View Full Version : New Single Stage Ion-x - loving it!
Stan C
10-07-2007, 08:43 AM
Tom, do you have any pics of your SS Ion?
Stan
WillJames
10-07-2007, 09:45 AM
I agree with Tom. It would be extremely hard to make a Razor into an Ion-X. My SS Ion-X was by far my favorite heli I have ever owned. Least maintenance and most flights on any heli I have ever had.
GO SS Ion-X!!
cgbole
10-07-2007, 10:34 AM
Stan i found some old pics...
Stan i found some old pics...
Thanks Chuck, yes that's the good old SS Actro 32-3 setup. Too bad that MA is no longer selling/supporting replacement parts for the SS bits. Now that the Ion-x2 belts are out (and Chris has left), they are no longer supplying double-wide secondary gears for the 2-staged Ion-x's either. Pretty poor customer service imop. You would expect a lot better from MA.
Dale, the stretched Razor should still be pretty doable. I think that MA have had a few prototypes flying around already. They probably have not taken this any further, to protect the Ion-x2 market, but I'm just guessing. Also, I'm not sure if the razor grips can use 5mm bolts. I think that they have 4mm holes. With under 2000 hs 4mm bolts on 690mm blades will probably do, or maybe you could have these grips properly drilled out to 5mm.
Cheers,
Tom C
cgbole
10-07-2007, 05:58 PM
as far as a belt goes... you can get one from sdpi https://sdp-si.com/eStore/ i'll look for the part number i used on the stretched xero g
it was long enough that i used a vigor boom and cut it down..
Stan C
10-07-2007, 08:57 PM
Thanks Chuck, now I see what the parts Tom was referring to from Rick's was for.
Stan
Stan,
Yup, that's all that is needed to convert the double stage to single stage, except an actro 32-3 of course. The picture from Rick's shows a fan on the shaft but this is no longer included since at 10:1 ratio (100t main/10t pinion, included) the actro barely gets warm.
I had another couple of flights today with the Jazz 55-10-32 (now with a heatsink installed), gov'd to 1850 hs. The heli flew great and everything was just warm (~body temp). I'm only running +/-10deg pitch right now just to monitor things a bit. I'll probably bump it up to +/- 11deg next flight. The 690 V-blades don't really need any more than that anyway imop.
Cheers,
Tom C
I tried a few more runs today and have come to the conclusion that my old hacker 77 heli esc with a 100% flatline throttle curve works best for me with my ss 10:1 ratio actro 32-3 10s setup.
The Jazz 55-10-32 worked ok but when I started to add more pitch (up to my normal 11 deg), the gov just could not keep up. I tried a number of diff hs's and timing settings, but this did not make any diff.
I think it must be a kw power limit.
Imop, the Jazz 55-10-32 esc is probably is better suited to a 50 sized heli or a really light 90 sized one.
I'm going to miss those nice, smooth 12 second spool-ups though!
Cheers,
Tom C
Back to the good old hacker 77-heli esc today, with simple 100% flatline idle-up throttle curves. Except for the too slow (but not jerky) 40 sec spool-up, it all works great. On 2x5s1p Evo 20-25 3700's it is ballistic (5 min runtime). On 2x5s3p 6000 TP Prolites, it's still very lively (7.5 min runtime). I'm running +/- 11 deg pitch and 7 deg cyclic with 690 V-blade mains and 105 V-blades on the tail.
Good low component temps and very little 100t main gear wear.
I'm still thinking about taking this heli to 15s with a PowerJazz esc and Actro 32-4 max motor. But, right now, it's going so fine I hate to change anything!
If I were to try a flybar-less system, I think that this would be the Ion-x I'd try it with. The only question is, what system: Mikado, CSM, or Robbe?
In any case, right now it's still the overall best heli in my fleet!
Cheers,
Tom C
cgbole
10-14-2007, 03:53 PM
get a aerospire e-multigov and put on it...
http://www.aerospire.com/emultigov.html
chuck
get a aerospire e-multigov and put on it...
http://www.aerospire.com/emultigov.html
chuck
Thanks Chuck,
I've looked at these and I'm tempted to try one. My only concern is that I do not think that my hacker esc would be very happy running under partial throttle settings. This esc really need to operate with 100% flatline throttle curves to stay cool.
Might be an option for my Jazz escs though. I'll look into it a bit further.
Cheers,
Tom C
THX1138
10-23-2007, 01:11 PM
Is any one else having this problem?
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t382158p1/
Lou
Is any one else having this problem?
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t382158p1/
Lou
Lou,
Your slight tail kick problem while going through zero pitch might be CC HV110 esc related. Also, many escs need a little time to settle into gov mode, so let the heli spoolup at zero pitch and give it ~10 seconds to stablise it's hs. Does this only happen during startup or does it do it a bit during the flight?
I had similar exp with and hv85 and hv110 escs. One only kicked (spoolup and during flight) in fixed mode, the other in gov mode. Try increasing your hs slightly to 1850. I found higher hs's kicked a bit less. You also might try increasing the gyro gain up a few %.
I would not worry too much about a small zero pitch kick. If it really bugs you, do what I and others have done and buy a powerjazz.
Glad you're liking your 10s Single-Staged Ion-x. What's not to like!
Cheers,
Tom C
Just a quick 10s SS update Mates;
My 10s SS Ion-x continues to fly great and has been trouble-free for well over 100 flights now. I have gotten a few E-mails from guys who have had motor shaft extension failures (between the motor and 10t pinion).
In one case this was happening every ~100 flights and he took the assembly to a machinist to inspect and make recommendations. The machinist recommended better quality upper bearing blocks and bearings. Also he redesigned the motor shaft extension to get rid of the 4mm setscrew that holds all this together. Looks like the cost for all this is going to be ~$200 but it would be worth it imop if it's something that is going last for a very long time. He has asked the machinist to keep a record of the specs and I've asked him to keep us posted to see how this all pans out.
One interesting thing is that all of these failures have happened with guys running their escs in Govenor mode (CC HV85's, CC HV110's and Jeti Spins). No one using a Hacker 77 heli esc, or any other esc in non-gov mode, with 100% Idle-up flatline throttle curves, has reported any failures.
It has seemed to me for a long time that gov mode can be a little harder on gears. I think it has to do with the very fast response of the gov, esp if your collective management is not the best, or you like to do a bit of pitch-pumping to show off in front of your nitro mates.
I noticed this on my Trex600 when I recently installed a Jazz 55 10-32 esc and ran it in gov mode. The main gear wear is much higher, to the pont that I think i will re-install my Hacker 77 heli esc and run it in non-gov mode again.
In fixed throttle (non-gov mode) your batteries are basically your govenor and their response may be a little slower/gentler on gears and geartrains. Not really sure, just a personal observation.
Cheers,
Tom C
G'day Mates,
Man time flies, and my good old 10s SS (10:1 ratio) Ion-x continues to go great, even better with a few changes I recently made.
While I was (and still am, 2.5 months later) waiting for my 15s Neu 1521/2y motor to come back from the Neu repair shop (bearings failed) I decided to move the PowerJazz esc over to my 10s SS Ion-x. At 84% gov settings I get a nice constant, no bogging, 1850 rpm headspeed and the smoothest 12 second spool-up on the planet. I'm also getting almost another minute runtime as well. I don't think I'll ever be able to put the old Hacker esc back this heli again!
Another thing I did was stiffen up the Actro motor mount by doubling up the Graphite lower plate (MA124-24, ~$21 at Rick's)) with another plate below it (I had one in stock from a barebones Ion-x I bought cheap for spares). This was a very simple mod that only required 2-3mm longer M3 bolts for the front landing gear (2x) and the graphite motor mount plate (x4). I also added a 4x M3 bolts/locknuts to the remaining holes on the lower plates. This simple mod has really stiffened things up a lot. Before, I could wiggle the motor around a bit with a bit of thumb pressure. Now, it's rock steady and I cannot physically move it around at all. In flight, the heli is noticably smoother and quieter, esp. during power/collective transitions. It seems to hold it's track in forward flips a lot better as well. Time will tell whether this mod will extend the life of the SS pinion shaft and 100t main gear, but I think it will. If it all continues to go well I might replace the Actro 32-3 with a 32-4 and try it on15s!
By the way I got this idea based on Darren's excellent thread that described a much more solid Actro motor mounting plate;
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=52061
That's the great thing about this forum. You get a lot of good ideas from guys who are willing to try something different. Thanks Darren.
Best cheers,
TomC
Well I finally bit the bullet and took my single-staged (SS) Ion-x to 15s. I bought a new Actro max 32-4, 415kv (from FX aeromodels) a few months ago when I thought my 1521/2y/f/h 780kv motor would never get back from the Neu repair shop. Of course, I got it back within a week of getting the Actro!
I bought another PowerJazz esc from Esprit models (my wife/accountant is not happy, but at least Bobby's accountant is!) and installed it yesterday. I had been waiting for the new MA 111t maingears (Bandit 50 ones) but after getting the usual MA 'next month' story for the last 3 months I decided to just try it on my 100t/10t = 10:1 ratio set-up.
Fired it up today and man it flew great. 100% gov gave me 2100 rpm headspeed and I got my preferred 1900 HS at 73% gov. Tried a few mutiple very sloppy flips and could not manage to bog it down. It just continued to whip through them.
This single-stage (SS) is a bit quieter than my Neu double-staged (DS). The power at a gov'd HS of 1900 feels about the same although the Neu seems to have a little more pop. The SS is ~200g lighter, 4.8kg all up flying weight.
Once I get my Eagletree monitor replaced I'll post some comparisons. The new V3 70volt Eagletree does not like to be plugged into 15s, I assure you. They are making some mods to allow for the large amp influx.
When I started this 15s experiment I was hoping that one of these set-ups would be a lot better than the other so I could just stick with it. Seems I've got 2 great 15s heli's!
Cheers,
TomC
666yeti666
08-13-2008, 10:16 AM
Hi Tom
I've just read your postings with great pleasance.
I recently could get a hold on a used ion-x2 for a very good price and expecting to receive it soon. Because it will not go airborne untill the season of next year, I've got plenty of time to find out for the electronics.
It's going to fly on 12s and initially with flybar.
For the motor I'm thinking of a scorpion
ESC , well powerjazz is the best but also quite heavy. So maybe also a scorpion.
Gyro would be a spartan
Servo's ... no idea yet.
Receiver battery, 2s lipo with regulator for 5, 5.5 and 6V
Any comments,hints, tips for electronics are welcome !
thanks
sebastien
the netherlands
europe
Sebastien,
Sounds like you have a bit of time to think things over. That's good because things can change quickly in electrics. Newer, better, cheaper motors, escs, batteries, and electronics, mainly from China, seem to be the norm these days.
I'm pretty happy with my Actro motors (32-3 on 10-12s and 32-4 on 15s) and my PowerJazz esc. My new Outrage battery packs are better and cheaper than my good old FP Evo25's. I don't do much fast backward flight so my good old Fut 401/9254 gyro works fine. I use an Align 6amp 5.8v regulator with a 5.1v stepdown on the tail servo, powered by a FP Evolite 2s1p 2100 pack. Cyclic servos are tried and proven Fut 9252's. I'm using 690 V-blades and 105m V-blades on the tail.
I guess my main point is that all this works well for me and all are well proven components. New motors, like the Scorpion and new gyros like the Spartan are definitely worth looking at but it might be a good idea to sit back and see how they both perform in the longer term. Hopefully, they will both pan out well.
Best of luck equipping your new Ion-x2. I suggest you put off any major purchases as long as you can rather than buying any so-called bargins earlier than you need them.
Cheers,
TomC
666yeti666
01-05-2009, 05:13 AM
Hi Tom,
it was quite some time ago, but in the meantime I finished rebuilding the ion-x2 and put all new bearings in it.
Also I almost finished building all electronics in it and hope to fly her within some weeks now.
The set-up looks as follows :
CY710 blades
JR DS8717 on the swash
JR DS8900G on the tail
DS760 Spartan
kontronik power jazz
scorpion hk4035-560
12s SLS 4200lipo
turnigy 8A BEC + 2S 2100 SLS lipo
JR RS10-DS spcm receiver
(28T pinion, 38T 2nd gear)
Esitmated all up weight ~ 4.8 .. 5kg
Do you have any more tips for me before the maiden takes place ?
thanks
sebastien
ps. how did the new eagletree logger hold up ?
Sebastien,
Except for your PowerJazz esc, I have to be honest and say I don't have any experience with your other components. They sound ok though.
Since you did not mention your main gear and pinion I don't know what your overall gear ratio is so I cannot comment. Hopefully your overall ratio is something like 11-12:1
The new version of Eagletree seems to be holding up on 15s ok. I still do not trust it to hook up to 15s directly and use a spark arrestor.
Good luck with your maiden!
Cheers,
TomC