New Single Stage Ion-x - loving it!

[TomC]

G'day mates,

I just picked up a used (4 flights old!) single stage Ion-x last week and maidened it today. It's the typical Actro 32-3, Hacker 77-heli esc, and 10:1 ratio (100t main, 10t pinion). It also has the stratus flybar carrier and the Xcell heavy duty dampeners.

All I can say after 4x 5 min flights today is WOW! Motor was cool to touch and esc and batteries were 110 deg f. The hs was ~100 rom higher than my 2 stage Neu setup so this accounts for some of the extra punch, but the cyclic response was a lot better, maybe due to the stratus carrier and harder dampeners.

I have not checked the battery recharge but I suspect that it's drawing a few amps more so I will lose ~0.5-1 min runtime, but who cares, this is fun!

The single stage is a lot quieter and seems to spool up a little smoother.

I'll get some wattsup meter readings this weekend and post them. In the meantime, man, I'm in pretty rapped with this heli!

Cheers,
Tom C

[bathmagic]

is that Danes old machine ?

[TomC]

is that Danes old machine ?

Yes t was Dane's, Mr 3D's machine. Great guy and a great flyer. Too bad since he spent a lot of time and effort getting it built, esp trying to get the single stage gear and 100t main then found out that after only 4 flights, he liked the 7 min of hard 3D on his Razor better than the 4 min on the Ion (all on 2x5s1p 3700 evo20's) and did not really want to go the next step which was 2x6s1p 5000 evo25's and belt drives ala Bobby Watts's Ion-x2.

He sure did a great build job, as you would expect from him and I should get about 50% more runtime on my wimpy +/-10-11 deg pitch versus his 14-15 deg.

You probably already know from archeli threads that I got this heli at a real steal. Heli, new stratus flybar carrier, v-blades, actro 32-3, 77-heli esc, primed canopy, and all the unused secondary gear for $A1,000 (~$US800). Danes is like me, when I want to offload something, you do it at a price that wil move it ASAP.

I feel very lucky and privileged to get this heli and I hope one day to be able to fly (and build) 1/2 as good as Dane!

Man, I like these Razors more and more all the time. A week before, I got 2x5s1p 3700 evo20 packs with 4 cycles for ~50% off new price because a a guy got a glitch on his Razor and totaled it plus destroyed one of his TP 3850 5s1p packs. He decided that electrics were not for him and went out and bought a new Stratus. He also gave me the undamaged TP pack for free to use in my 5s Swift and E-planks. Great guy eh.

If good things comes in 3's, I better buy a lottery ticket tomorrow!

Best cheers,
Tom C

[WillJames]

That SS setup in the Ion-X is a real pleaser. Glad to hear you are LOVING it Tom!!

It is so easy and so reliable and so cheap. Many less parts to deal with.\

You go Tom!! :smokin: :lolol

[TomC]

You're spot on Will. Also weighs about 1/2 less as well. Thanks for not telling me "I told you so"!

Cheers,
Tom C

[WillJames]

My SS Ion as you know had over 400+ flights of hammering by Bobby Watts, Bert Kammerer, Clint, HC, Matt Botos, Charles Rosario, Eric Larson (MIA), Marcus Kim, Malorie Zastrow, and Others, and my own version of trying to fly smooth. Only maint was a tail strike and gear replacement and lubing the auto hub. That is it! I was running the O-Ring Dampeners the whole time. I also installed the Stratus style FlyBar carrier at about 125 flights.

I have never had a better flying and low maintenance machine and I probably never will. Nothing wrong with that machine at all, it is AWESOME.

Tom... Enjoy man!! The Razor flys good, but not like an Ion-X.

[TomC]

Will,

How's the wear on the 100t main gear? How many flights can I expect out of it? Many thanks.

Cheers,
Tom C

[bob00]

Hi Tom,

The lightweight single stage Actro Ion has become one of my favorite helis - the low weight plus the power available from today's batteries make it possible to do some really cool stuff - been flying mine a LOT lately.

I've been running the 100T gear since last year - can't say how many flights but I'm guessing 100+ - no sign of the gear giving up any time soon. I'd bought a spare gear but it doesn't seem like I'll need it any time soon.

I'd planned to convert this heli to an X2 but it's been so reliable and so much fun to fly (esp. after this week :) ) that I'll probably apply the X2 conversion to an Extreme instead.

Glad you're enjoying yours.

Cheers,
- Rob
Team FlightPower
TeamBob00

[r2160]

Hey Tom

Who wrote the razor off?

Glenn

[TomC]

Hey Tom

Who wrote the razor off?

Glenn

Paul L. (pm me for his full last name).

Rob, good news on the 100t main gear wear. Lots better than the 20-30 flights most of us get with 48-50t secondary's!

Cheers,
Tom C

[WillJames]

Over 300 of those flights were on the 100T main gear and it was still going strong when I did the belt conversion.

[TomC]

Over 300 of those flights were on the 100T main gear and it was still going strong when I did the belt conversion.

That's even better news Will, thanks. I guess there are few advantages to go with a belt setup if you are happy with the 10:1 SS gearing and 10s?

I'll probably look at converting my 2 stage Ion to 12s and belts later this year when the MA mods come out.

Cheers,
Tom C

[bob00]

Rob, good news on the 100t main gear wear. Lots better than the 20-30 flights most of us get with 48-50t secondary's!

...hmmm my magic 50T is still going strong well past the 60 flight mark on 11S w/ the 1521 not counting all the 10S time on it from last year. Blew the crown gear a couple weeks back while working on a new move which involves rapidly accelerating the tail clockwise w/ collective punch - abruptly stopping it (hit the brakes - bam - dead stop) - then rapidly accelerating it (boom) with opposite collective. Crown gears do not like this :mrgreen: . I really expected the secondary to have let go by now but it hasn't.

Gotta figure out what magic secret sauce was used when my 50T was built...

- Rob
Team FlightPower
TeamBob00

[WillJames]

Yes Tom. IMHO, if 10:1 and 10s is good for you, and as you know the newer cells are AWESOME, I too would stick with the SS setup. With the 32-3, that is probably all you need on 10s.

Only reason to go with teh X2 IMHO is to get the CG up and if you want to run 12s, or if you want to run 5s1p 4900 or 5000 that won't fit in the regular canopy on the standard Ion-X. Or if tyou need to change gearing for running any particular ESC on GOV mode.

The SS 10:1 Ion-X is the king of the hill in reliability and performance overall. It is a machine you can Fly, FlY, FLY, FLY, let your friends fly, and enjoy to the fullest.

[MrMel]

Im running 12s1p 5000 on 100/10 gearing, powerjazz governor at 58%
PowerJazz works like a big regulator, however, giving power when needed.

Batteries fit fine with some slight mods.
(First of all, mount them sideways, they are thinner there, then shorten the distances between batterymount and frame), finally take slightly longer distances for the back canopy holder.

Its insane power.
2050 RPM and virtually no bogging, 6-7 min flighttimes.

[TomC]

Will,

No doubt about it, that 10s SS rocks! Think I'll be flying and flying this for a long while now. I ordered another 100t main but it does not sound like I'm going to need it. Also, will try doubling up my 5s1p 3700 Evo20 packs to get 10s2p 7400. Should give me 8-9 min runtime. I have done this in the past with my double staged Neu but found that the Neu motor got a little hot. The Actro seems to run stone cold!

Mel,

Good to hear about the PowerJazz being able to regulate HV setups. Do you think that it could handle a ~2000 hs on 15s (3x5s1p 3700 Evo20's)? Total energy is close to your 12s 5000's (12x5=60 versus 15x3.7=55.5) and weigh a little less so runtimes and performance should be about the same. If so this would probably be a better performing setup than 10s 7400 mah. Thanks Mel.

Best cheers,
Tom C

[MrMel]

Tom,
Ive tried 10s2p 7400, its heavy, but works, good for trainer, you will see 9 minutes of good 3D flight.
I have no doubt Jazz can handle it, its an amazing controller.
I smashed my fan on mine, still it dont even get warm.
My "Lipo-bunker" consist of 10s and 6s, thats why I run 12s, otherwise I would hav e done like you and tried 15s.

[TomC]

Thanks Mel, I just might have to give that PowerJazz a go. I'll give the 10s 7400 a go today and see how I like it.

Cheers,
Tom C

[TomC]

Just a quick update on my ss Ion-x, after ~ 80 flights.

I tried doubling up my 3700 packs to 10s 7400 and did get a little extra early pop but overall the performance was a litle lower (due to the weight). For the extra 3 min runtime I did not think that the pain in hooking these up was worth it.

I've settled on a 5 deg motor timing on the Actro. I do get a little extra pop at 8 deg but I think that 5 deg is a good compromise on duration and esc temps.

So far the 100t main gear wear is minimal. I think a lot of this has to do with the actro motor shaft being supported by frame mounted bearings above the pinion plus the fact that the motor is secured to the motor plate as well as the bottom motor plate so you have, in fact, a 3 bearing support system. Too bad it's all 5mm shafting, a 6mm would probably be even better. In any case, I think that its a better setup than the new Ion-x2 where the actro motor is only supported by a motor plate (albeit thicker) and has a lot of stress from a tight belt drive.

At this time, I'm very happy with this setup. I'd like to try some evo25 5000 packs for a bit more pop and duration but I would need to find a canopy that would allow these to fit. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Cheers,

Tom C

[Pyrock]

Where does one get a single stage conversion for the Ion-X (V1)?

[Pyrock]

Oh, and how much $ are they?

[TomC]

Pyrock,

You can get them at Rick's. See;

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=MA124-110

The price is $158. I bought an extra one for spares. It comes with everything you need, including a 100t main gear and 10t pinion. Also, the picture shows a motor fan but this is no longer included since the Actro 32-3 motor on 10s barely gets warm anyway.

Motor-wise (before you ask!) I'd stick with a 32-3 if you are going to do this conversion. Other outrunners might be a bit harder to use/fit.

Once I get my current 15s DS Ion-x w/ neu 1521/2y motor sorted out I might try 15s on the SS with a 32-4 motor.

By the way, so far my 10s SS 10:1 Actro 32-3 Ion is still my favorite, no worries heli.

Cheers,
Tom C

[TomC]

G'day mates,

Although I have been spending most of my time mucking around with my 15s Ion-x, I have not forgotten my still favorite, 10s SS, 10:1 ratio, actro 32-3, Ion-x.

I've been using this heli with a Hacker 77-heli esc with a flat-line 100% idle-up throttle curve. The initial zero pitch hs has been ~ 1950-2000, depending on the packs I've used.

This heli, with 2x5s Evo20 3700 packs only weighs 9.9 lb and the performance is fantastic. The only problem is that runtimes are only 5 min max with 2x5s Evo20 3700 packs.

I have a couple of TP Prolites, 5s 6000 10-12c packs and these work pretty well. I have used them for up to 7 min of gentle sport flying, but even then they get a bit hot (~130 deg f).

Today, I tried a Jazz 55-10--32 esc and gov'd the hs to 1850 rpm. I cut the heatshrink to expose the heatsink in order to cool the esc a bit, With the prolites, the performance was very good at 1850, and after 5 min the batteries were actually cool to touch. The esc was a bit warm (125 deg f) but the hacker was about the same anyway. The packs only put back ~ 2000 mahrs so it seems that 9-10 min flights are possble with these packs.

I'll mount a bigger esc heatsink and maybe use a pc fan to make sure that the esc does not get too hot, on longer runtimes.

Man, this esc seems to be under-rated for 10s 90 sized heli's imop.

Cheers,
Tom C

[bathmagic]

Tom, i am wanting to go mainly electric machines
i have the razor as you know but really would like the 90 size machine that will have about 1950 -2000 on the head.
Will my NEU 15152y be suitable for this at all with the use of my FP 5s 3700mah packs for 4.5-5 minutes of good old stick banging average 3D pilot ?
I have upped the gearing from the std ratio MA recomend for this motor in the razor from 13tooth to a 16 tooth, which is too many teeth, glen has me a 14 and a 15 tooth on there way.
Temps after a good flight of just under or over 3.5 minutes i put back 1900-2100 MAH

Temps...

Motor 69-70 deg C at the base of the motor and 67-69 deg C at the top, I have done a new canopy with larger cut outs for more air flow over both that and the packs, yet to try this.

Speedy 43 deg C

Packs 45-48 i take them out as soon as landing and pull them out and seperate the pair and take the temp ( figureing the hottest bit is the middle)

I would also like to use my castle creations speedy 85HV, is this a little small ?

The power this NEU has in the razor is great ! pushing 620 SAB blades, im getting 3.5-4 minutes of 2400-2450 HS, balistic flights, so i am thinking will a 690-710 bladed machine with less HS but more disc be the way to go ?

how much more does the Ionx weigh over the razor ?

I have been hasseling Glenn for a longer boom and belt and slip in a stratus fly bar, BAM a 90 size machine , whats your thoughts of that?

Am i better of with the shaft drive machine ?

thanks in advance

Dale

[TomC]

Tom, i am wanting to go mainly electric machines
i have the razor as you know but really would like the 90 size machine that will have about 1950 -2000 on the head.
Will my NEU 15152y be suitable for this at all with the use of my FP 5s 3700mah packs for 4.5-5 minutes of good old stick banging average 3D pilot ?
I have upped the gearing from the std ratio MA recomend for this motor in the razor from 13tooth to a 16 tooth, which is too many teeth, glen has me a 14 and a 15 tooth on there way.
Temps after a good flight of just under or over 3.5 minutes i put back 1900-2100 MAH

Temps...

Motor 69-70 deg C at the base of the motor and 67-69 deg C at the top, I have done a new canopy with larger cut outs for more air flow over both that and the packs, yet to try this.

Speedy 43 deg C

Packs 45-48 i take them out as soon as landing and pull them out and seperate the pair and take the temp ( figureing the hottest bit is the middle)

I would also like to use my castle creations speedy 85HV, is this a little small ?

The power this NEU has in the razor is great ! pushing 620 SAB blades, im getting 3.5-4 minutes of 2400-2450 HS, balistic flights, so i am thinking will a 690-710 bladed machine with less HS but more disc be the way to go ?

how much more does the Ionx weigh over the razor ?

I have been hasseling Glenn for a longer boom and belt and slip in a stratus fly bar, BAM a 90 size machine , whats your thoughts of that?

Am i better of with the shaft drive machine ?

thanks in advance

Dale

Dale,

Good to hear from you mate.

My single-staged 10s Ion-x weighs, all up, 4.5 kg, or about 0.5-0.6kg more than most 10s Razors (both using 2x5s Evo20 3700 packs). As I think you know, I got this heli from Dane (Mr3D). He was getting 4 min of hard 3D runs using +/-14 deg pitch, 690 v-blades, and these same packs.

I don't see any reason why you could not 'stretch' your Razor to run larger blades. You just need to slap on a stratus boom (and flybar) and find a longer belt from another 90 sized heli (raptor 60-90?). Personally, I like shaft drives over belts, mainly for their ease of maintenance. Properly set up both work fine imop.

I think that yout 1515/2y motor might be a little light-on for this 'stretched 90 Razor'. A Neu 1521/1.5f (1050kv) would be a better choice imop. This is the favourite Ion-x double staged 10-12s motor and will provide a bit more torque (a good thing for swinging larger blades) than your smaller 1515/2y. I just replaced my 1521/1.5f for a 1521/2y on my 15s Ion-x. If you are interested, PM me and I'll give you a great price on it!

Also, your HV85 should be fine for a 10-12s 90 sized heli. Just make sure it gets lots of airflow.

Best of luck on the Razor stretch and please let us know how you make out.

Cheers,
Tom C