Castle Pheonix 85HV setup Videos

[Finless]

Make sure the throttle curve is linear! 0,25,50,75,100

That is too compressed for sure so something aint right.

Bob

[Cityflyer]

Make sure the throttle curve is linear! 0,25,50,75,100

That is too compressed for sure so something aint right.

Bob

yep it's linear for sure, i think i leave it for now and get back on it when the castlelink arrives, i might have screw'd some settings up trying to program it with the stick.

[Cityflyer]

It's solved, just had some wierd throttle settings in the esc, now on fixed th i got 115, 110 travel. Good to go.

[Finless]

:thumbup:

[markg]

i set up my cc85hv as per the videos (both bobs and clints) on my trex 600, using the 600xl motor and 12tooth pinion helical gears.

set my headspeeds to 1700 normal, 1900 idle 1, and 2000 idle 2, which seem to be in line with the video,

but....i now have that tail drifting back and forth; it doesnt change between normal/idle up. i didnt have it using the fixed end point setting on the esc (i did have it with the thrusted tail, after putting on the non thrusted tail it was steady).

so i changed the governor gain; tried 50, 20, and 15. not much difference.
also tried changing the throttle response from medium to low; no change there either.

what to do now? the tail is a mess.

thanks.

mark

[dutch_anykey]

Hi,

Here's my story .. kept it for myself for a while because it sounds to stupid to be true ..but since this forum is all about sharing...here we go

I got a strange thing on my hurricane 550 as well ..It is with a 1100 kv GAUI motor on a 7s A123 with a CC p80 ESC.
When i listen to the motor while in a hover I could clearly hear the RPM changing. I mean the govorner process was really doing it's job. But it caused a really annoying tail kick/wag. It was like to govorner overshot the desired rpm and "cut" the power so for a split second, then it was running "freely" without motor power ..and the next second govorner would apply power again...
It was driving me nuts...I checked motor wiring and connectors but couldn’t find anything...In heli fixed end point everything was running smooth at various HS's

I had the govorner gain very low (3 or something) I varied between lowest and 50..But no matter what setting i kept noticing tail wag and could clearly make up that the govorner process was powering up and powering down the motor. Till i put the gain to max one time..still same result. Next i put it back to 11...problem disappeared like snow in the sun.....

I still dont know what really happened.
It may sound stupid...but somehow it felt like the 0 to 100% setting for govorner gain was not taking it's right value...and changing it once to the max. value and putting it back to low (11) did the trick for me.
When i changed the values earlier i reloaded the settings every time to be sure that the values were accepted...

Another thing i noticed that I hope someone can confirm...Changing the govorner value manually (last setting from the pull down menu)...I can't set every value i want...like if i want to put in 2 or 10 for example it accepts these values. But after re-reading the settings it doesn’t have the value i set, but a value near that one.
(I think i send 10 for govorner gain but after re-read it says 11)

Maurice

[markg]

i went back to 1.55, and it got a LOT better. still some speed change, with resulting tail movement; so i went back to fixed endpoint for now.

put in a call to cc; lets see what they say/suggestions they have.

[dutch_anykey]

Hi Mark,

That was going to be my next step as well. going back to 1.55. But everything is working here right now at various headspeeds :dontknow
It's running smooth and i got slightly more flight time as well
I also dropped an email to CC last friday. I will post the comment from CC if i get it in my mail.

Maurice

[lakespinner2]

Hi dutch, that's very interesting about the increase/reduction to 100% gain. I might have to try that litte test. ;) I have one setup that's being a little stubborn.

It IS normal to set the parameters and upon a 'readback' of the settings to find the numbers have 'adjusted' to slightly different numbers. The granularity of some of the settings is a little coarse. From this thread (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692320&page=3)it sounds like Castle is planning to perhaps rescale the gain settings and reduce the granularity for their next firmware version. I hope they do it soon. :thumbs-up2:

[warpspeed]

I've got a question for you gurus-How do you set up the 85HV in governor mode without a tach? Is it possible? And for that matter, how do you know what headspeed you want?
I'm setting up a Swift 550 with this speedo and according to the manual with my gearing the headspeed will be 1890-is that the headspeed I should target in governor mode?
The owner of my favorite LHS has found a tach that not only reads headspeed but also performs various other functions, and has had several on order but they still haven't arrived-so until mine gets here I'm flying blind.
Assuming gov mode can't be setup without a tach, do you forsee any problems with using standard throttle curves and flying in fixed endpoint mode?

Thanks gents!

[dutch_anykey]

Hi,

Thanks @lakespinner ..one mistery solved :)

@Warpspeed
You need a tach to set up the govorner properly in my opinion. You can estimate it setting up in fixed end point between 75 and 85 throttle percentage...and if it flies o.k. then put it in to govorner and listen to the headspead and set it close to what you hear when in fixed endpoints....But in this way you dont really know what you are setting...get somebody to tach you is the best way.
As for the target headspead...it depends on the motor and gearing. You have to find a combination so that the motor is in it's best power range and also has enough "head" power left to speed up and keep the HS constant for the govorner process. But things are explained in the beginning of Finless's vid.

As for the tach meter.... shoot a vid and show it to Finless here on the forum....he has developped a 6 sence to be able to tell what HS you have by the sound :)

Maurice

[warpspeed]

Thanks Dutch! Kinda thought that might be the case. Guess I'll have to stand out by the highway with a sign reading "Will work for tach, c'mon, help a brutha out."
I'm sure that'll go over well.
Sounds like running it in fixed-endpoint mode won't damage the speedo so I'll play around with it and see what happens-maybe I can at least get it in the ballpark.

[jmb2232]

I seek some expert clarification here, please. I have watched all of the videos and read all of the posts. After going through the excercise, I came up with a value of 52 in governor mode which corresponded to a HS of approximately 1800 rpm (75% throttle in heli fixed endpoint mode) and a value of 61 in governor mode which corresponded to a HS of approximately 1980 rpm (85% throttle in heli fixed endpoint mode). Do these values look reasonable? (These readings are for a TREX600 running an 11T helical pinion with a FP 6S pack; V-Blades; HV85 in governor high mode) If so, I now proceed to set a linear throttle curve in normal mode at a value of 52 straight across and a value of 61 straight across for idle up mode. Is this the correct reasoning here? Thanks.

Mike B.

[Trev]

HI JMB2232,
having read the Castle Creations technical bulletin:

Quote:
If the Heli is set up correctly in Heli Fixed Endpoint Mode (see Finless video) it does not matter what %throttle give you the correct headspeed in governer mode.

The key is getting it right in Heli Fixed Endpoint mode with the gearing for the desired headspeed

Regards

Trev.

[Finless]

I seek some expert clarification here, please. I have watched all of the videos and read all of the posts. After going through the excercise, I came up with a value of 52 in governor mode which corresponded to a HS of approximately 1800 rpm (75% throttle in heli fixed endpoint mode) and a value of 61 in governor mode which corresponded to a HS of approximately 1980 rpm (85% throttle in heli fixed endpoint mode). Do these values look reasonable? (These readings are for a TREX600 running an 11T helical pinion with a FP 6S pack; V-Blades; HV85 in governor high mode) If so, I now proceed to set a linear throttle curve in normal mode at a value of 52 straight across and a value of 61 straight across for idle up mode. Is this the correct reasoning here? Thanks.

Mike B.

Yes this does sound right with 11T helical! If you want more head speed try the 12T helical but remember to go through the setup again to find your HS.

Bob

[jmb2232]

Thanks for the reply, Bob. :noteworthy I forgot to mention that I am running the 600XL motor if that makes any difference. Roger on the 12T helical pinion. I'm going to wait until the weather cools down a bit here before I slap that back on the bird. :wink:

Mike B.

[kdii02]

Hi,

Here's my story .. kept it for myself for a while because it sounds to stupid to be true ..but since this forum is all about sharing...here we go

I got a strange thing on my hurricane 550 as well ..It is with a 1100 kv GAUI motor on a 7s A123 with a CC p80 ESC.
When i listen to the motor while in a hover I could clearly hear the RPM changing. I mean the govorner process was really doing it's job. But it caused a really annoying tail kick/wag. It was like to govorner overshot the desired rpm and "cut" the power so for a split second, then it was running "freely" without motor power ..and the next second govorner would apply power again...
It was driving me nuts...I checked motor wiring and connectors but couldn’t find anything...In heli fixed end point everything was running smooth at various HS's

I had the govorner gain very low (3 or something) I varied between lowest and 50..But no matter what setting i kept noticing tail wag and could clearly make up that the govorner process was powering up and powering down the motor. Till i put the gain to max one time..still same result. Next i put it back to 11...problem disappeared like snow in the sun.....

I still dont know what really happened.
It may sound stupid...but somehow it felt like the 0 to 100% setting for govorner gain was not taking it's right value...and changing it once to the max. value and putting it back to low (11) did the trick for me.
When i changed the values earlier i reloaded the settings every time to be sure that the values were accepted...

Another thing i noticed that I hope someone can confirm...Changing the govorner value manually (last setting from the pull down menu)...I can't set every value i want...like if i want to put in 2 or 10 for example it accepts these values. But after re-reading the settings it doesn’t have the value i set, but a value near that one.
(I think i send 10 for govorner gain but after re-read it says 11)

Maurice



Well I tried this trick today and set the gov gain to Max and then back down to 2. In fact I've tried a few settings on the gain and I still can't get rid of the wag. I'm running a Neu 1515 2.5 D/Y/H, 11T straight on 6s 4900. Logi6100T gyro. Heli Gov High mode. Flat curves setup per the vids with HS around 1980-2K. Any one have any other ideas how to eliminate the gov gain wag issue? My heli never had any tail issues using the stock Align setup. I'm ready to use fixed endpoint mode and go buy a E-Mutigov. I'm pulling my hair out. :) I'm using 1.56 too. Thanks in advance!

[dutch_anykey]

Hi,

Thanks for testing this. This means that i was lucky somehow....So we still dont know what it was in my case either.
Another thing i had recently was a capacitor coming loose from the board (the low ESR filter Cap that stick out of the ESC) After a flight it came falling out of my canopy. I did land normally and didnt notice any problem. Offcourse one elco was still connected and diid its job. Maybe this was related somehow, but then again i didnt have the problem in fixed end points either.
I sent a mail to castle creations.
In short the most likely conclusion is that the capacitors are getting hot and let loose because i'm flying A123 cells. These have a fairly high internal resistance and therefore can produce more ripple and noise that these elco's have to filter out. I soldered the Elco back on myself (all hough they offered me to send it in. But i didnt want to send it in and wait for it to arrive again. I risked the warranty)

Pulling hair.....i know what you feel. Electronic problems. It's a challenge in the beginning but becomes a pain when it takes too long.

My next step would have been flashing the software back to v 1.55. And see if that changes anything.

Maurice

[kdii02]

Thanks Dutch!

Well yea flashing back to 1.55 is my next choice I guess. Again, as we know what works for one heli doesnt always work for the same heli sitting right beside it.. No biggie and Im glad you were able to solve the prob! This is a pretty nasty wag for sure!
I will give 1.55 a try this weekend and let you know. My esc seems very solid in build right now. I don't see any cap issues but you never know. Sometimes it takes a magnifying glass to see problems. Very worst case I'll just use fixed end point mode and skip the gov for now. The heli flies fine besides the wag so I'm confident in throttle and pitch settings. Definitely the ESC to have on this bird regardless! I'll be going through all the gov settings once again before I give up totally just to see. Possibly I'm set way too low at 2? I'm gonna go the opposite way this time. It would be nice to be able to set the gov gain on the fly from your radio huh? :)

Thanks for your suggestion!

[dutch_anykey]

Hi,

Another thing to check is if your motor pinion is fitted tight enough (or any other gear that is locked with grub screws. even in the tail belt pully if you are using a belt in you 600).
I read this also somewhere. In fixed end points a loose wheel/pinion sometimes isn't noticable because is slips a little or just bites at some position and holds there as long as power is suplied. But in Govorner mode it can produce strange things because the power is regulated and that may cause the pinion to slip on the motor shaft. (Or any other gear on a shaft in the heli).

Let us know how it goes

Maurice

[trireme]

OK guys and Gals... as part of my Raptor e620 build I used a Castle Creations HV85. I have to tell you what a GREAT ESC this is IF you set it up right!

Special thanks to Clint Akins for helping me understand how best to get ths video series done and some details about the ESC and how it works!

I hope this helps you all out,
Bob
.......

Let me know if this helps you out :)

Bob

Just used this to finally get the settings on my CC35. Thanks Bob!

[Finless]

Your welcome!

Bob

[kdii02]

Hi,

Another thing to check is if your motor pinion is fitted tight enough (or any other gear that is locked with grub screws. even in the tail belt pully if you are using a belt in you 600).
I read this also somewhere. In fixed end points a loose wheel/pinion sometimes isn't noticable because is slips a little or just bites at some position and holds there as long as power is suplied. But in Govorner mode it can produce strange things because the power is regulated and that may cause the pinion to slip on the motor shaft. (Or any other gear on a shaft in the heli).

Let us know how it goes

Maurice



Thanks! Well I'm gonna re-check the pinion in the morning. I think I'm also just gonna flash back to 1.55 for now and give that a try.

[kdii02]

Hey guys, All fixed.. Went back to 1.55. Set the gov gain to 20 and away she went with no wag. ESC works great and Gov mode is sweet! Loving the added power of the Neu 1515 as well.

Thanks for all your help Dutch, and Bob as always, thanks for the awesome setup vids!!! :)
Agreed this ESC rocks when the setup is right!


Kyle

[jackheli]

I am glad you got to here and are reading my post.

Please DO NOT attempt this setup all but yourself. The result could be
DEADLY!

I almost got killed.

While looking through the tach with the heli spinning on the ground at over 2000 rpm at centre stick, I suddenly see it taking off and ripping past me! It must have come closer than 5 feet- hard to judge looking through the tach! Don't ask me how it happened- I WASN'T LOOKING! Must have bumped the collective stick of something...

In no time at all the heli was at 40 feet from the ground, and I challenge any of you to fly this thing with a completely f********-up throttle curve.

I am thanking G'd constantly that nobody, me inclusive, got hurt or even killed.

PLEASE SEEK THE HELP OF A BUDDY TO TACH THE HELI WHILE YOU KEEP YOUR EYES ON IT AND YOUR FINGERS ON THE STICKS!

I had to post this to keep peace of mind.

Thanks.