Newbie to Electric

[buster1]

Hello, I have been flying Nitro R/C Helis for 15 years, but recently got the bug to go electric. I was hoping the some experienced electric users from the board could help me with some questions.

1. Reliability - Are the batteries up to snuff - Are there problems with fire, etc. during charging, crashes?

2. Has the electric reached the Nitro flying performance? Seems so from the videos I have seen.

3. I have an extreme which was converted from an expert 60,

Is there a conversion kit available? How much will that kit be. When will it be available.

Also, will there be a kit to convert a Tempest 3D to ION??

4. What is the best set up for the ION - aggressive 3D?
I don't want to reinvent the wheel - what are the best,
-Batteries
-Motor
-speed Controller

5. How many sets of batteries do you need to fly 3-4 flights in an afternoon outing at the field. I assume two sets will do it.

6. Do you use a govenor or a speed controller to set up Rotor RPM.

7. Are the 3D guys considering competing with electric, or is that set by rules of competition.

8. Is it more difficult to set up electric or Nitro - regarding pitch curves and speed controller ratios

Thanks - I know many of these items have been discussed on the board, but since I am new, I have not seen all this info.
Sorry to be redundant if so.

Kind Regards,
JH - NY :D

[ChrisS]

Hello JH

In the order you presented them:

1) Lithium polymer batteries are gaining daily in performance and safety. There are still pitfalls that you can fall into but with proper care and attention to detail, you can circumvent a lot of them. Couple that with a source that is willing to stand behind his product if there are issues and the overal rating is very good.

2) Flying electric is different from flying nitro. If you just go out and put the sticks in the corners you will be rewarded with short flight times and overheated components. If however you concentrate on smoothness and proper collective/cyclic swapping, you will be rewarded with the opposite. Overall, time spent flying electric tends to make better pilots because of this. Powerwise, electrics can be setup to perform like 90's, but this kind of power will only last for the first few minutes of the flight after which it will fall off.

3) Yes there is such a kit. It basically uses the tail/boom, head/swash/washout, maingear unit/landing gear and bearing blocks. Everything else in the middle part of the mechanics gets changed. It will work with a Tempest as well as an Extreme. There are two such kits, P/N 124-140 which has no motor or speed control, retails for $599.95. There is also a kit that includes the motor and speed control, it retails for $1209.95. Expect the street prices to be somewhat less than that.

4) For all out power and longevity, the Actro 32-3 heli motor seems to be about the best right now. The Master Hacker 77-O-heli is a great speed control and Thunder power batteries in 5S4P X2 are the batteries to go with. This combination will give a little better than 90 power for the first couple minutes and then taper off to something above 60 power after 8 to 10 minutes. The motor is good at sheding heat and will not get that characteric "soft" feeling later in the flight as many motors do when they heat up.

5) Two sets of batteries are all that is really need, assuming you spend time at the field talking between flights and perhaps even bring other things to fly. Depending on your flying style, each pack will give 8 to 12 minute flights. Recharge time is about an hour, assuming you don't run the batteries all the way down. You will want to have two chargers in order to do this.

6) A few individuals do use GV-1's. but overall, the most common way people run electrics is to set throttle curves for at or nearly at full throttle and then gear for maximum headspeed. Do not rely on the built in governors in speed controls.

7) This is happening and will continue to proliferate as people learn how to best fly the machines. I know of a couple of pilots who are looking to use electrics in FAI competition. The rules allow for electrics now.

8) Easier to setup once you know what to do. Knowing what to do with electrics is just a matter of asking and following directions. There really is no finicky stuff like needle valves or glow plugs that can make day to day flying somewhat cumbersome. Anyone who can master three needle valves, a glow plug, fuel, starter, glow driver and all that goes with all of that can pick up on electrics with little problem.

Pitch curves are simple, linear straight line from -10 to +10, zero in the middle just like your furies. A normal throttle curve tends to look like a short ramp up to a flat line at 85%. Id1 might look like a very shallow V curve with it's ends at 100% and it's middle at 85%. Id2 might look the same but with it's middle at 90%. Hold is a flat line at 0. Start by raising collective to zero and wait for headspeed to spool up. Switch in to Idle-ups as needed and hold when you are ready to do an auto. Never abort an auto and never pump throttle at startup. Always wait for the motor to come to a complete stop before re-energizing the speed control.

That's really about it, the rest is just flying technique and perhaps some habit forming. Pretty simple.

Chris

[Russ McC]

Hi JH,

Looks like Chris has answered your questions pretty well, I will tell you my experience changing from glow to E-Flight. A few years ago I said I would never fly electric because the cost was high and the performance was low, well things have changed. You can get an Ion with motor and controller for $1399, about the same as a fury Extreme with engine and muffler. Two sets of Thunder Power 5S-4P 8000ma batteries are about $1500, this seems high but they last well and if they go bad TP stands behind them well. I have not had any batteries catch fire when charging or in a crash (only one minor crash, no battery damage). So far I would say my battery cost is higher then 30% fuel for the same number of flights. On the other hand I spend moor time flying and forgetting now where the glow machines always seemed to be needing something fixed or would have electronic failures caused from vibration resulting in crashes. The money and time I have saved in repairing vibration related attrition has moor then made up for the added cost of the batteries.

You asked about 3D or Freestyle competition, this venue has few if any rules regarding the machine each pilot chooses to fly; anything goes so long as it’s airworthy. The flights in these competitions are usually limited to about five minuets, your Ion will perform very similar to a 90 fury for this amount of time, in this case it comes down to the pilot skill much moor then the machine he chooses.

Chris touched a bit on flying style, basically you need to be conches of the overall energy management of you machine to get the best results. This is true no mater the machine you choose, those that go out and beat/bang the snot out of a 90 machine generally have lots of problems no matter what they fly and will have even moor trouble with the power system on an Ion. Use the models energy (mass in motion) to the machines advantage rather then working against this energy and your results will be very rewording no matter the model you choose. I choose the Ion because it’s always charged and ready to go with no fuel, no mess and no machine killing vibration and I can still do every thing with it I ever did flying glow. Basically Pilots whose goal it seems to be to test there machines ability to take abuse will not be happy with the Ion, but they won’t be very happy with anything for long before it breaks and becomes a headache. If you strive to learn and continue to fly in a matter that complements the machine you will like the Ion very well :cool:

[ChrisS]

Well put Russ...

Chris

[buster1]

To both Russ and Chris:

Many sincere thanks for taking the time to discuss the pros. and cons. of flying the electric breed. I really appreciate the insight and experience you have shared with the ION heli. (i would obviously go this way, if I bought an electric heli.)
All the info. you shared is enough for me to make my decision.
I have been watching closely with the development of the electric heli - especially what the guys have to say on the board. Seems like a tremendous amount of progress has been made.
I live in a city and it would be so much easier for me to put an ION in the car with radio and extra set of batteries and just go, instead of all the field support required. In addition, the lack of engine vibration seems to go a long way as stated in your threads. I recently just crashed a heli. due to the RX switch going - that was frusterating - then ordered some Fromeco solid state switches.
Again, thanks guys - much apprecited.