rate these upgrades for a more efficent system

[bryman021]

Right now I have my 500efl pro setup as follows:
Stock 500mx motor
Stock align 70 amp esc w/bec
DS510m on cyclic DS520 on tail
Microbeast with ar6210 rx with included sat off rx
425D align flybarred blades

I converted my 500e pro from flybar to fbl hence the 425d
Blades. Has align efl head block on it.
Flying style is hard sport with some flips,rolls, etc
Style is advancing towards 3D. . .

So I want to make some changes and wondering which of these would be most beneficial
To my setup.
1. Fbl blades
2. External bec (looking at WR hercules lineup)
3. CC ICE 75 amp esc (to run a governed headspeed)

I plan on eventually getting all 3 but right now $$ is a limiting factor.
Right now though if I could only get 1 of these which one would
Have the biggest impact on my setup, I guess the main thing I'm thinking about is servo load
And the possibility of frying my current esc/bec.
Will the fbl blades help reduce strain on the servos, or would
An external bec be better 1st to allow higher amps? Or should I get the cc ice 75 esc 1st.
If only I could just pop on all 3 life would be good!
Or am I maybe overthinking this and just stay with what I've got?

[Andy from Sandy]

Hang the blades up by their bolt holes and see how they hang. If straight down then they will have the least loading on the servos.

IMO it is important for the headspeed to remain constant from the first minute to the last minute in order that the flight is consistent. So I would say get an ESC that has a good governor mode.

[Deet]

425D blades were "FBL" versions according to Align, until they then produced a 3G version...

I run "standard" radix on my FBL 500 and love them. But If I'm totally honest, they are not worth the extra money over a set of 425Ds

External BEC won't make the heli fly any better, unless the internal one is underrated. The Align one is fine

Gov is a good thing... BUT the ICE 75 does have an underrated BEC so if you go there you should get an external BEC

Better still: IMHO sell the BeastX, buy a Vbar, use the Vbar gov on the Align ESC and you have a rocket ship...

[zap357]

Why do you say the ICE 75 has an under-rated BEC? As far as i know both the Align and CC ICE Esc's are good for 3A cont/5A peak.

[Deet]

CC in their own docs only rate the internal BEC for a max of 3 digital servos

[zap357]

Thats just for the regular Phoenix ESC's. The ICE series has a better BEC. In the newer instructions they actually specify they are good for 5A peak. They have a table showing BEC usage for the regular Phoenix then expalin the difference between the ICE and HV esc's. Dont know why they dont just do a different manual for the ICE's, it confused me at first .

http://www.castlecreations.com/support/documents/Phoenix_User_Guide.pdf

[bryman021]

Thats just for the regular Phoenix ESC's. The ICE series has a better BEC. In the newer instructions they actually specify they are good for 5A peak. They have a table showing BEC usage for the regular Phoenix then expalin the difference between the ICE and HV esc's. Dont know why they dont just do a different manual for the ICE's, it confused me at first .

http://www.castlecreations.com/support/documents/Phoenix_User_Guide.pdf



Yeah the user guide confused me at first too! Lots of info for the regular phoenix, and a big chart that scares you about the bec. Then under all that they say "oh yeah the ice is better", but don't give you much info on it.

[bryman021]

I know the bec issue has been beat to death, but I wish the manufacturers would just provide some accurate info on servo amp usage. I know it can very based on how hard you work them, but it seems like an area that is missing.

To be safe I think I'm going to go with the ice 75 and either a cc bec pro or the WR hercules high current bec. Then I know I'm covered and can have the benefit of running governed.
With winter time being here I'm can't get out much now anyways so i can order the esc now and hopefully after xmas get the bec I decide on.

Then maybe ill order some edge or radix fbl blades and see if they feel any different.

Then its on to my 450 sport which I just also upgraded to fbl and I think I wanna do something similiar with it.

[Hyaloid]

the esc u have is good enough. i have the 60A version ( same as 70A but smaller heatsink)
i have approx 1000 flights on it with 3*DS510 and bls 251 fullsize on tail with MX motor and fullsize vbar. using the vbar to govern it.

Keep it like it is..Max out flat 100 curve non governed and max out your head setup if you want a more aggressive heli. Adding an ice 75 and wr bec is just making it heavier.

[Deet]

+1

nothing you propose will make the heli "more efficient"

your just adding weight

best thing i every did performance wise on my 500(after going FBL) was to stop running 3000mAh packs. I dropped to 2650mAh dropped about 100gms in weight and the thing goes like a rocket

WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY

BTW its about 1 to 1.5A per servo from what I can see, on a 500 with the FBL controller on top of that. So you will easily get 4A continous with peaks OVER 6A

[bryman021]

I think I'm more confused now then when I first posted this thread. I just hate the thought of my precious heli falling out of the sky for something that could be prevented, I guess by efficient I was thinking more along the line of the bec/amp load and making sure the electronics can all work together without a failure.

If the amps are peaking over 6 how does the stock align esc that is rated at 5A peak handle that? Seems to me that its right at the point where it could fail at any moment?

[Deet]

the Align is fine, been running one for over 2 years, and nearly 18 months on Vbar with 510/520 servos

the only thing wrong with the align is the Gov is terrible.

That is the only reason you would go to the ICE75

i used to fly with flat throttle curves on the align and it was almost as good as running a governor

[smartev]

The BEC in the CC100A will cause my vbar to reset when Vbar moves all 3 cyclic servos to show initialization complete.

So definitely get an external BEC

Why do you say the ICE 75 has an under-rated BEC? As far as i know both the Align and CC ICE Esc's are good for 3A cont/5A peak.

[smartev]

Get the Hobbywing Platinium 100A. It is a great ESC. One Pro guy told their Governor is great too. But I never try, so I cannot recommand on that. I am going to run Vbar governor through the HW100A on my 500.

Actually the HW100A has a 4A BEC, it is enough to power a 500 size. I am using an Western Robotics 5A bec because I used to have some unknown problem with my 500. I thought it might be the problem of the HW BEC, but finally found it is because of Vibrations. Did not have time to take the WR BEC out yet.

I am now running all Hobbywing. Very powerful, Very happy! Look at my signature!

They have the 100A and 80A on Black Friday sale now, only $59!!!, Normal price is $89

http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-platinum-100a.html

Right now I have my 500efl pro setup as follows:
Stock 500mx motor
Stock align 70 amp esc w/bec
DS510m on cyclic DS520 on tail
Microbeast with ar6210 rx with included sat off rx
425D align flybarred blades

I converted my 500e pro from flybar to fbl hence the 425d
Blades. Has align efl head block on it.
Flying style is hard sport with some flips,rolls, etc
Style is advancing towards 3D. . .

So I want to make some changes and wondering which of these would be most beneficial
To my setup.
1. Fbl blades
2. External bec (looking at WR hercules lineup)
3. CC ICE 75 amp esc (to run a governed headspeed)

I plan on eventually getting all 3 but right now $$ is a limiting factor.
Right now though if I could only get 1 of these which one would
Have the biggest impact on my setup, I guess the main thing I'm thinking about is servo load
And the possibility of frying my current esc/bec.
Will the fbl blades help reduce strain on the servos, or would
An external bec be better 1st to allow higher amps? Or should I get the cc ice 75 esc 1st.
If only I could just pop on all 3 life would be good!
Or am I maybe overthinking this and just stay with what I've got?

[Deet]

if you are going to use the vbar gov, the standard Align ESC works perfectly, and again no need for external BEC.

Also there is anecdotal evidence that the WR BEC can cause glitches on the Hyperion phase sensor that you need to use for the Vbar Gov

[smartev]

I just realized that, So I am going to use the internal BEC of the HW.

Do you have anything to recommend for my 600EFL. I am still building it. Will run HW70AHV and using Hyperion sensor too. What BEC to use. The WR10A is on its way......

if you are going to use the vbar gov, the standard Align ESC works perfectly, and again no need for external BEC.

Also there is anecdotal evidence that the WR BEC can cause glitches on the Hyperion phase sensor that you need to use for the Vbar Gov

[HeliBenj]

Get the Hobbywing Platinium 100A. It is a great ESC. One Pro guy told their Governor is great too. But I never try, so I cannot recommand on that. I am going to run Vbar governor through the HW100A on my 500.

Actually the HW100A has a 4A BEC, it is enough to power a 500 size. I am using an Western Robotics 5A bec because I used to have some unknown problem with my 500. I thought it might be the problem of the HW BEC, but finally found it is because of Vibrations. Did not have time to take the WR BEC out yet.

I am now running all Hobbywing. Very powerful, Very happy! Look at my signature!

They have the 100A and 80A on Black Friday sale now, only $59!!!, Normal price is $89

http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-platinum-100a.html

Just for the record, the HW 60A platinum is more than enough. It has the same 4A BEC which has proved to hold voltage better than the Align 70A ESC and comes down cool for me everytime this inclues drawing 2300 mAh out of a 3000 in 4:00 with a lot of hammering... I know the 100A is not so much more expensive and heavy but just wanted to say 60A is perfect for me

[smartev]

I think you are probably right, but the 100A is on sale here right now, lower than the regular price of the 60A.

And by the way, on the manual, it says the 60A has a 3A BEC....At least on my manual

Just for the record, the HW 60A platinum is more than enough. It has the same 4A BEC which has proved to hold voltage better than the Align 70A ESC and comes down cool for me everytime this inclues drawing 2300 mAh out of a 3000 in 4:00 with a lot of hammering... I know the 100A is not so much more expensive and heavy but just wanted to say 60A is perfect for me

[HeliBenj]

I know, this is a mistake, the 60A, 80A and 100A have the same BEC (and the same casing), mine says 4A on the case and the manual.
I had mine for 34$ on ebay, that's why I went with the 60A at first.

BTW, I have installed the Align ESC with stock motor to compare vs mini pyro / HW.

The BEC on the HW holds voltage better. I set 5.2v on the Align BEC and minimum during flight is 4.92v. Minimum with HW is around 5.1v so it holds voltage better.

Mini pyro has a bit more torque than align motor although it is rated for less power. Align runs cool but mini pyro runs even cooler, ambient temp! Overall Align motor holds comparison very well IMO. How long it will last still remains to be seen though

[Deet]

The Align BEC does work most efficiently at 6V, i only get about .1 volt drop in flight.

Its probably no co-incidence that all the Align electronics are also rated at 6V.

And as another interesting note the ESC is noticeably cooler when the BEC is set to 6V as well.

It may be counter intuitive but the reg doesn't have to work as hard dropping the voltage to 6V as it does dropping to 5. (this is the case with any voltage reg)

[HeliBenj]

Makes sense! To be noted I run a full size on the tail so that could account for the superior amp draw too?
Unfortunately the BLS254 I have on the tail is not recommended to run on 6v. Of course I could run a step down and I think I'm going to do that. This way I will also be able to compare voltage drop on the same setup at 6v vs 5.2

Anyway a voltage drop to 4.9v from 5.2 I consider still acceptable although not the best

[beenflying]

The Align BEC does work most efficiently at 6V, i only get about .1 volt drop in flight.

Its probably no co-incidence that all the Align electronics are also rated at 6V.

And as another interesting note the ESC is noticeably cooler when the BEC is set to 6V as well.

It may be counter intuitive but the reg doesn't have to work as hard dropping the voltage to 6V as it does dropping to 5. (this is the case with any voltage reg)
A switch mode power supply doesn't work any harder dropping the voltage more. You are thinking of a linear power supply. The reason it gets hotter is because when you lower the voltage the current has to go up to produce the same wattage (drive the same load).

[helidude71]

Put on the ICE 75 and set up the governor.
It's great.
I use the internal BEC with no problems at all.
Sports flight and starting with 3D.

No need for an external BEC.

Just my 2ct.

[HeliBenj]

Makes sense! To be noted I run a full size on the tail so that could account for the superior amp draw too?
Unfortunately the BLS254 I have on the tail is not recommended to run on 6v. Of course I could run a step down and I think I'm going to do that. This way I will also be able to compare voltage drop on the same setup at 6v vs 5.2

Anyway a voltage drop to 4.9v from 5.2 I consider still acceptable although not the best

Just to follow up, tried the Align BEC at 6v and it did worse than 5.2v, it dropped .4v in flight at 6v vs .3v when set at 5.2.
HW BEC with same equipment drop .1v so looks like it's holding voltage better

I have ordered a YGE 80 to get a good gov so I'll try thi one on and see how the BEC does and what the min voltage will look like. Looking forward to this one as it's small and light weight and gov is said to be great