Current 550 discussions moved from my video topic

[andreasnoren]

thanks backman

its about 99% to buy this heli in the end of this month
wouldn´t the main gear loss all hes teeth if u but in to much power.
heard they doing a z15 for the hurricane... but could be wrong.
then the z20 could be nice maybe?

Andreas

[backman8571]

Andreas

We are even running one heli with the T-Rex 600L motor.

We had to change the gear from a 42T to the 61T and we where still spinning way over 22-2300KV on the main rotor.

We even tried some heavy 550 blades and run it with 2 4200mHA batteries and man that ripped the sky like it was butter, the sounds of the blades where simular as if you had a 90 size.

This heli can be customized for a low cost to be super smove or a rocket.

The cost will be higher if you use the Z30 but still less then for the T-Rex 600

Don't take it wrong the T-Rex 600 is fantastic ship.

I am only talking dollar for dollar.

The only other ship that is in the same range would be swift and me personaly i like the way the hurricane behaves it is super light and even with the stock motor you can do good 3d stunts

Cheers

Per

[Finless]

OK this is frustrating and I will have a video up later.
I planned to use the servos that came with my DX7 but the JR arms that came with the servos wont work. I went to my LHS and the upgrade beefy arms wont really work either. The offset needed for the balls in relation to the output shaft of the servo is STRANGE. I think I found a way to manage it using the JR beefy arms but I am not happy with the work around.

I have a set of Futaba servos on order but this design sure kicks out JR servos as a simple install!!!!

I am wondering why GAUI put the balls ont he bell cranks offset from the center pivot point? I see no reason to have done that.

Anyone else using JR servos? If so, what was your solution for a wheel you can dril custom holes for?

Bob

[Smity777]

One of these won't work?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Jr+servo+wheel&CatId=

[Smity777]

Also Bob; Something I don't understand engineering wise. What in theory would make mounting the ball links behind the centerline of the wheel better? I would think by mounting on the centerline, you would get a stronger torque push pull unit. Also , had Pirahna mounted on the centerline, then his links wouldn't have been too short in his other thread. Take a look at that picture.

Here for quick link reference: http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=31199&start=58

FYI I do know the instructions show to mount the push pull ball links off the center line of the wheel.

One more thing. I am sure if Alan and Danny don't use the Rex600 push pull, this unit can prolly due ok w/o it also :). Just a thought.

[Finless]

Smity,, EXACTLY! I dont know why they put the balls of centerline. Thje reason they want you to do it on the servo arms is becasue the bell cranks are this way too! Why I dont know. I thought about moving the balls on the pitch and aileron bell crank but that wont work as the elevator is also off center and that cant be changed.

BTW re: Piranha... You should be able to move the balls FORWARD of the centerline instead of behind. It should work the same as long as they are off center line the same as the bellcranks.

Bottom line I have some "playing" around to do with this. I want to try:
1) balls on center line to see if there are geometry problems or interactions
2) Balls ahead of centerline

As for those servo wheels I dont think they are large enough in diameter... If they are the ones I looked at in the hobby shop yesterday, they wont work.

Bob

[Smity777]

Finless what size in Diameter would you need to make it work? I will shop around a bit and see what I can find for a JR servo.

[Finless]

Total ball distance is 27mm or 13.5mm from servo output center to each ball.
To have some safety so the balls arent too close to the edge of the wheel, the wheel would need to be 30mm diameter minimum.

Bob

[Smity777]

Just got off the phone with Horizon:

JRPA216 is a 35mm Wheel. I bet your LHS didn't have them.

[Finless]

Shoot OK... will this puts a delay on me getting this thing done.

I will call a JR buddy of mine and see if he has a set.

Bob

[Hunter850]

OK this is frustrating and I will have a video up later.
I planned to use the servos that came with my DX7 but the JR arms that came with the servos wont work. I went to my LHS and the upgrade beefy arms wont really work either. The offset needed for the balls in relation to the output shaft of the servo is STRANGE. I think I found a way to manage it using the JR beefy arms but I am not happy with the work around.

I have a set of Futaba servos on order but this design sure kicks out JR servos as a simple install!!!!

I am wondering why GAUI put the balls ont he bell cranks offset from the center pivot point? I see no reason to have done that.

Anyone else using JR servos? If so, what was your solution for a wheel you can dril custom holes for?

Bob

I ended up buying futaba s3151 servos. Fortunately they were on sale. I also had to buy the larger wheels to get the arms straight.

The setup for ball links does not go as per normal because of their positions on the bell crank are offset to each other making the push pull rods a different length. I did use the larger futaba star wheel on the upper servo and it worked well.

I bought my kit from infinity and it came with JR servos that I could not use as well as a speed controller that had terrible instructions ( missing a lot of info). Emailed them and all they said was it was the same as align? I did find out that the esc was made by soaring eagle. E-mailed them for info and all I got back was the following:

Dear sender

Thanks for your attention for our products.

First of all, we want to know something about you, where is your located? distributor? dealer? or end user you are??

Thanks & Best Regards
Soaring Arrow Electronics Co.,Ltd
www.sae-model.com
Tel: 886 2 2226 3656
Fax: 886 2 2228 8635
e-mail: sales@sae-model.com

That was it , I guess my reply as I was just a flyer and not a retailer or distributor ended up with no reply.

So with that being said I bought another ESC.

All in all with the wrong servos and esc that I replaced I was still happy with the deal.

Biggest problem I had on the build was breaking a lot of the ball link connectors. I had to order a few more to complete the build. Ans yes I use ball link pliers each time, but having to readjust the links a lot ended up breaking them. I am not sure if any of the larger helis (trex 600 have the same size or not so I bit the bullet and ordered the parts from infinity.

Their shipping is reasonable to canada and fast. And now I have also found a Canadian supplier so much better.

Still have not got it in the air yet, weather sucks here. I have spun it up without blades and so far so good.

Kevin

[Finless]

Well, leaving JR servos out is not a good idea. The DX7 is a very popular radio right now. I am going to focus on getting them to work as well as showing a segment on using Futaba servos which will be much easier obviously (since the heli is designed around them).

Bob

[neilnpw]

Bob,

As servos wheels may become an issue for your build video you want to know which servos/manufacturers supply a suitable wheel. I am currently using the Hitec HS635HB servos, not digital but they do come with a very large 45mm Diameter wheel.



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[Finless]

Yep thank you... I have already tested Hitech and Futaba. No issues. JR on the other hand is a problem. I just went to 3 hobby shops and no one has thos 35mm wheels for JR. BUT I have a fix I am working on now :)

Bob

[X30PILOT]

Bob,

I took the easy way out. For simplicity I used the servo wheels that came with the servos on my DX-7.
By using one of the offset holes I easy matched the offset shown on the instructions.
Unfortunately these wheels come up a little short in diameter, but I can tell you the heli does not seem to mind one bit. If you want to see how this works out take a look at the picture in my gallery.

X30

[Smity777]

Guess what Finless, I went by and seen a friend who happen to have 3 JR servo wheels that measure 35mm. They do exist :). PM me if you want them.

[Finless]

X30PILOT, if you look those funky JR arms that look offset, the holes are NOT offset to the center. I have been playing around all night with JR servo arms and such and I can tell you that unless you have the exact offset on the servo arms you will get radical pulling against your servo output shaft bearings.
Try this. Unhook one link from your servo arm to the bell crank and leave the other. Now go full pitch and move the aileron and elevtor about 1/2 to a corner. Now try to see if you can put on the link you removed back on... HOLES DONT EVEN LINE UP!
So you CANT use a straight arm like that or you WILL wear out your servo output shaft bearing FAST!

Smity777, thank you for the offer!!!! But I went and bought some JR heavy duty arms JRPA207 and these can be drilled OK to work. In fact I think they will be better than the wheels as they are super thick and since the screw provided for the balls are self tappers I like the thicker plastic. If I were to use the wheels I would go with screws and nuts to hold the balls on. BUT THANK YOU SMITTY! If you are willing to send me a set of wheels I will also do a vid on setting them up too. Let me know.

NOW! I have hit another problem that Piranha pointed out (thank you Piranha). I am VERY uncomfortable with the amount of threads going into the links when you drill holes in the wheels for the offset like the manual says and I agree MUST be done. Honestly it is just not safe enough for me and I counted 5 threads in ech link with these JR servos (Futaba and Hitech will probably be more). I am going to work with www.subtrim.com my sponsor for a solution but I tried Raptor links and Rocket City universal links and they DO solve this problem as they are longer.

Stay tuned. This is a new kit and we all must work together to make a good build! If I had a way to work directly with Gaui I would be providing this feedback via videos showing the issues but in the mean time I will share my finding with you all and work with my sponsor to resolve them for the future.

Bob

[BlenderPilot]

Great. I can't wait to actually start building, this time, we both have the same helicopter :D

[Finless]

BlenderPilot, until I can get some stuff worked out this will be a longer build and slower output of videos than usual... I want to show good things with this! So you will need some patience until I can work out some things and work with my sponsor too.

I hope you understand but I want to share good info in the end!

Bob

[BlenderPilot]

Sure Bob, take your time. Good things need it.

[Naruto28]

I am wondering why GAUI put the balls ont he bell cranks offset from the center pivot point? I see no reason to have done that.


Hey Bob, I saw a post over on rcg talking about this issue, I thought it was pretty interesting - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658938

Someone posted a great link explaining these types of setups - http://members.cox.net/bdfelice/Ackerman/ackerman.htm

Hope that helps.

[Finless]

Thank you.... THis link you gave explains this the best:
http://members.cox.net/bdfelice/Ackerman/ackerman.htm

I am also a plank flyer and have known about this for a long time. BUT this is NOT the same application as we do not have a moving surface on the same pivot position as a non-moving surface. In fact we have a fully relational rotating disk. There is no reason to implement the Ackerman principle here. If this is why Gaui did it then he messed up the idea. The bell crank and servo wheel are a 1 to 1 relationionship and the control horns are NOT moving on a surface like a rudder... If this was a rudder as shown and the surface moved in relation to a stationary servo I would agree but in fact this is not the case. The bell crank is transitioning movement to the swash through it's arm and is not even the same principle. Again the bellcrank is not moving in relation to the servo wheel and they are 1 to 1... We dont have a moving surface changing the 1 to 1 relationship like the ackerman rudder example!

So in my opinion these bellcranks should be redone to be straight across as it buys you nothing other than making setting up thie heli more difficult. Gaui implemented something in a worng application. I guess he was a plank flyer and thought this was applicable and it is not here.

ANyway thanks for showing this... Now I can understand WHY it was thought this was a good idea... It isnt! It's an implementation in a wrong application!

Bob

[Tom Viper]

Bob,

I made it easy for my self and moved the balls on the Hurricane controll arms.
I talked to Gaui when I visited them last november, and they told me that this would be an option, if you go with normal servoarms.
Take a look, and you see that there is two unused holes. Move the balls, so you get a straight input, then use what ever servo arms you see fit.

I have been using both JR, Futaba and Hitec servos this way, with stock arms.
No binding, no problem. Works great. You could probably find a problem going this route if you calculate on it, but in real life, we have flown it this way for month. :D

I made a Hurricane 550 headspeed calc, that can be used with the diffrent ratio combinations available (14,15,16 pinion and 41,61T main). Will put up a link to the program later.

[X30PILOT]

Bob,

Please take a look at the picture in my gallery. I am not using the funky JR arms. I am using the WHEELS that came with the servos.
On the outside edge of these wheels are numerous holes that allow for offset.
Using these holes I can match the offset on the instructions EXACTLY, but again I come up a little short in diameter. Running your suggested test, everything stays lined up.
When I built my Hurricane I used Raptor links for all the servo to lever connections.

X30

[BlenderPilot]

@ Bob, did you have any problems with the ball link connectors? Do they break easy? I'll buy the ball link sizing tool, and i'm in doubt, will it work with hurricane 550? Standard ball links found on most helicopters?

@ Hunter 850: I see you got the same S3151 as i did. What will you be using on the tail? Which BEC will you use?