pitch/throttle curves???

[swift123]

hi iv jst built my swift and followed te excellent video by finless, it is exactly the same with the same movement of +/- 11 of pitch does any 1 have any good pitch curve/throttle curves to get me started?? i brought the package that had the flight power 3700 pack and voltextra 3d motor! can any1 give me some tips please! oh and i have 5 points on my radio!

thanks guys

Dave

[Coolice]

Hey Dave,

You dont say if you are a beginner or experienced flier, but I will go with the latter for now. If your still a beginner reduce the amount of negative pitch to 0 or -1 at bottom stick.

Ideally you want 0 degree's of pitch at mid stick in all flight modes, and the maximum pitch will stay the same throughout except in hold. It is just the lower half of throttle stick travel which will change.

My setup is as follows, only really needing 3 points on the pitch curve :

Normal Mode : -3 ~ 0 ~ +10/11
IdleUp1 : -6 ~ 0 ~ +10/11
IdleUp2 : -11/10 ~ 0 ~ +10/11
Hold : -3/4 ~ +2 ~ +11/12

Notice I add a little more pitch at mid stick during throttle hold, this I find makes autos a lot nicer with no jump when I flick the old switch in the hover.

My throttle curve is as follows, I am using a similar option to yourself only running 6s but throttle setup of the Castle Creation 60a esc is the same.
Using govenor mode :

Normal Mode : 0 ~ 67% ~ 80% ~ 80% ~ 80%
IdleUp 1 : 90% straight line
IdleUp 2 : 96% ~ 90% ~ 96%

On the 3D Xtra motor we found it best to use the 9T pinion and not the 8T one supplied with the motor. With the newer 20C LiPo's the machine will manage 2~3 tic-tocs with this motor ok.

Any other questions just ask mate.
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[swift123]

hey thanks fo that mate! great help think we have spoken before about my trex your first name ian?

im not so good at setup always have to get a club member to help me, but flying im fine i think at the moment, sort of standard 3d stuff.

oh iv found that my motor gets extremly hot, so hot infact you cant hold you hand on it for more than 1 sec, NOT GOOD! but that may change now i have a good idea of the curves.

i sort of need to know the steps i should go through when building and setting up but i havnt found anyone that can really point me in the right direction.

thanks alot for that mate, hopefully hear back from you soon.

[swift123]

lol just looked at the bottem of you message and clearly says your name is Ian lol but we have emailed before about setup with my trex.

thanks mate

[Coolice]

Hey,

No worries, your very welcome.

Yes I am Ian, I have a few names given to me from Century & friends :arggg: but my real name is all I'm telling :wink:

Unfortunately the 3D Xtra motor does run quite hot, but it doesn't seem to mind to much. Originally due to the high Kv rating of the motor it was worked out that an 8T pinion was needed, but with time we found the 9 was the better option to raise the head speed slightly. While it will not set your hair on fire with blistering performance it certainly does go well with the newer C rated packs.
One thing to check though to be safe is the motor mounting screws, check they do not go into the motor too deep. I say this as I used hardened screws on mine originally without paying to much attention to their depth and within a few seconds of running the motor got very, very hot. After a few minutes I twigged they were going into the motor and touching the internal windings, hence shorting them out to the motor casing.

Any problems I can try to point you in the right direction no porblems.

Chat soon.
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[swift123]

hey,

iv checked that its not blinding and it isnt i put a larger washer on just to make sure. i also noticed that the tail drive and main gear arnt so much stiff just dnt move as freely as my trex or hirobo. could that be a problem causing the motor to draw alot of current and over heat?

i dnt want to be flying around and then the speed controller shut down so im sticking to hovering at the moment and small circuits (this is with the canopy off).

its a great model tho, flys loverly and stable.

running the motor flat out, wont cause damage, as i like to have high rotor rpm makes it more stable and fly slighty nicer i have woodys so have to be careful.
what you rekon?

cheers mate,

dave

[swift123]

think i may have found the motor problem i didnt have the speed controller in the correct mode a had it in auto mode not governor mode.

do you think that could be causing the problem??

dave

[swift123]

i dont have a clue what to expect from governor mode how do i know i have the correct setting, sorry for all the questions, hope you dont mind to much.

i set my governor mode to governor high not sure that is right. i also had to set mt endpoints to 125% low/high stick.

havnt got a clue????

dave

[Coolice]

Hi Dave,

Oh no dont worry about asking the questions mate, that is why I am here and part of my thing with Century. Plus I enjoy helping others so it's great.

You may have stumbled onto a good point, on my own machine I jumped straight to govenor mode without trying anything else. Others swear by a normal throttle setting, using curves to control rpm instead of the govenor but I have found it to be very reliable so far.

Ideally you are best with electrics to run the motors flat out rather than at a reduced throttle setting, this means the motor is going to be running at it's most efficient and inturn not causing excess heat to build up in the ESC as it has to dissipate the extra power somewhere or the motor.

The 3D Xtra is not reknowned to run cool unfortunately, the addition of the heat sink is a good move if you dont already have it fitted. But having said that it does run very well and even when I was 3D'ing mine it never failed, neither did the CC60 so it is a well matched setup.

Govenor mode is easy to set, the controller will maintain a set rpm which is roughly around 85% power I think and hold the motor at that speed. If it detects a change in current draw it will do it's best to provide more power to maintain rotor rpm.
Throttle setup for this is very simple, in normal mode have the throttle curve ramp up sharply to 85% power in the bottom stick to 1/3rd stick position. This gets the rpm up to the point where the govenor will cut in and take over, with the slow spool up option selected to you will not have a problem with the blades swinging in their holders on start up.
IdelUp 1 & 2 have a straight line across the board from low stick to full power at 90%, with either stunt mode engaged the motor will stay on the govenor at all times.

Settings I'd suggets are :
- Govenor mode high, as you have it.
- Advanced timing mode to, will give you a little more power to play with.

The endpoints I have experienced myself, not that high myself but I am guessing you are flying Futaba as I have heard they need more ATV value added to get the ESC to arm. In my case with JR gear I have had to add 5% top & bottom to arm the ESC, now running 105% travel in both directions.
It doesn't really matter, just add in whatever is needed to get the ESC to arm properly first time and every time.

I to love my Swift, I enjoy flying it so much and it is the best machine I have ever had thats for sure. It also inspires the confidence I need to further my skills.

Any problems or questions just ask.
Just need to get out there and enjoy the model now :D
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[swift123]

spot on mate! thanks for that and yer was a little worried because as you in norml mode must have a ramp or use hold and throttle cut and i didnt fancy that much because im not used to it and may get confused and dt want that when its at ful rpm sitting on the ground lol!

and really so the motor is best at full throttle?? because at the mo before i got your reply i set t as a normal throttle curve non governor and had 0-65 65-80 etc... up to full throttle is that ok to have really high rpm??

id love to work for a model flying company iv just finished my A levels and need some full time work for my travels nextyear!

im off flying now see how it goes!

cheers again mate!!

[Coolice]

Hey,

Cool, you welcome.

You wont have any problem running full power on the motor, the Swift I have found with blades sizes from 515 ~ 550mm like to run around the 2000rpm and like this feels so locked in.
I am running the new 600+ on 6s and have a 90% motor efficiency rpm of 2081, which really rocks inflight and feels good to. A friend running the new 550+ on 4s is also running this kind of speed on 530mm mains and he to commented on how much better the machine feels around the 2k mark and he's only just flying circuits.

I doubt you'll get to near 2k with the 3D Xtra motor and so in time if you do upgrade the motor I'd also say fit the ali head block as well to be safe and secure.

I'd love to work for a model company to and get paid :roll:
A lot of it and this is the main reason I love being with Century is the feeling of being part of a team and in turn being able to try new products, help promote them and then provide help to customers.

It's a great hobby, I have been flying since well before I was 14 years old and I'm 31 now and still find it exciting and scary at the same time.

Are you going to any shows this year? I am at Wings & Wheels in a few weeks, if you go seek me out and say hello dude.
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[swift123]

hey,

yer i wacked it up full yestaday and it seemed fine duno if the blades will hold but hey that all part of the excitement lol.

and yr should be there may come with my dad dont no yet, but ill be coming no matter what.

i was doing some pirorets too and found the spin rate not very fast i have full travel i think so got any ideas? have about 2mm either side of the slider on the shaft but in bobs videos it says try not to go striaght up to it causes the servo to sran to much dnt no? and i may move in a ball link on the head to get a faster role rate!

cheers

[swift123]

hey,
just been looking at some upgrades and im well up for getting some what do you think should i keep the motor i have and buy other parts or should i buy the motor instead??
they look great in the purple think i may get the metal head and blade grips and the motor what you rekon??

or do you think waiting for wings and wheels may be a better option? but they dnt really do much there for helis i noticed dont no?

Dave

[aramsdell]

Hi guys, Get the aluminum head block and stay with the plastic grips . I've broken a fair number of grips but the block hasn't been hurt in the least. If you still crash regularly(mine only on low inverted or autos now) then stick with the plastic bell mixers as they can disappear when a blade grip breaks on impact. I haven't had any problems with the grips or my wooden blades( 520/530/550) at up to 2100 rpm.

[Coolice]

Hi Dave,

Brilliant, sounds like your getting it all sorted now & flying nicely.

For increased tail travel you can increase the tail sliders movement, just pop the link off the servo end and operate the pushrod to feel for any binding. If there is a slight polishing of the tail output shaft may help remove the high spots from the shaft to allow the slider to move freely.
The tail as with any other control needs to be smooth and not have any binding, if there is then the servo could stall and you'll just give yourself more hassle. Take your time and extract what movement you can from it.
Also, what are your Tx. ATV values set to? Depending on what gyro your flying the travel limit is set in the gyro using a pot or other, but the piro speed is set in the Tx using the ATV's.

Upgrades. Well I have now started to fit most if not all on my own machine, I resisted for some time but like yourself love the bling factor. So far I have :

- Ali head block
- Motor mount
- Tail gear box
- Metal Swashplate
- Metal mixer arms
- Metal grips this weekend :wink:

I would definetly suggest the metal motor mount and the head block, as these are two worthwhile upgrades. The motor mount helps dissipate heat and also tighten up the frames a little more. The head block adds some strength to a good place and also adds to precision. I rememebr when I first fitted the head and rolled to knife edge and the model just responded and stayed knife edge, the controls feel so much more crisp.
The others while not really a necessatity look great and have some function, but could be added as an after thought later down the line.

Depending on your learning curve a better motor will be your next purchase as it will add that extra torque you will need to make trying new manouvers feel safer. There is nothing worse than running out of power at the wrong time.
A lot of your decision will hinge on what packs you want to run, if you want to stick with 4s then either the 550+ or 600+ (with an 80amp) will be a good choice. I have an original 600 Outrunner for sale cheap, but it requires 6s to run and so most people do not want the expense of 6s.

We'll get you there with a nice setup that does what you want it to as you learn it.
.

[swift123]

cheers dude! yer i want a nice crisp feel to my controls! iv just also bought the 450s trex and have used i similar process to set that up and both helis are flying great!
hmmm im not sure what is the added cost to using a 6s pack and also the added benefit i would gain from spending that bit more money?

and yer iv got the head on order!WEY!

[Coolice]

Hey,

Yeah the same setup as you have seen can be used on practically all electric helis and works well, it is the throttle curves on these models which require a good setup to achieve a smooth transition.

Going 6s would really just give you great power compared to a 4s setup, although the Century 550+ on 4s does go very well also as a buddy has one.
A lot of the problem with 6s is the cost of packs hence why the 4s setup is more popular.

Head block ordered yeah? The blinging process has begun :lol:
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