Prob silly question, buying rx outside the UK

[trillian]

I know this is probably a silly question but I like to be doubly sure about such things.

I am in the UK and just bought a DX7 from a UK shop ('haven't received it yet but prob will next week).

Are the rx units sold around the world exactly the same? If I buy some from the US for example are there any compatibility issues?

I know there are issues in different countries about the power output of the tx units for approval to use the 2.4 ghz band etc. but my assumption would be that the receivers are all the exact same units regardless of where they are shipped.

Thanks,
Trillian

[TRex888]

All the same

[MarkD]

Just make sure it's CE approved to be legal in the UK

[TRex888]

A CE mark means nothing. It is a self declaration and can be made by any Tom, Dick or Harry. There is no longer an approval process in Europe for these types of equipment.

[Coolice]

Hey,

As Mark has said as long as the gear is CE approved I cannot see any reason for there to be any problems. Also 2.5ghz is 2.4ghx where ever you are in the world, hence why it is now so easy to go fly in other countrys with this gear fitted.

I can't really see why Trex888 says it means nothing as if that was the case then products would by now anyway not need to be CE approved for use in the the UK.
It must be a requirement or else it wouldn't be enforced.

There is similar talk at present I think with the introduction of after-market modules for our Tx's, while they are approved with the CE mark for sale are they ok to use in the different transmitters. THis then requires through testing of the modules in all makers transmitters to be given the CE mark for legal use in the UK & Europe.
.

[TRex888]

Long answer. Look up the RTTE directive. Careers are based around the rules and regulations. No such thing as approvals anymore. Under the rules one could (bring on to the market) equipment that fails to meet our European rules completely.

Nothing against DX7. I have been using one for several months now. Just stating the facts.

[Coolice]

Hey,

But then would said manufacturers products cause problems with BMFA insurance?
I seem to remember the BMFA stating that Spread Spektrum equipment, specifically 3rd party plug in modules must be CE approved.

Whether or not it's needed to market a product is debatable, but if it's mentioned as being needed to comply surely we need to check for our own sake?

Here is what I found on the RTTE Directive :

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/rtte/dir99-5.htm#THE%20EUROPEAN

I got bored after a few minutes reading, as long as the equipment is safe and meets any rules or regulations it needs to who cares.

As yet I am still awaiting a fly of a DX7 controlled model, but am looking forward to perhaps doing so soon.
.

[trillian]

I just want to get more rx's as inexpensively as possible. But I don't want to risk either general safety or the BMFA insurance.

[Danal Estes]

So order one, and see if you can tell ANY difference in case, markings, etc. vs one that was obtained in Europe.

[TRex888]

There is no difference. I have Rx stock from Horizon Hobby UK and from GrandRC USA. Same.

[trillian]

Hey there Dan,

I noticed you are flying several different helis on the DX7. Are you using the SR7000 rx in all of them ?

I am still a little hazy on this whole business of small 'parkfliers' only for the SR6000 and 6100 due to the mass possibly creating a 'shadow' so to speak. But they say the 6000 and 6100 are OK for something like a Trex. (or is that caveat only pertaining to the DX6 transmitter ?)

I cannot help but wonder how much difference there could be in the apparent mass (in context of the radio signal we're talking about) between a Trex and a Logo-10 if the rx is mounted for example close to the bottom of the heli with the wires extending below it. The most 'mass' that can ever get between the tx and rx is when the heli is at such an attitude that the part of the body with the Li-Pos is between you and the rx, like in some kind of nose-down attitude coming towards you.

Now, I can certainly see where the difference could come in between, for example, a small park flier plane and a big turbine powered jet but with helis I just can't see where, given the same flying ranges, there could be such a critical difference with anything less than real extremes of size.

[trillian]

There is no difference. I have Rx stock from Horizon Hobby UK and from GrandRC USA. Same.

Thanks. That was my assumption originally. I would think the only possible difference would lie in the power output of the Txs and they would keep the rx units the same if at all possible.

[stevehonn]

I think the only difference between a US supplied AR7000 and a Euro supplied AR7000 would be a white sticker with 'CE' on it :wink:

[trillian]

I think the only difference between a US supplied AR7000 and a Euro supplied AR7000 would be a white sticker with 'CE' on it :wink:

I just got one from a UK shop and there is no 'CE' sticker on it.

[modtron]

For what it's worh.

Helger Flight, now Horizon Hobby UK applied for TYPE APPROVAL for the Spektrum systems some time ago as it is a legal requirement for the UK.
Any items not meeting this standard are illegal for use in the UK / Europe.

The CE mark is normally found when a complete set is purchased.
Why not on seperate items, I don't know.

And in answer to the insurance question.
Yes, it could invalidate your insurance if it was found that any equipment in use was not accepted or approved and was found to have caused a fatal accident or injury.

Just contact the BMFA or the JRC and they will put you staright as to what is accepted or not.

modtron
Oxford UK

[Danal Estes]

Hey there Dan,

I noticed you are flying several different helis on the DX7. Are you using the SR7000 rx in all of them ?

I am still a little hazy on this whole business of small 'parkfliers' only for the SR6000 and 6100 due to the mass possibly creating a 'shadow' so to speak. But they say the 6000 and 6100 are OK for something like a Trex. (or is that caveat only pertaining to the DX6 transmitter ?)

I cannot help but wonder how much difference there could be in the apparent mass (in context of the radio signal we're talking about) between a Trex and a Logo-10 if the rx is mounted for example close to the bottom of the heli with the wires extending below it. The most 'mass' that can ever get between the tx and rx is when the heli is at such an attitude that the part of the body with the Li-Pos is between you and the rx, like in some kind of nose-down attitude coming towards you.

Now, I can certainly see where the difference could come in between, for example, a small park flier plane and a big turbine powered jet but with helis I just can't see where, given the same flying ranges, there could be such a critical difference with anything less than real extremes of size.

AR6000 in Trex 450. Three different trans with this RX. DX6, 6102DX6, and DX7

AR7000 in Trex 600.

AR9000 in Logo 10.

All work fine. No troubles.

Regarding your question of AR6000 or AR6100 in Logo 10... why? The weight difference for a AR7000 is negligible and you can be certain it will always work. A 6 might work great until that day when RF noise was higher and you turn the heli a certain way... better to be certain.

[trillian]

Regarding your question of AR6000 or AR6100 in Logo 10... why? The weight difference for a AR7000 is negligible and you can be certain it will always work. A 6 might work great until that day when RF noise was higher and you turn the heli a certain way... better to be certain.

The reason for the question is twofold; Firstly; If this issue of radio shadowing is really so significant, so close in tolerance that a Trex 450 is OK but a Lepton is not, for example, then I'd say you're probably really risking it even with the 450, because if it is that touchy, that little 'margin for error' then it's not a very solid system. Second; What does Spektrum really mean and at what point is this an issue because I have yet to see heli-specific detailed info from them.

As I said the potential difference in fixed-wing planes is much greater, largely due to the greater range a big plane might fly at. Helicopters of any size will not generally be flown at the distances that large planes can be.

So, it would seem that in terms of helicopters, the only analogy would be when looking at a big Turbine bird vs a little electric because then you could potentially have considerable mass to contend with. From what I have read it is not an issue of RF noise because that type of noise is not in the 2.4ghz band.

I tend to think the potential for missunderstanding comes in with the term 'park flyer' and we all think, well a Trex600 is not a 'park flyer'.

I'll tellya what, I will try and clarify this with Spektrum on the specific issue of helicopters in the size range between the 400/450 and 600 size machines.

Now if the rx's were all the same price then one could easily say why even think about it but when you don't always need 7 channels and the price is almost double then it does warrant getting the real facts.

[TRex888]

it is a legal requirement for the UK.
Any items not meeting this standard are illegal for use in the UK / Europe.

The CE mark is normally found when a complete set is purchased.
Why not on seperate items, I don't know.


All wrong. Not meaning to be rude. This is mis-information.

[TRex888]

The reason for the question is twofold; Firstly; If this issue of radio shadowing is really so significant, so close in tolerance that a Trex 450 is OK but a Lepton is not, for example, then I'd say you're probably really risking it even with the 450, because if it is that touchy, that little 'margin for error' then it's not a very solid system. Second; What does Spektrum really mean and at what point is this an issue because I have yet to see heli-specific detailed info from them.

As I said the potential difference in fixed-wing planes is much greater, largely due to the greater range a big plane might fly at. Helicopters of any size will not generally be flown at the distances that large planes can be.

I have flown the AR6100 in my 70mph EDF jet no problems with range.

I do beleive the AR6100 and AR7000 range is the same because the range test is the same for both. No evidence for this but I'm pretty sure the 2nd receiver is an insurance policy for any polarisation of the Tx signal (have to see antenna patterns for Rx and Tx to know, and also real tests) and shadowing from wires, frames etc.

[MarkD]

it is a legal requirement for the UK.
Any items not meeting this standard are illegal for use in the UK / Europe.

The CE mark is normally found when a complete set is purchased.
Why not on seperate items, I don't know.


All wrong. Not meaning to be rude. This is mis-information.

Taken from dti website

http://www.dti.gov.uk/innovation/strd/cemark/page11646.html

Who enforces - and what would happen if I don't CE mark a product?

Enforcement varies according to the Directives. Some are enforced by local Trading Standards Departments , others by HSE and yet others by the Medical and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency and the Vehicle Certification Agency.

Enforcement procedures/penalties: Except where safety is at risk, the relevant enforcement authority will usually provide you with an opportunity to ensure that your product is correctly CE-marked. If you fail to comply then you will be obliged to take your product off the market, and you may also be liable to a fine and/or imprisonment.

The fines and/or imprisonment implies to me that it's a legal requirement ((in the member states - UK inc) - does it not to you?

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

[trillian]

The fines and/or imprisonment implies to me that it's a legal requirement ((in the member states - UK inc) - does it not to you?

http://www.ce-marking.org/what-is-ce-marking.html

It is a legal requirement for the manufacturer / distributor selling the item in the UK.

After my last post I noticed that my AR7000 does have a 'CE' stamp that is embossed on the body, which I did not notice before because it almost just looks like a mold mark or something.

...I just got off the phone with the product support at Horizon Hobby and on the issue of where you buy it, he said they are exactly the same. An AR7000 will be the exact same unit whether you buy it in London or California or Texas etc.

On the issue of AR7000 vs 6000/6100 on helicopters, he said the 6000 or 6100 should work fine on helicopters larger than the 400/450 (Trex600 for example) as long as the range is fairly close, like within a football field size area. However, he did say that the 7000 is recommended as added insurance against a lockout etc. So there it is from the horse's mouth, so-to-speak.

[TRex888]

Helger Flight, now Horizon Hobby UK applied for TYPE APPROVAL for the Spektrum systems some time ago as it is a legal requirement for the UK.
Any items not meeting this standard are illegal for use in the UK / Europe.

I cut the quote short and people may have mis-read me meaning. I cut the quote short because I do not know what Horizon Hobby did or did not do, but you CANNOT get TYPE APPROVAL in Europe anymore. The closest thing you can get is an opinion from a Notified Body, and even then if they give you a fail you can get another opinion from another Notified Body, better yet you can ignore their opinion altogether.

The rules in Europe now place the responsibility of products completely on the manufacturer. Enforcement is left up to individual countries. In the UK the DTI is basically sh*t. In Germany and France things are tighter.

The CE mark is basically a self declaratiom made by the MANUFACTURER. No authority grants you the CE mark.

Even more ridiculous for RF equipment is that if the product does not meet the European Hamonised Standards you simply mark the product with CE! (the ! is enclosed in a circle).

This knowledge is based on 15 years working in the field of homolgation.

[Mercuriell]

homolgation. :shock: :shock: O guess flying helis keeps you sane :wink: