Castle Pheonix 85HV setup Videos

[Finless]

The gain is how quickly the gov will respond and make throttle changes. It can in fact cause a tail wag type of condition. I understand there was a new software release made last week.. I have not tried it yet so you might want to go online and upgrade your ESC first.

Bob

[nexus]

The gain is how quickly the gov will respond and make throttle changes. It can in fact cause a tail wag type of condition. I understand there was a new software release made last week.. I have not tried it yet so you might want to go online and upgrade your ESC first.

Bob

Since in my case its due to the gain, so i assume the LED flickering is normal?

I'm always pessimistic about lastest software upgrades till i see other's feedbacks..i'm currently on v1.55, is this version stable?Any known issues i should look out for?

[Finless]

I talked to Clint yesterday and he said they had a new version to help with the gain adjustment and tail. I plan to try it myself. I have had no problems with 1.55 myself. My gov gain is 18 now.

Bob

[nexus]

I talked to Clint yesterday and he said they had a new version to help with the gain adjustment and tail. I plan to try it myself. I have had no problems with 1.55 myself. My gov gain is 18 now.

Bob

Do give us a feedback once you've tried the new software. I'll be waiting. :mrgreen:

Thanks for the advises anyway.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

I don't know why Bob but when I was running a 6s with a 13 tooth pinion I had to crank my gain up to 80 to keep it from wagging. It wouldn't even hover without going up and down until I set the value up high.

Now that i went to a 10s pack I tried lower gains (20 ish) but it felt mushy again wagging and not hovering stable... Put it to 55 and now it feels stable in a hover and the wagging left.

I don't know why mine works better on higher gains... :dontknow It really baffles my mind. :thinking Any ideas?

[Finless]

You on the latest code?
YOu set up your end points and got your head speed at 75% to 85% max?

Throttle response setting?

If you save your file to your PC it can be opened in NOTE PAD... Open it and let me see what your settings are.

bob

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

It seems to work fine this way. I do want to lower my motor start power.

Yes. 1.55
I'm running 70% on my throttle.

Yes they are 100% high throttle & 118% Low throttle ATV

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Monday, May 21, 2007
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: Auto Li-Po (*)
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Reverse
Spool-Up Speed: 4
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Insensitive
Brake Delay: No Delay
Motor Start Power: 44.9375
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 60

[Finless]

Odd... I dont know why either... I assume your running a different motr than I am? I am using the ripper from Ace....
If so it might be that and motor timing?

Bob

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Indeed it is! I use a Z-Power Z50A-800 (800kv)

What kv is the ripper?

[Sandy]

Going by my interpretations of the CC creation instructions, my original settings for 600 and xl motor at 75% required 12T straight for adequate target hs of 2000 and matched that HS in gov mode high. After recent discussions I went to 11T with 80% for target HS of 1850 then advanced gov high mode to 2000 hs.. The elogger shows lower core temps (180s vs 210) and less mAH/min.. Like it...

[Finless]

My ripper is model 2380 and is 770 KV.... Might be the difference.

Either way lith it does not matter what gain you have as long as it is working for you. Different motors are going to be different in settings.

Bob

[nexus]

Anyone tried the v1.56 beta software yet? Flyers in other forums are claiming it improves the throttle pulsating problem and they are able to set high gains too. Haven't tried it myself but would like to see the reviews from you guys here.

[Finless]

Anyone tried the v1.56 beta software yet? Flyers in other forums are claiming it improves the throttle pulsating problem and they are able to set high gains too. Haven't tried it myself but would like to see the reviews from you guys here.


I have not tried it yet but I plan to and YES Castle released this version to help with this problem of wag at higher gov gain settings.

Bob

[Sandy]

yes, v1.56 wags like crazy with the same gain settings.. go lower?

[Finless]

Hmmm well I would say yes, drop the gain until it is gone... BUT be sure the problem is also not in your tail or gyro settings too!

Sandy, what heli is this? gyro? what your current HV gain setting?

Bob

[Sandy]

I have Trex600 and xl motor with HV85 and 611 gyro with gain of 36 .. I have been very pleased with the gov with v1.55. The problem of significant tail twitching and obvious motor surg, started after I loaded v1.56.. Here is the data file that worked well with 1.55 and was not happy with 1.56

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Tuesday, May 29, 2007
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: Auto Li-Po (*)
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Forward (*)
Spool-Up Speed: 8
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Delay: No Delay
Motor Start Power: 39
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 24.2857142857143

Sandy

[Finless]

I did not get a chance to test 1.56 this weekend. I will try it next weekend.

Bob

[Bernie Wolfard]

Do not cut the red wire between the ESC and receiver on any CC HV ESCS. Disabling the red wire only applies to the regular Phoenix ESCS, not the HVS. If you cut the red wire on an HV the ESC will not work. The brown and red wires carry voltage and about 40 mw to power the opto isolators in the ESC.

The latest release of firmware, 1.56' fixes a bug in gov mode. You might have to reset your gov gain with the new software but it is worth it as the governor will work better over a wider range of headspeeds. This means if you are changing headspeed in gov mode you shouldn't have to change gov gain to get the different headspeeds to not tail twitch.

The 75% in 'Heli: Fixed Endpoint' is actually a number from last year. The reason for setting this first is make sure your heli is geared correctly. As Finless said if the gov doesn't have headroom it cannot work correctly. Finless did make a slight mistake in the vid as we recommend getting the headspeed you want in gov mode at the 75% throttle setting in 'Heli: Fixed Endpoints' by gearing accordingly. You would then match this headspeed in gov mode where throttle % doesn't really mean anything. Whatever % you get that headspeed on gov mode is OK. My understanding is that Mr. Finless is going to make this change in the coming vid. The reason 75% is now oldschool is as batteries get better the gov needs less headroom to work correctly. With new GOOD batteries the percentage can be increased to 80% - 85%. The better the batteries, meaning the faster they can discharge, the higher the 'Fixed Endpoint' gearing percentage to get your desired headspeed can be.

We greatly appreciate the effort Mr. Clintstone and Mr. Finless have put into figuring out how our ESCS work in helicopters and then making this information available. :noteworthy At Castle Creations we feel that because helicopters are complex devices the user should be able to set their ESC up to work correctly with their helicopter and set up instead of only working with specific equipment. The pilot should be able to choose their motor and batteries independent of the demands of the ESC. This makes setting up a CC ESC a little more complex but enables it to work with what you want in a helicopter, not what is dictated by a single component in the helicopter. That it took people like Clint and Bob to figure it out is not a problem. That they are so willing to contact us, figure it out then share the info in a way anyone can do a good set up with their stuff is more than great! We thank them for it.

--
Bernie Wolfard

[Finless]

Thanks Bernie!!!!

Really good seeing you guys here supporting users :noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy

I am right at this moment compressing the updated vids I shot this weekend. I think they will correct the current videos by clarifying how to set up the head speed in gov. Anyway the new vids going up tonight should help clear things up (I hope).

Again thanks Bernie for stepping in and helping users... It's AWESOME to see support like this by a manufacturer on a forum! :mrgreen:

Bob

[nexus]

Do not cut the red wire between the ESC and receiver on any CC HV ESCS. Disabling the red wire only applies to the regular Phoenix ESCS, not the HVS. If you cut the red wire on an HV the ESC will not work. The brown and red wires carry voltage and about 40 mw to power the opto isolators in the ESC.

The latest release of firmware, 1.56' fixes a bug in gov mode. You might have to reset your gov gain with the new software but it is worth it as the governor will work better over a wider range of headspeeds. This means if you are changing headspeed in gov mode you shouldn't have to change gov gain to get the different headspeeds to not tail twitch.

The 75% in 'Heli: Fixed Endpoint' is actually a number from last year. The reason for setting this first is make sure your heli is geared correctly. As Finless said if the gov doesn't have headroom it cannot work correctly. Finless did make a slight mistake in the vid as we recommend getting the headspeed you want in gov mode at the 75% throttle setting in 'Heli: Fixed Endpoints' by gearing accordingly. You would then match this headspeed in gov mode where throttle % doesn't really mean anything. Whatever % you get that headspeed on gov mode is OK. My understanding is that Mr. Finless is going to make this change in the coming vid. The reason 75% is now oldschool is as batteries get better the gov needs less headroom to work correctly. With new GOOD batteries the percentage can be increased to 80% - 85%. The better the batteries, meaning the faster they can discharge, the higher the 'Fixed Endpoint' gearing percentage to get your desired headspeed can be.

We greatly appreciate the effort Mr. Clintstone and Mr. Finless have put into figuring out how our ESCS work in helicopters and then making this information available. :noteworthy At Castle Creations we feel that because helicopters are complex devices the user should be able to set their ESC up to work correctly with their helicopter and set up instead of only working with specific equipment. The pilot should be able to choose their motor and batteries independent of the demands of the ESC. This makes setting up a CC ESC a little more complex but enables it to work with what you want in a helicopter, not what is dictated by a single component in the helicopter. That it took people like Clint and Bob to figure it out is not a problem. That they are so willing to contact us, figure it out then share the info in a way anyone can do a good set up with their stuff is more than great! We thank them for it.

--
Bernie Wolfard

Words from the horse's mouth. Glad that the air is cleared now on the 75% throttle thing. :wink:

[Finless]

OK I updated Part 1 and Part 2 and I also added a flight test to show how the gov works... I am NO hot 3D pilot but I think the flight test shows how well this gov works!

Anyway I hope this clears up using the gov mode?

Let me know what you all think.

Bob

[Sandy]

Great job, Bob..

I kindof figured all this out over several months, but your new videos should make quantum leaps in everyones learning curve..

Thanks,
Sandy

[WhirlingBladesOfDeath]

Thanks for the updates. That makes perfect sense to me now. :)

I have an idea on programming your DX7 and the whole throttle hold / throttle cut deal. I forget the exact term (my TX is at home), but can't you program mixes between channels on the DX7? Could you program the mode switch to add throttle?


Mode Throttle Setting Programed Throttle Add Notes
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normal 67% Flat (gov) 0 1860HS, throttle hold = 0%
Idle 1(2) 67% Flat (gov) + 5 1960HS, throttle hold = 5%

In Normal mode, throttle hold would truly set the throttle to 0, but in Idle Up it would set to 5%,keeping the motor slowly turning. Just make sure you practice your autos in Idle Up, and you won't have to worry about soft start.

Both Normal and Idle Up modes would all be at your low gov setting, and you add additional throttle with programming mix to get the increase HS you want for each flight mode.

Hope that makes sense!
Jason

(edited to fix format of table above)

[nexus]

Just to share, heres what i have found out for my setup(z30a-1110kv, cc85hv,6s packs, gy401+9254). I have tried v1.55 and v1.56 both with same gain settings (20) ,however, i find that the v1.56 still gives me the pulsating throttle. The pulsating throttle is not as hard as before, but its becoming more frequent on v1.56. I noticed my tail can't hold as well as compared with v1.55.

Heres how i would sum up the differences - V1.55 compensates more with each change to hs but its frequency is lesser. V1.56 is vice versa, compensates less but gov cuts in more often, resulting in a tail thats not able to hold. Personally i prefer v1.55 with my kind of setup and i feel the gov bugs are not completely eliminated.

*Note that frenqency refers to how often the gov cuts in to compensate for drop in hs.

Appreciate if you guys can share your findings too.

[Sandy]

I have Trex600 and xl motor with HV85 and 611 gyro with gain of 36..

I got a chance to work with v1.56 and found the tail is still twitchy, but it improved the further down I went.. I stopped at 7 (v1.55 was happy at 20) and twitch is slightly noticable.. I added throttle response to 3 without any change..

How low do I go?
Back to v1.55?