CX2 toilet bowl effect?

[robmoney]

I can't remember the main contributor to this, but it's back...

New blades, shafts/flybar straight, blades matched/balanced, aluminum head upper and lower, blades tracking..

Any tips?

Rob

[txflyer]

one of the motors might be going out.

[johnson.mikep]

When I was flying my CX2 in my living room I had this happening. I was trying to get it trimmed out just right. I found the area was too small and I wasn't hovering high enough, I learned about rotor wash wierdness from walls and ground effect so took my stuff outside. It seemed to go away.

I have no idea if this might be your issue as I'm still very new to the hobby, just trying to give back to community where I can.

[Rick Rotorhead]

I can't remember the specifics, but I've seen this before in other threads on the Toilet Bowl business. If I recall, its gonna be something to do with your top ali head parts. Try going back to the stock ones just at the top and I bet it'll be fine......

[heli-dave]

toilet bowl effect caused by binding flybar. Disconect the linkage and blow back and forth on the flybar weights to see if it is binding. If so scrape the joint with a knife to free it. Next rotate the upper blades on their shafts to see if they are free. I have found that with new blades I sometimes have to apply some force in all dirrections as I twist the new blades on their shaft :D s to free them. Snap the linkage back on and blow on each flybar weight and if all is free it should fly smooth.

[Awais]

I remember reading that the aluminum upper head sometimes causes the TBE.

Awais

[flynn]

This was posted as a result of going to the Microheli upper and lower blade grips and blades. It is real. I just went through it. Things spins like water going down the toilet. Nose in and down. Strange phenom. Got better when I went back to original upper rotor blades. Those othe blades are way to flexible at the tips.

Flynn

[tailslid1]

Any reason for a brand new cx2 to be doing this?

I have not crashed yet, the head parts are all new. My trims are maxxed out at full left rudder trim and full up elevator trim and a slight left aileron trim. I can get the unit to hover fairly stable but it does a 5' toiletbowl routine with no input.

Any ideas?

Rick

[58Gemni]

Check to make sure the flybar weights are fully seated outward. Take them off, then put the rubber pieces on and turn them 90 degrees before pulling them outward to seat them. then install the weights.

Check your tracking after that

[58Gemni]

Oh, another thing I found that causes issues. If there is play between the upper blades and the head, it can cause the balance to be off making it toilet bowl. I picket up some 3mm washers of different thickness and install a set on the head prior to installing the blades. You don't want to take all the play away, it needs to move freely like heli-dave mentioned above.

[derekride]

Make sure the swash plate is pressed together. Mine pulled apart just a bit and caused the TBE.

[derekride]

Make sure the swash plate is pressed together. Mine was apart just slightly and caused the TBE.

[tailslid1]

I tried all those things. Still no dice. I spent the afternoon balancing blades, adjusting the 3in1, lubing linkage, deburring, etc etc.

She still wants to toiletbowl in about a 5' circle.

I'm thinking its time for a bunch of upgrades. I'm torn between the www.bladecx2.com (http://www.bladecx2.com) extreme core upgrade or adding the factory aluminum parts and the flybar mods recommended by soloboss at http://193.172.72.35/cx2/

Anyone have personal experience with either "system"?

Thanks.

Rick

[trickybit]

I can say that getting the bladecx2 upgrade is not a path to *less* TBE.

Aluminum swashplate makes your bottom links tighter; not relevant to TBE, but still a pain. On RCGroups you can see a fair number of posting from people who have upgraded their CX2 to be unflyable, and in fairness, some folks who are quite happy.

But considering that while you sort out problems, you crash, and when (not if) you strip a main gear, it's cheap to replace from your LHS, more expensive plus shipping (and a wait) if you have the core upgrade...

For your TBE, keep trying a few more things...

- make doubly sure your link dangles quite freely from the flybar. If you put on a second link, take it off. Flybar link stiffness is probably the #1 cause of TBE. I get different problems from a bent or imbalanced flybar, but that's another popular suspect.

- try removing your flybar weights (both brass weights & rubber caps) entirely. Then make small test flights... I like to fly with them removed, always. It reduces "blade strikes" (really blade-to-flybar impacts), looks ugly, flies great. But the point isn't to tune or hop up your heli, but to see if making major mass changes to the flybar changes the TBE.

Good luck. I hope you get your CX2 cruising for you, but having spent more on upgrades & repairs & replacements on the CX2 than the original bird itself, my advice is:

- get a pile of blades and a comfy screwdriver and a setup to balance the blades
- remove flybar weights to reduce blade strikes
- otherwise leave it stock and learn to fly
- buy a Honeybee FP.

Some upgrades & mods are good, just don't overdo it. Boom and skids from jamie @ boomtownhobbies are great. Use a wire tie to lock your 4-in-1 power cable to the frame somewhere so you don't put stress on it, remove or hack cooling holes into the canopy. I also sewed on velcro once the battery holder broke fatally.

I wish I hadn't gone w/ the extreme core stuff, even though blade hinges can be pretty convenient. Besides the TBE, people have issues getting their lift sometimes, etc.

Fly indoors, get an FP, move on.. :-)
Jim

[tailslid1]

Thanks for the recommendation. I guess I'll put some more time on it. When I have a chance, I'll swing by the LHS where I purchased it and pick their brain too. The owner was flying one when I bought mine.

Its just frustrating that I've learned to hover and a little bit of forward flight, but I can't get it to hover steady in the air. The unit he had in the hobby shop flew very well with very little TBE if any. He took off from the counter and landed back on the counter.

Rick

[carlo_the_wonder_frog]

Don't upgrade to the Microheli heads and blade holders, they are utter crap, they are difficult to setup properly, the blades still break just as easily and they are 3 times the weight. Many people have reported it unflyable with them on. The stock setup is really the best with the E-Flite aluminum upper head and a better liPo than stock. Just upgrading the battery alone can do wonders for the heli.

[tailslid1]

I have a spare SMC lipo, but I really can't tell much difference from it to the stock battery. Maybe I'm not good enough to realize the difference?

Rick

[BryMeister]

Okay, guy... stop.... and take a breath. :lol:

Many of us have been EXACTLY where you are right now and have come through it. You will too. :thumbup:

There has been a lot of good information presented here and it sounds like you did it all, but my best advice is to really think about what could make a coaxial Heli do what it is doing and then focus your efforts on those things.

Another thing you can try to is add MORE weight to the flybar! I have personally found that more weight (up to a point) makes the Heli more stable. Less, vice versa, but you get a more responsive flight, which is what most of the experienced guys like. You can get collar weights for the Blade CP at your LHS. Just slide two of them on at both extreme ends of the flybar (leave the boot and weights for now) and spin her up?

Going back to my point, what would cause the Heli to rotate in a CW circular effect? Chances are, you have just overlooked something because you are very frustrated. Hey, we have ALL been thee, like I said. You're at the right place! :lol:

If worse comes to worse, you take it back to LHS and make him show you what's wrong, or get you a replacement Heli. Sometimes it's nice to have that LHS support when returns are called for. :roll:

[tailslid1]

Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated right now. Its not that the heli is not flyable. When I'm in FF it seems to fly ok, although it does try to fight the forward or sideways motion with the same type of resistance as seen in the TBE. It will fly forward for a bit then try to come to a hover and then go through the same motions of the TBE.

Anyway, I'll keep flying and if I can't figure it out, I'll head over to see Jeff at the LHS and see if they can resolve the issue. Meanwhile, I need to get another charge. What is everyone else using in addition to the stock CX2 charger?

I have 2 packs, and will probably buy 1 or two more, but it would be nice to charge at least 2 at a time.

Thanks!

Rick

[BryMeister]

I used the stock E-Flite chargers for a long time until I started getting into larger packs for my TREX 450 and Typhoon 2. Now, I use a Triton Jr. charger and an Equinox balancer. However, in the field, I would bring them all!

Only thing about that setup is that you need an external DC power supply, i.e. you can't just plug it into the wall like the other.

[balbs]

Make sure that the flybar is level to the upper blade grips. If you're using the e-flite metal hub, the flybar link should be about 20mm end to end (not center of link hole to link hole).

Balbs

[cliobritt]

LHS support whats that?

[balbs]

Local Hobby Shop support.

Balbs

[cliobritt]

Lovely, thanks.

[redrsv]

All CX2 owners have been through this.
For me, it was ALWAYS the flybar.
At one point I had 3 of these helis. the stock brand new one (never been smacked or modified with metal) ALWAYS flew the best.
The one I still have flys great, has been wrecked, stuck in trees and keeps going. I put a CP servo on the foward and back side and this helps remarkably well with foward flight.
Best thing to do is move on to a BELT drivin mico. Stay away from cp pros unless you want to install a new tail motor every 3 flights
Keep going, this dose get easyer!
Cheers,
Steve