How come the Nitro cost more than 600 electric?

[felborn]

Im wondering why the Nitro kit without engine and muffler cost more than a pro electric version that comes with a ESC, BEC and an engine? Am I missing something, or are there a good reason to why it's more costly to produce the nitro version?

[Finless]

Well more parts needed for a nitro for one. Fan, Clutch, Start shaft, Fan shroud, etc... Also the kit comes with the Torque tube upgrade and the electric does not ($110 extra).

Bob

[Gscott]

Don't forget the $80+ painted canopy.

[mporlier]

I am building a cost analysis for a new 600CF electric VS Nitro considering the following factor:

Start from scratch meaning no charger/balancer or no Field equipment for nitro

I can line up 4 packs without crashing my 450SE if I keep it cool. But if I try something out I will crash 80%. So I figure I will crash me heli. Why do I say this? I am scared of loosing a 300$ pack in a crash and this is a decision factor for me.

I have chosen 4 batteries in order to try and get air time equal with nitro. Meaning I could in theory fly all day with 4 packs.

Here is the link http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=prXWqdbwP-SHzNxeiNOxmBg

Please feel free to comment any help will do!

[felborn]

Aha, so the carbon fiber electric 600 dont come with a torgue tube then? Well thats a big part of the difference then. Cant see Fan, clutch etc costing more then the electric motor, ESC and BEC tho? It's abit pricey compared to a raptor, so I look forward to the first comparisions on them. Hurry up guys, get your in air :mrgreen:

[Tintin]

You haven't taken any nitro into account I notice.

4 batteries, none damaged in crashes would amount to something like 600 flights.
600 *250 ml is about 40 cans of nitro which here will cost about $ 1700....

Fuel line clamps are included and you'll need a gyro to complete the picture for those that don't have one in a drawer.
If you're new to nitro you'll need a starter with batteries and a glow ignitor, rx battery or bec/battery

[mporlier]

You haven't taken any nitro into account I notice.

4 batteries, none damaged in crashes would amount to something like 600 flights.
600 *250 ml is about 40 cans of nitro which here will cost about $ 1700....

These are exactly the comments I want thank you. I figure 5min flight time per pack so I would like to have a cost per minute not per flight. I read everywhere that with a tank the 600N will fly 8 min max.

What is the capacity of the tank and the cost of nitro taking that into account? I will update my sheet.

EDIT:

So here it goes cost per minute

Electric: 300.00$ / 150 cycles / 5 min per flight = 0.40$ per min

Nitro: 1 30$ gallon= 3 785 ml / 440 ml per tank = 8.602 flights per gallon
8.602 x 8 min = 68.82 min per gallon
30$ gallon/68.82 min = 0.44$ per min

So Nitro looks more expensive... Until your first bad Lipo pack

[mporlier]

You haven't taken any nitro into account I notice.

4 batteries, none damaged in crashes would amount to something like 600 flights.
600 *250 ml is about 40 cans of nitro which here will cost about $ 1700....

Fuel line clamps are included and you'll need a gyro to complete the picture for those that don't have one in a drawer.
If you're new to nitro you'll need a starter with batteries and a glow ignitor, rx battery or bec/battery

I do have a gyro in the drawer lol.

The nitro field equipment is in the list. It is the CarryMaster TT1263. It includes everything

[mporlier]

sorry double post cant delete

[Gscott]

Not sure why you think the 600n will only fly 8 minutes. I believe only one person claimed that while the rest of the world is easily getting 8 minutes from a Raptor and a much smaller tank. You should easily get 10 minutes unless you are running it very rich.

I only pay $16 for 30% so changing your formula to account for 10 minute flights I get $0.18 per min which I why I still fly nitro.

[mporlier]

Not sure why you think the 600n will only fly 8 minutes. I believe only one person claimed that while the rest of the world is easily getting 8 minutes from a Raptor and a much smaller tank. You should easily get 10 minutes unless you are running it very rich.

I only pay $16 for 30% so changing your formula to account for 10 minute flights I get $0.18 per min which I why I still fly nitro.

Ok I will give you the 10 minutes. As for nitro I have seen price range from your 16$ to 35$ so I will go 25$. It still makes nitro less expensive.

I was being VERY conservative. I am leaning towards nitro for my next heli. I just need to convince myself (and the other half!) That it is the good thing to do. :D

[felborn]

I did a poll on how many people damaged the battery during a crash, or puffed them. Go check it out, unless you dont push yourself at all and never crash, odds are your 200$ battery will be replaced long before it dies of old age.

[mporlier]

I did a poll on how many people damaged the battery during a crash, or puffed them. Go check it out, unless you dont push yourself at all and never crash, odds are your 200$ battery will be replaced long before it dies of old age.

Can you give me the link?

[DebianDog]

I did a poll on how many people damaged the battery during a crash, or puffed them. Go check it out, unless you dont push yourself at all and never crash, odds are your 200$ battery will be replaced long before it dies of old age.

Can you give me the link?

http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=38257

[speedpass]

Electric: 300.00$ / 150 cycles / 5 min per flight = 0.40$ per min
Nitro: 1 30$ gallon= 3 785 ml / 440 ml per tank = 8.602 flights per gallon
8.602 x 8 min = 68.82 min per gallon
30$ gallon/68.82 min = 0.44$ per min


The cost & time spend for 1hr fly for Nitro is still $0.44 per min plus exactly 1hr.
The cost & time for 1hr fly for electric is $0.40 per min. plus extra chargers, extra batteries, extra deep cycle marine batteries or generator, 4 to 5 hrs charging time.

[mporlier]

Ok so here is my modified budget:

Electric: 300.00$ / 150 cycles / 5 min per flight = 0.40$ per min
Nitro: 25$ gallon= 3 785 ml / 440 ml per tank = 8.602 flights per gallon
8.602 x 10 min = 86 min per gallon
25$ gallon/86min = 0.29$ per min

I looked at the poll for Lipo crashes and I dont like it even if it shows not a lot of dammaged lipos.

[Gscott]

That poll was a little bizarre. If you went by the comments you would think not alot of people damage lipos in a crash but the actual results showed 65% had damaged a pack.

[erniefritz]

try doing a poll on how many people have had to replace or rebuild their Nitro engine cause a crash has damaged it. Cracked cases , sheared off carbs , bad bearings , rings gone bad , bent crank.

You might be supprised....

Nitro Engines are subject to crash damage and failure just like Lipo's , yes you can replace parts on a Engine but if you have crash damage and you have a Flightpower , they offer 50% replacement...

[flyinfool]

The real bottom line is that this is a hobby and not an investment.
There is zero financial ROI.
The only ROI is fun and fun costs what it costs.

If cost were the driving factor I would be flying nothing but Gassers. Gas is far cheaper per minute than nitro or electric.
Granted the heli is more expensive than a 50 / 600 heli, but that will pay back pretty quick.

Plug into your math 10 oz of fuel runs for 20 minutes and cost is $4 / gal. The only field support equipment required is the gas can and a hand crank fuel pump.
Gas: 1 gal = 128 oz ÷ 10 oz per tank = 12.8 flights per gallon.
12.8 x 20 minutes = 256 min per gallon
$4 gallon ÷ 256 min = $.016 per min

Some people like electric for various reasons and others like me like burning fuel, maybe because I am a mechanical engineer and prefer mechanical things, my brother who is an electrical engineer prefers electric stuff. Go figure.

[mporlier]

try doing a poll on how many people have had to replace or rebuild their Nitro engine cause a crash has damaged it. Cracked cases , sheared off carbs , bad bearings , rings gone bad , bent crank.

You might be supprised....

Nitro Engines are subject to crash damage and failure just like Lipo's , yes you can replace parts on a Engine but if you have crash damage and you have a Flightpower , they offer 50% replacement...

Still only 190$ for a brand new engine. As for flightpower warranty that is news to me. I am happily surprised to see this.

I think I am about to make the jump to nitro...

[mosh1]

Nice spreadsheet. Just a few points:

1. You don't need 4 servos for the electric only 3 as throttle is with the included speed controller.
2. You have 4 batteries for the electric, but no fuel costs for the nitro. 4 batteries can potentially last you a long long time, so figure how much nitro you would spend in that time.
3. Crashing and damaging a lipo so it's unusable is a risk - however flightpower will replace a crashed pack at %50 off.

Still, if cost is your main concern fly nitro. As someone mentioned you're dumping money into a hobby not a mutual fund :) So fly what you like, if the costs are worth it to you. For me - clean no mess, no fuss electric is worth it for me. Going to the field with 4 packs, flying 4 quick flights and going home when you only have an hour free is great.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Don't forget the $80+ painted canopy.I don't think I will ever buy a nitro heli. But if I did the T-Rex600 Nitro would be it. The canopy simply rocks!!!! :glasses2:

[mporlier]

Nice spreadsheet. Just a few points:

1. You don't need 4 servos for the electric only 3 as throttle is with the included speed controller.
2. You have 4 batteries for the electric, but no fuel costs for the nitro. 4 batteries can potentially last you a long long time, so figure how much nitro you would spend in that time.
3. Crashing and damaging a lipo so it's unusable is a risk - however flightpower will replace a crashed pack at %50 off.

Still, if cost is your main concern fly nitro. As someone mentioned you're dumping money into a hobby not a mutual fund :) So fly what you like, if the costs are worth it to you. For me - clean no mess, no fuss electric is worth it for me. Going to the field with 4 packs, flying 4 quick flights and going home when you only have an hour free is great.

My mistake for the servo thank you. A copy paste error!!

As for fuel cost it was answered a higher in the thread.

[roinides]

I believe guys that after all its not about money!

Its what you like!

I love my 600E electric but...

I want to go on Sunday and fly all day. Cant do that even with 5 packs! I must wait and must have power for the charger!

If i get (which i will ) the nitro i will refill and fly all day! A friend of mine in 2 weeks has 20 hours of flight and me in 2 months i have 6 hours!!!

Both of them are wonderful and its finally a personal decision!

The point is to have fun! Nitro or electric! As for money , hey we have all the upgrades , who cares about cost per minute?