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ady
12-14-2011, 02:54 PM
Well I'd just like to say thank to all the posts in this section , I now have fitted a gt5 into my Rex 600e pro , I've read the manual far too many times , I've left her at default settings except for in set up I turned down al and el cos of binding , I've got total gain at 100%
and will work on the seperate gains at the field , I've turned my endpoints down in the handset on al and el , just to slow down the first flight cyclics , my only problem is that when I power up , she puts the tail servo over hard and pops the link , I use a hitec Aurora radio , has anyone any idea where I have gone wrong please , i'll use this thread to record my adjustments from a novice point of view , if anyone wish the thread to close , to stop all the same question being ask , please say

swalko
12-15-2011, 02:09 AM
I mean that someone already mentioned same problem, it may be caused by "incompatibility" between G-T5 and your servo or by wrong settings. Have you set correctly in G-T5 your tail servo pulse width and frequency?

ady
12-15-2011, 03:16 AM
i`m sure i have set up all correctly , but i`ve now downloaded the new manual , which in my opinion is better , i`ve posted this question on another forum and i see some of you on there too , i`ve got some idea`s to try from the forums and i`ll try those tonight :thumbup:

swalko
12-15-2011, 03:22 AM
Report then if you were successful.

ady
12-15-2011, 11:04 AM
well i`ve gone thru it all and tried lots of setting and the ds610 shoots across to one end no matter what i do , i plugged back in my futaba digi servo , and that did NOT , so looks like i`ll be saving up for another tail servo then , one other thing tho , i`ve now set up the collective pitch to 12 +/- using part 14 and have turned done part 15 from 250 to 200 for cyclic reduction , is this correct or have i read the manual too much and fried my brain , thanks ady

ady
12-15-2011, 12:38 PM
more fiddling , i have been working on the swash settings

my settings are
using align 600e pro servo arms , inner hole

part 14 servo travel - complete travel 1,2,3 = 80
part 15 servo limit swashplate a/b (not tail) = 200
part 16 pitch travel = 105 on gt = 12degrees pos n neg on collective

and somehow i now have 10 degrees on cyclic

now with my end points in my transmitter at 100/100
and total gain at 100 , the swash is now not trying to destroy the side of the heli

i`ll now shut up and wait to fly it before i touch anything else

thank you

ady

swalko
12-15-2011, 01:19 PM
:thumbup: My settings is very similar to yours, i have only higher pitch mixer because i use 13.5 degree pitch.

ady
12-15-2011, 02:25 PM
thats good to hear , i think that the harder i thought the worse i made it , i`ve now solved part of my tail problem , i have moved the ball in on the servo horn , it is now on the 12mm hole from centre , i had left it as it was from when i used a 401 futaba , this was a flyber`d rex you see , it still slides over to its full extent , but does not now pop the link :bacon so i`m now ok on that also , may in the future invest in a futaba brushless tail servo , had to extend the a/b on the tail servo set-up , hurry up weekend

ady
12-16-2011, 10:08 AM
after speaking to my LHS about the rubbish manual that is supplied with the gt5 and the fact that some servo`s pulse over on power up , they decided to contact our uk thunder tiger importer , who of course had not heard of any problems , so my LHS linked this forums comments regarding the gt5 and sent the findings to thunder tiger uk , amerang i presume , just thought i`d let you know , ady

JiriK
12-16-2011, 12:44 PM
I had a Emax es9257 tail servo on my miniProtos when I first tried to install GT5.

When power was applied, tail servo drove to it┤s mechanical limit and stay there buzzing until GT5 had started. After GT5 started tail servo centered and programmed limits worked just fine.

I asked TT support about this and they told me there┤s a problem in how some cheap servos handle signal ..or something.
So no cheap tail servos for GT5. With Futaba S9257 it works normal during startup.

Funny that neither miniVbar, microBeast or CGY750 have this problem with cheap tail servos..

I downloaded the new manual and started to install GT5 to my Protos.
Has anyone made a GT5 setup 101 video?

ady
12-16-2011, 04:29 PM
Then thunder tiger should state a selection of usable servo's ? When this heli had a flybar and I went to 30/40c li-po , she would loose the tail , I've now fitted some 104mm tails to try

swalko
12-16-2011, 04:32 PM
Here is statement from Thunder Tiger Europe http://www.thundertiger-europe-forum.com/wbb3/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4147 .

ady
12-17-2011, 06:36 AM
Two flights this morning , in mega freezing conditions , this unit , makes this heli awesome , all I had to do was up the agility on aileron to 127 , there might be a slight tail wag but I'm not sure if it was me shaking , I've now turned up the X-sense on the tail to give a crisper stop , I've also added some EXPO to the tail via the gt5 , talking of tail , I run a 100% flat line throttle , my p is 60 and my I is 50 , I had a quick play with p , that gave a faster wag , and I just messes with the piro , just thought I'd fiddle to start the learning bit , looking thru the instructions I see the tail-D-DB , helps to stop either pulse or wag in hover , but i'll not fiddle with that yet , more tests soon

ady
12-17-2011, 09:10 AM
two more tests done , i`m concentrating on the tail for now as the cyclics are pretty sweet on the current settings , this heli is fast , very fast , and thats with my cheaper packs , right back the tail , there is a definate wag in hover , along with a non-sharp stop , so i wanna stop the wag and get a good stop , first was to up the gain on P from 60 to 65 , this made the wag worse , so back to 60 , then down to 55 , which ment an even worse tail but no wag , so back to 60 on P , i then moved to the D-sense which factory set was 22 up to 30 , wag worsened , so down to 10 . finally i cheated and put up the dead band fiqure from 0 to 50 , i then put P to 70 and had a great couple of mins before i ran outta power , tomorrow i`ll move in the servo arm ball by one hole , i`ll put the dead band to 0 and go again

ady
12-17-2011, 09:12 AM
oh and to see how the stop function affected the heli tail, i went from 0 - 100 and it made no difference in my eyes

ady
12-17-2011, 10:19 AM
can someone tell me how to convert the thunder tiger statement to english please .

on the tail front , i thought earlier about the fact , now she is flybarless , the headspeed is very high , so i`ve put my 95mm tail blades back on , down from the 104mm tails , i have managed a quick garden hover , and with the deadband put to 0 and the d-sens up to 30 , there is little or no wag but its dark n hard to tell , tomorrow can`t get here quick enough

J-S-Q
12-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Here's the TT statement vaguely in English (translated usuig http://translate.google.com/)

"Hello, I post here once the issues, because I already had several inquiries about these things.

There are some customers still have no experience with HV servos (servos 7.4 V). Basically it is so that if you ground the servos with the transmitter controls these are already quite warm after 1-2 minutes. In Sav÷x e.g. values ​​are up to 80 degrees considered "normal." For JR servos through the aluminum housing around 65Grad.

Basically, this behavior is of great heat have probably all HV servos on the market. But that is below the flight again different, as there are better cooled - despite stronger then load.

Then I had a few people who have noticed that when switching on the GT5 is the tail servo to stop. Since then, a customer had meant, when a buddy and another FBL system is not so, he said that GT5 is defective.

It is also true that there were problems with certain software Sav÷x servos. If they get a voltage servos on power without a pulse, say the one that the error is and move to the stop. Sav÷x has solved this problem with the new servos and probably is not that way. If so where one goes Pilote a servo type ... it may be the case when other buddies that the same power (ie with the same name) but with an older software version and it has not then there is.

Should you have such power, then speak to your dealer or distributor. The servos should then be replaced."

J-S-Q
12-17-2011, 10:46 AM
By the way, I also get the tail servo going hard over to one side while the GT5 is initialising (with an Align DS520M, brand new with my TRex 500EFL so one would hope that it has the latest software).

ady
12-18-2011, 06:09 AM
morning all , two more flights in freezing and blizzard conditions , my settings are now these below , i`m trying to find a happy medium between my lower and higher power`d packs

tail settings
P=80
I=70
D-SENSE=0
DB=0
DMA CYLIC=70+
DMA PIT = 80+
STOP = 0

if i up D-SENSE it wags very badly

swash settings
P=75
I=70
ID=100
D-SENS=50
FEED=85
I-LIM=18
HOVER=3

agility
EL=100
AL=127
PIT=105

a/b setting on swash 200 on all

back to the tail , i tried negative value first but i`m sure its positive i need as there is a slight tilt on elevator tic-toc , , more so on aileron tic-tocs , but i will say , my thumbs were numb , so may have been me

Stolla
12-18-2011, 01:53 PM
I have done a lot of testes on this unit and have installd it on 3 machines so far.
All flies very well, First dont just change settings because you can you will find yourself in no mans land very quickly, do one change at a time.
Your P and i values on tail seems very different, usually these should be fairly close, first go back to default, then at 100 percent overall gain fly, if tail wags fast you lower p value till it doesnt wag, then do piros, if it slingshots increase i gain, also if it you lowered p so it stopped wag but tail wipes out increasing i can help. Your deadband is way to high. The shotgun approach wont help you here, go back to default and work with only p and i values till tail is good , then you can work on the stops etc

ady
12-18-2011, 02:12 PM
hi ,sorry for not updating sooner , after dinner i had two more flights , if you look at my settings you`ll see i`ve altered the tail as i did not want to use the dead band part , it still wags slightly but i`m closer than ever , she really flys very well , i`m working now from how the new manual states , P should be 10 more than I and d-sense should be half of P , easy :lol:

swalko
12-18-2011, 03:19 PM
hi ,sorry for not updating sooner , after dinner i had two more flights , if you look at my settings you`ll see i`ve altered the tail as i did not want to use the dead band part , it still wags slightly but i`m closer than ever , she really flys very well , i`m working now from how the new manual states , P should be 10 more than I and d-sense should be half of P , easy :lol:

In manual is described common and in most situations safe settings. This settings is good start point, but every heli is different, you must tweak your settings for best fit to your model. There are models which have higher I than P and too there are models which dont need to do anything with D-Sense. If you want to see how different settings are between different models or between same models with diferent servos, look into AC-3X manual and too look into G-T5 setups attachment.

Do you have slow or fast tail wag? If it is slow tail wag, your P to I ratio is not correct. Try to increase P or to decrease I. Remember, tweak only one parameter at once.

ady
12-18-2011, 04:15 PM
hi , its a 6 inch either way , very fast wag indeed , my headspeed is flatout , which is also very fast , my default d-sense was 22 , my default p was 60 and 50 for i , so as its a fast wag i should look at increasing I ?

ady
12-18-2011, 04:31 PM
well i`ve had a quick look at the ac manual , that actually helps , i`ll leave my deadband at zero and work on P and I only , yep , one at a time :thumbup:

borrowed from the manual
Proportional Gain: Proportional Gain generates a steering signal on the tail servo which is
proportional to the rate error. The higher proportional gain is, the more direct the tail follows
the stick. To setup proportional gain one should increase it until the tail has a high frequency
shaking tendency and the decrease it by one third. The default value is 45. The proportional
gain depends strongly on the individual tail setup. Especially at larger helicopters with low
tail power it can be increased by a factor of two.

Integral Gain: The Integral Gain corresponds to the heading hold gain of a normal gyro. It is
used to produce an angular control of the tail. The higher integral gain is set, the more
constant the tail rate will be. A to high value will result in a bad stopping behavior with a back
drifting tendency. When integral gain is to low, the tail is unstable on heavy pitch inputs and
can not hold the position. The integral factor is almost independent on the tail setup of the
helicopter.

i think i had P and I mixed up in my brain , i have only ever used a futaba 401 gyro in the past , that only has one gain , i thought that was P on the gt5 but it looks to read its actually the I setting

swalko
12-19-2011, 01:32 AM
Every gyro use different algorithms. Experience from type of gyro is not applicable on different gyro type. If you have fast wag you P gain is too high. Decrease P to 40, I to 30 and start again. At the beginning dont mess with other parameters (D-Sense, Deadband, ... ) these must be set to default values ... Deadband = 10, D-Sense = 22 or 25, ...

High P = fast wag
High I = slow wag (incorrect ratio between P and I)

Read this tweaking guide http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=360297 , it may help you.