Mark

[Ray K.]

Mark-

I think that the ElectriFly motor you picked would be fine. I've played around with the idea of using an outrunner motor also, but it seems like one of those deals where it turns out being more complicated that it would appear. My biggest issue was whether or not it would mount correctly, and if it would make problems trying to mount the battery. In terms of the quality of the ElectriFly motors, I have no reason to think that they're not good. I've used a couple ESCs and a motor, and all of my LiPos are ElectriFly and I find the quality and value of their stuff to be very good. I wouldn't worry too much about it!

For the helicopter being a little lethargic, I wouldn't be too concerned. If the performance that I've been getting from my Park 370 is any indication of what you could expect from a similar motor, it's going to breathe new life into your Axe. It's by no means a very powerful helicopter, but it's definitely got enough cojones to do some basic aerobatics without difficulty. My configuration bogs a little at the pitch extremes (±12°), but that's kind of to be expected. It lacks the collective pop that the 'Rex has, but there's certainly way more power available than stock, and enough power to make it pretty entertaining to fly. Think of it like a "3D lite" helicopter and you won't be disappointed. It won't have the power to fly tricks like Tic-Tocks or Piro-Flips, but it should be able to roll, loop, and flip cleanly. The bottom line is that I've been more than pleased with my Park 370, and any motor that's similar should make for a pretty lively Axe.

I had a thought the other day... It seems to me like the issue with the FrankenAxe is not power- it's the blades. I was looking around for blades that are a little longer than the stock 250mm blades, and discovered that HeliMax MX400 blades might actually fit the Axe's blade grips. They're like 280mm, and I think that might be the magic length. Have you had a chance to fly with the CF Axe blades, or know anyone that has? I'm curious to see if they're worth the $40. Otherwise, my quest for better Axe blades is ongoing... Anything with a 4.5mm root, an appropriately sized bolt hole, and is 270-290mm long should fit the bill I think.

-Ray

[carloserizzo]

Hi Ray

I just received my park 370 motor, and to be honest, its a lot more smaller than what I was thinking. I havent unmount the original motor yet, but the park motor definitely its smaller. What heat sink did you use? By your photos it's the same of the axe's original motor, but, does it fit the park motor?

I ordered my dx7 too, hope to receive it with no problems!

Let's keep in touch. I'm kind of busy because of college, but when I have a little time, I'll modify my axe.

BTW, why do you want to move to bigger blades? what kind of issues are you having?

See you!

[sog75]

I know a little more than u guys do. Try using the Himax 2025 - 4200 kv Motor and a 10 tooth pinion.

You will be amazed!!!

[Ray K.]

I was looking at the specs on that Himax motor... While I'm sure that it would be awesome in an Axe, my batteries aren't quite up to the task. I have 15C / 1250 mAh LiPos, and I'm afraid that the amperage rating on that motor is going to overwhelm my 18A maximum discharge- I'll be using all of the battery's power to run the motor, and I'm afraid that once the radio gear is taken into account I'll be putting too much load on my batteries.

That's why I was looking into longer blades. I think that if I can take the headspeed back down to 2500 rpm by putting the 10T pinion back on, I'll have the torque to spin longer blades. With my Park 370 (and yes, it is small Carlos!) and the headspeed up around 3000 rpm, I hover at almost 8° of pitch. The helicopter is behaving as if it's just not got enough lift. The power is there, just not the collective power. I'm only 20g (5% of spec weight) heavier than stock with my current setup, and I have a hard time believing that 20g is too much extra weight.

If I had better batteries, I would run that Himax motor. I've just about decided to stop putting big money into the Axe anymore. I'll continue to fly it as it is, but I would rather save up some money for a Hurricane 550. I'll try the longer blades, and probably leave it at that. I wish I would have known about that motor when I was ordering parts to do separations!

-Ray

[sog75]

Okay, I will let u in on the secret. The Axe has all the right parts except the tail. I have a belt mod from Freestyle Hobbies ( Austraila Long Wait for Parts) Works Perfect - No Autorotation. I have a CC Phoenix 25 and GY240. The Little Himax 2025 works perfect with a 10 tooth. My battery is a Thunder Power 3S 1320(13-17C Continuous 20-25C Burst). You will be absolutely amazed at the power. I run the CC 25 in governor mode and the headspeed is 2800 - 3000. The motor gets warm like fuzzy slippers but never over 120F I can hover with like 5 degrees of pitch. AUWeight is 19.3 oz. Just like a mini trex that I can fly in the living room. Just working out the fine tuning on pitch curves now.

By the way my first motor was the park 370 4200kv. Close but nothing like the Himaxx 2025 4200kv. You want a longer can 20mm brushless motor. I dont have a way to measure amp draw yet but working on it. I used KC's heli spreadsheet to do the "Heli Math"

I hope this helps.

[Ray K.]

I saw that belt tail mod a couple months ago, and considered doing it. My concern was that the heli was going to be a little tail heavy, and I was also worried that the total flying weight was going to be too much. So, after thinking about what you had to say, and running some numbers on how to build the "ultimate" ACP, I've decided not to do it. After considering that I would take a new motor, ESC, LiPos, a new set of servos, and an all metal head, it's just too expensive to justify. Almost $500 to build a really kick-ass ACP just doesn't make sense when that puts me in the neighborhood of being able to get a Hurricane 550 or Lepton or something similar. I could put all this money into the ACP, but I'll still have a helicopter that's going to disappear from view at 50 yards and will still not be able to handle wind very well. I think I'll just save my money for a bigger bird, and keep the FrankenAxe as my backyard bang-around heli. After all, it is just an Axe.

-Ray

[markind]

And don't forget the VERY interesting eFlite Blade 400. I could get that, retire the ACP, and give the DX6i radio to my son. Hmmm nice xmas deal... :P

[carloserizzo]

Well Ray, until today still waiting for my trex 450 s and DX7. Hope to receive it for christmas. Probably I will need some of your help to set up the heli.

Keep in touch

[carloserizzo]

Hi guys! Merry almost christmas. While waiting for my trex, I'm installing the brushless motor to my Axe. Ray (or any of you), what's the BRAKE function if the thunderbird 18 for? Do you have this function in ON or OFF mode with the main motor?

[Major Bladebreaker]

Folks (Ray in particular),

It's been a while since I wrote. A couple of posts ago I was talking to you guys about an Axe separation and at the time was waiting for a brushless motor. It took me forever to get an Ammo 4300 Kv from Tower hobbies (I'm posted overseas) and I finally put it all together yesterday. Ray, I left the brushed motor on the tail as you suggested in DD format with the 3.25" GWS blades but the tail had absolutely no authority whatsoever when I made the first flight. The heli started spinning out of control despite the fact that the little tail motor was turning as fast as it could go and I had the rudder stick hard over. The fact that I put 400-size blades on it may not have helped but in any case, it all should have worked. Perhaps I hooked it up incorrectly? Anyway, any suggestions would help!

Mark

[Ray K.]

Carlos-

Turn the brake OFF! If it's left on, the motor will actively try to slow the head instead of allowing it to free-wheel down. Brake = bad!

Mark-

Is the prop installed in the correct orientation? If it's not that, make sure that the motor is spinning the prop clockwise when viewed from the helicopter's right side. Finally, try switching the direction pot on the gyro. Don't feel too bad- it took me several tries to nail it down.

Merry Christmas everyone!

-Ray

[carloserizzo]

Here I am again. This time I have to make an order to keep the trex in the air for a little while before going to my LHS. Remember that here in Venezuela is harder to find replacement parts, and they are LOT MORE expensive. So I will make an order from a US web store and send it here. I would like to know what are the parts that will crash easily in a crash (little crash). I'm thinking of blades, blade grips and maybe the tail belt, anything else?

[Major Bladebreaker]

Folks,

Merry Christmas everyone!! Ray, thanks for the advice, I'll check that out after the Christmas rush. I'm seriously thinking about doing the Freestyle Hobby belt mod after having had constant problems with the tail. I have an exra Trex tail already and so the kit will cost me a whole $63.00 plus shipping. I have invested quite a bit on the Heli in terms of a full metal head and a brushless system so another 63 bucks in order to be able to fly it consistently seems worth it. My only concern is balance as it seems to me that the tail servo may throw things off quite a bit. I'm going to tape an HS 65 onto it later just to check the balance but what do people think about the mod? Anyway, I hope you guys have a great holiday!!