Questions about cyclic tuning

[teamitk]

I am trying to tune my cyclic to increase my roll rate... I really need some help! I read that moving the flybar links closer to the pivot point of the bell mixing arms on the blade grips would "speed up" the cyclic? I am running the adjustable aluminum bell mixer arms with the inner hole on 2-hole side attached to the long linkage running to the swash. The flybar linkage is set to the outer hole on the 3-hole side of the bell mixer arm. I tried moving the flybar linkage to the middle hole of the arm expecting to increase my roll rate, but that slowed it down. What gives?

I don't know what my cyclic pitch measures out to; I honestly don't even know how to measure it... could someone please explain that measurement to me?

I am runninga Hawk Pro with Century 3D paddles, Rotortech 560mm blades, 6mm spindle upgrade, hard dampers, no flybar weights, long balls on the swash inner ring, ~1950 headspeed, and an O.S .50 hyper.

I know I can only get so much performance out of this machine, I just want to maximize what I have... and I just don't really know how to tune cyclic. Your help is appreciated!

P.S. has anyone out there attempted to mount the trex 600 head to a Hawk/Raven like the guys are doing with their Raptors?

Don

[SteveH]

Don,

Your experiences with the ball locations on the mixers is normal, and correct. Think of the flybar input as stabilizing, so the farther out you go with the ball linked to the flybar, the faster the cyclic. The ball on the swash side should be in the inner hole for the fastest cyclic. The way you measure cyclic pitch is with a pitch guage on the blade, collective at 0 pitch, push cyclic all the way while holding the flybar perpendicular to the main shaft, and measure the pitch with the guage. Increase the cyclic until you get binding, and back off until the binding goes away.

The only thing I wonder about is what pinion gear do you have in the machine....the 14 tooth would give you a higher head speed, and increase the cyclic response.

[teamitk]

Steve, thanks for the input! I am running both the 14 tooth pinion and the 53 tooth gray speed up gear, with an overall ratio of 8.736. Maybe I should go for some lighter paddles? I think I read that the swift paddles are ultra responsive and will fit my stock 3mm flybar......

Don

[RAV50]

When tuning for faster cyclic I do it in these steps - in this order:

1 - Get the head seed up - 1850 to 1900
2 - Large, fat, light paddles (the 3mm White ones from MinAir work well here)
3 - Go to lghter 3D type of blades (Funkey 5533 or RT5560 are waht I like on my Pro)
4 - The last think I will do is tune the flybar bel/hiller mixing. :)

[SteveH]

Don,

RAV50 is right about the white MinAir paddles, they are fast. I haven't tried them, but folks tell me the new Curtis Youngblood Stubz paddles are insanely fast. Also the Century carbon paddles are REALLy fast too, but both of those are some coin.

[teamitk]

Thanks for the advise guys. It sounds like the simplest things make the biggest difference. I wonder if anyone could shoot me a link to the MA paddles; as I am not quite certain where to get them... which MA machine runs a 3mm flybar? I take it that the Century hot dog 3D paddles I am running are not even close to being in the same league as the MinAir paddles.....

If I am understanding this discussion correctly, if I want to increase my cyclic response, then I need to reduce the effectiveness if the flybar... please correct me if I am wrong. Wouldn't this mean that I need to go back to the short balls on the swash for the a-arms connecting to the washout arms? (to reduce the throw given to the flybar by the swash)

I guess the owner's manual tells me to do that; I remember reading it. I have just seen multiple posts saying to change out to all long balls on the swash, so I just assumed I needed to do the same.


By the way, Steve, I appreciate your post on setting up the Hawk over on that otheRR :wink: forum. Very useful! Thank you.

Don

[SteveH]

Don,

You want to keep the long balls on the swash....they give the INPUT to the flybar, and the more input you have the more response you have. The flybar is a ballace between response and stabilization. For response you want large light paddles with a reward mounting point and a sharp leading edge. For stabilization you want a small heavy paddle with a rounded leading edge.

I don't think you will find the white Min Air paddles by looking on line, but I got some sets from Ricks just a couple of weeks ago. Give Nathan a call and he'll fix you up.