heli flying for film industry ?

[steve28]

I ran into a guy at the LHS who saw my T-REX 600 and asked me if I knew how to fly it . "Of course I do" I said to the guy , well he told me that he was in the film industry and that he did stunt work and bit parts . This guy said that I should try hitting up the film studio union and put my name in as an RC heli pilot . The idea being that the film industry can use a RC heli with a mounted camera to get cool airial shots for TV or what have you . THis guy made it sound like there arent alot of skilled RC pilots around doing this work so they I would probably get calls .

Is this a pipe dream or is it reality ? What should I do , what do I need ? I can fly really well, Im sure I can do whatever it is they would ask . Im just not sure how I should go about this . Help please

[cbergen]

Take a look at this,

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=37946

[ErichF]

Take up contest flying. You need to be able to fly upright with precision in all orientations. Precision as in hovering over a specific point for a long time, or moving with precision over an exact ground track at an exact speed.

Contest flying will teach you all that.

Erich

[steve28]

yah I can upright all day long , Im working on inverted funnels right now , hovering over a spot is a cake walk , there is little contest flying going on where I live so its not an option .

That link to the video was cool you can actually see the shadow of the helicopter in some of the airial shots .

[cbergen]

What Eric is getting at is that you won't be doing many inverted funnels while filming.... :lol:

Instead, concentrate on smooth, and I do mean smooooth, precise flying, just like what the FAI guys strive for. Nothing worse than a jerky video..... :glasses2:

[ErichF]

yah I can upright all day long , Im working on inverted funnels right now , hovering over a spot is a cake walk , there is little contest flying going on where I live so its not an option .

Cake walk, eh?

Get yourself one of those little bicycle or roller-blade course cones from Canadian Tire and set that out on the line. Try holding a hover over that thing for at least half a tank. Have someone behind and to the side of you to coach you onto the cone and tell you when you are off of it. Then start doing 360 degree pirouettes over the cone while climing and descending.

If you can, you're a better pilot than Scott Gray!

Also, no one said you had to enter a contest to try contest flying. Didn't you ever play basketball without having a full game?

Here, if you can do these manuevers, over the cones, you MAY have a chance at film flying.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0708rulebook/RC%20Helicopter.pdf

Scroll down to Class II manuevers, or even Class III and see if you can do them without them helicopter spazzing all over the field. Get video, too. Otherwise, no one will take your word for it.

Have fun,

Erich

[DebianDog]

Knowing how to come out of an inverted funnel may save your AP ship on a "bad day" though. :lol:

Although I have never been complimented on my "Mad 3Dz Skillz" I have been told by more than on person, that I fly very smooth.

I want to be a smooth smacker like Clintstone when I grow up :mrgreen:

[steve28]

why are you guys being so negative about my wanting to try AP/ AV , look my flying upright is solid , of course doing funnels isnt that important while filming but thats not the point , the point is I moved onto more challenging flight patterns because upright hovering and circuits was kinda boring . I was hoping you guys might give me some positive advice on equipment or who to talk to but thats fine I understand that there is alot of money to be had in this and that you guys that are in it probably dont want to encourage others who might take a slice of your pie , whatever .
As with everything in life trying somthing new requires that you start small and build on it . Im going to strap digital camera to my T-REX 600 and see what sort of flight movies I can make, should be fun and if i like it I'll do more . Eventually it may lead somwhere .
Thanks for nothing :badair:

[DebianDog]

No... there is just a lot to it. The "easy" part is putting a camera in the air underneath a helicopter. The hard part is flying smooth, knowing the right people, and having the "balls" to put $4,000-$50,000 dollars worth of gear (helicopter/ camera/ downlink/ stabaization/ etc) in the air.

I have a "low budget" High Def set up (probably $6000 in camera and gear) and a big ($2000) helicopter and my phone is not ringing off the hook or anything. ;)

[steve28]

well I live in "Hollywood North" so mabey Im in a better position . I just needed advice not negative dissuasion

[Art-Tistic]

Steve,
No offense but coming from a person who makes a living producing videos I would say your best chance of doing any film work will be for "indys" and that's because they don't have a budget for the pros. Hollywood will look to the likes of FlyingCam for their big budget productions. Personally I have been flying for 20 years and producing video (non-aerial) for 17years. I know how to fly, shoot and correctly setup cameras and helicopters and still I have worked for 3 years to put together a system that produces reliable/predictable results. Nobody here is affraid of competition. Rather we are concerned about people jumping in feet first with their eyes closed. It's one thing to have a mishap and put a model in at a flying field but it's a whole different story when you that happen on a set or any hired location for that matter. The advise given by many here is really just a kind way of saying do a lot of homework before you even think about trying this for compensation :wink:

JM2C
Regards,
Anthony

[DebianDog]

I just needed advice not negative dissuasion

We were just having a bit of fun with you because of the nonchalant attitude. You going to need a LOT thicker skin if you are going to be in the "biz". Tons of people here have LOTS of experience and are GLAD to help. I would suggest you read. A lot.

The "funnel comment" is just funny - Sorry - Lots of people "think" they fly/hover well but in reality they don't at least not for AP work. Heck... I used to think I hover pretty well but once I put a hook on a base mount and tried to pick it up with the skids of the helicopter. Reality is a hard teacher.

You might want to pick up a cheap camera, some foam, and attach it to your helicopter. Then attempt to hover and smooth fly around with it attached to the helicopter a see how good it actually is once you look at it on the big screen.

Once you are satisfied with that you may want to speak with your "movie buddies" up north and see what type of resolution and gear they expect you to have. Then buy the gear you will need.

Lastly CBergen actually MAKES the film helicopters many people here use he was just having a bit of fun with ya. Of course if you want one of his "top of the line" turbine helicopters it is going to cost about $11,000 but will carry about anything you want to attach to it.
http://www.bergenrc.com/ObserverTurbine.php

:hug:

[ErichF]

why are you guys being so negative about my wanting to try AP..... I was hoping you guys might give me some positive advice on equipment or who to talk to ......Thanks for nothing :badair:

Dude, either you can't read, or you are quite the idiot.

No one was negative, nor was anyone telling you not to do something. We DID give you advice that would help. YOU CHOSE to ignore it because you think yer shit don't stink because you can do a funnel. You are just too damn lazy to acquire the skills we are telling you that you need.

"None are so blind, as those who will not see."

Stick with your shit hot stick banging, maybe you'll get to be another team pilot.

[sky high]

To the original poster. You said film so I don't know if you meant television too. Both are similar in that neither industry likes to spend money. I currently work in the film/television industry, mostly television, and have worked on several reality shows as a camera operator on various networks and I currently fly a Draganflyer SAVS but would really like to have a Bergen Turbine. I have spoken to alot of production managers and producers that I have worked for and others I would like to work for about the use of RC helos for low cost AP. They all love the idea, the shots and especially the lower cost instead of a full size but production budgets are VERY tight on these shows and to be honest, aerial shots really have to be absolutely necessary for them to be considered and budgeted for. Then comes the rate that you want to charge for it to be worth your time and investment. The fact is, like I said, if it's not critical to the show, they just don't want to pay for it just because it's cool. I spoke to the producers of The First 48 and Dallas SWAT on A&E which would have been a perfect fit for low altitude embedded aerials but they just didn't get it or most likely didn't want to pay. I also pitched it to Mythbusters on Discovery and some of the makeover shows like Extreme Home Makeover on ABC, one on TLC, etc. and it's the same story. You have to get to the decision makers when these shows are in development and budgets are being created to have a better chance of success. The last inquiry for my helo for television was for Two A Days on MTV. The first thing they wanted to know was the rate and what kind of insurance coverage I had which is another expense you will have to manage when working in this industry. The bottom line is that it's a harder sell than you would think. It really comes down to who you know and if you can get the premium shots that are necessary and if it can save the producers significant money.

[steve28]

Thanks skyhigh ,

finally someone actually answers my query with some usefull information .
On the issue of cost , isnt the cost actually coming down ? With the cost of electric helis coming down and that the battery technology is only going to get better . Also the price of HD cameras and camcorders is also dropping alot too so you your . We should be a t the point now where its not nessasary to buy a turbine bergen to do this job . I see mabey commercials or , short tv spots as being the better avenue for this , but mabey Im wrong , Im just speculating . Insurance I imagine will be a headache .

[sky high]

The Dog is 100% correct about being ready for the crap the production industry can and will put you through. As much as I thoroughly enjoy what I do, if I wasn't so heavily invested in production gear, I probably would have found something else to do a while back because of the crap I have endured. I'm not the only one though. I've seen others go through the same and much worse. Anyway, I do think you may have taken what they said too seriously. But I also understand that if you can trick fly then you should easily be able to maintain a steady hover. Most shots in reality shows don't last more than 5 seconds anyway.

The cost is not only the gear to get it done but your skill to operate that gear. I own/operate an 18' jib as shown below. That is what is usually used for very precise overhead flying shots but it is very heavy and takes time, although not much, to reset it's position if needed. The day rate for that gear is $1000 / day and up to $1250 with a DV/HDV camera package. The camera format significantly increases the price with high end HD and/or film packages. Longer jibs and cranes with reaches as long as 40 to 100ft cost more in addition to the camera packages. But the average jib length used is 21 to 30 ft. So, I price a day rate for an RC helo at $2000 which includes labor as a pilot with all accessories and insurance. The tape stock is usually provided by the client. That rate is between the cost of the longest typical jib's lens height and below a full size helo's hourly/day rate with pilot, gyro mount (Wescam/Cineflex, etc.). The justifcation is that any shot above the reach of a jib or tall structure couldn't be gotten any other way other than an aircraft and if it can be done with RC, why not? But, just because you can get to that height with RC, the shot still has to meet the standards of the project such as a steady frame and picture quality to cut well with the other footage and that's what you have to convince the producers and production manager with. Then there's the safety factor. You will most likely never fly near a crowd and especially not near the main cast members.

[aramsdell]

Did the FAA suddenly make it legal to fly R/C for money again or are you all ignoring the rulings from earlier this year?????

[ErichF]

Hollywood makes it's own rules.
:D