Power systems that work - READ first post

[stevehonn]

I'm still to build mine yet but considering power options, I'm probably going to use the 600+ motor out of my Swift together with the CC P60 this has been using for 18 months. I've had a look at battery options as I have two 3300 3S packs as well as 2 2200 3S packs but the weight of the two 3300's combined is 560g and I have two 3700 6S packs used on the Swift that weigh 564g so using the 6S pack makes more sense just for an extra 4g! Just a bit of modification of the battery tray, i.e. saw the old one off and make a new one!

[Skaross]

Pic to show chassis mod made to my Hurricane to allow use of 2x 3S3300 packs. Grey plastic plate is some scrap plastic I had... velcro fixes the pack in place.

Kev

[Raydee]

Just wondering if the Align 75 amp ESC will do the job or is is junk?

[Skaross]

Im using the Align 75 with the Stock GAUI motor and it seems to work well. I use it in Governor mode with High timing.

I cant compare it to the original GAUI ESC because my original Hurricane was built with a CC80 (which smoked after only a few flights).

Kev

[dutch_anykey]

Hi Skarross,

Any idea why your cc80 smoked?
I'm setting up one now with the stock Gaui motor. (Z30 will be ordered soon)
I'm not sure about the PWM rate setting for this motor (13 kHz ??)

thanks
Maurice

[AdrianM]

13kHz is fine on just about everything...even Kontronic motors although Kontronic will tell you diffrently.

[mbigby2]

OK, I have a combo I really like.

Motor: Neu 1907/1.5Y (966 kV)
Pinion and gear: Stock 14T and 61T as a primary w/RevCo 61T Main gear.
ESC: Castle Phoenix 45HV
Throttle curves: 70% (Phoenix set to Governor High, gain set to High (83))
HEAD SPEED: ~1900
Pack size: 2 x 4S TP 2200's
Blade size: Mikado 500mm Carbon
Flight times, and style of flying: 9-10min, sport
Performance: Seems peppy to me, but I'm still learning.

In order to get the control arms to fit around the motor, I had to change out the mounting bolt for a slightly longer one (3x15mm) and shim it with a couple of M3 washers per side. It would seem that this has resulted in more straight linkages anyway. I'd probably do this even if I didn't have the wider motor.

I went 8S on the thinking that I wanted more flying time -- thinking I could gear down. Plus once you've made the jump to HV at 6 cells, what's two more?

I tried to order the complete RevCo set, but somehow only ordered the pinions and a couple of 61T main gears. Cleverly I omitted the 68T primary that would make the pinions useful. By the time I realized my mistake, the 68T gears were gone. Sigh.

I think this motor has more to give than the 14 tooth pinion can ask. The heli hovers at about 330 watts. This is my first post ever, so as soon as I figure out how to post pictures, I'll post my EagleTree graphs of the 14T setup.

Today's project is 15T. Its not clear to me how the CC 45/HV sets head speed. One theory I have about the 14 T is that 1900 RPM is close to the absolute limit for the gearing. Given that, the head speed decays as the voltage drops, regardless of the governor. It would seem that a better setup would be to gear the target head speed for ~70-80% of the max and then regulate down so that any (reasonable) voltage drop can be absorbed. Hence the 15T...

[Finless]

Sounds cool..... keep up the testing and let us know the final results!

Thanks,
Bob

[AdrianM]

Its good to know the 19xx motor fit. They are very efficient and powerful.

[nigel1]

Firstly thanks to Bob for all the videos they are great !

I have a stock motor and Castle Creations 80AMP Phoenix ESC. I am running a separate RX pack. I flew my heli with 2 x United Hobby Hextronix 11.1V 3S 2200 mah 20-30C packs...they got very hot and showed signs of swelling after the flight also only got 4 min. I have put back 1600mah which is almost 80%. They are not new and have been cycled many times in my Trex 450. I am looking for an economical solution to get me longer flight times, I am not flying radical (3D YET Smile !

everybody says, EVO 6s but then I could have just gone Trex600..I went Hurricane to keep costs down. Also if I stick to 2 x 3s I can at least use the charger I have. I am also considering the Century 600 Upgrade and the Revco 68 and 23 gears.

I see the century motor runs max amps 55 but what is its constant draw ?

back on the budget thing...United Hobbies now has 3s 4100mah, 15C packs for $64, I am thinking to try 2 of these...do you think they will cut it. If they are rated correctly they should be able to deliver 61amps constant but I suspect they are over rated so probably more like 45-60amp max ..would this be enough for the Century 600 ?

I can also get some local packs that guys say are not bad and make up my own 4000mah 6s 4p 20C (2 x 3s 2000mah 20C parallel) x 2 hooked in series = 4000mah, 22.2V, 20C - for a total cost of $200.00. and able to use these single 2000mah packs in my 450 too ?

Then my other thought is if I splurge on 2 x EVO 4900 25c 3s packs I could later use these in a Trex600...which seams to be the inevitable move in this costly addiction of electric helis !

I would like to get more power and min 7-8min flights on my Hurricane.

EDITED - Batteries aside !
I just got back from flying my 550 again...my slightly bulging lipos worked fine again but I plan on disposing of them now. I now see why everyone is upgrading motors...the stock motor is great for basic flying but it lacks guts, as soon as you start pushing the heli a little it just bogs down! So I have decided for my flying to now progress I have to upgrade the motor pinion and gear....should I go Gaui Silver Bullet or Century 600 ?

Would appreciate thoughts and advice on the motor choice and battery choice - Thanks.

[ianjh123]

nigel1, I have been using 2 x 3s 4000mAh 10C packs ($55 at TrueRC). My flying style is mainly sport, starting on loops etc now. I run the Zpower 1470kV Z20, stock blades and a 2000rpm headspeed. I get 9:20 on my timer, which allows me to stop just before they heat up. 10:00 minutes and they get quite hot. About 40 flights on them now with no problems.

Those packs from United Hobbies sound good, and I would like to try them myself. About 150g heavier but much better capacity. I find the hurricane balances well with the packs I am using. And you can mount these bigger packs easily (my picture is here http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=42447). You just need to move the ESC back on the frame as the wider packs won't allow it to mount at the front.

I don't have a logger but the packs I use seem to work for me. Hope this helps!

[nigel1]

Thanks for your feedback Ian. I looked at the truerc packs too...I just figured they may not deliver enough juice. I see you run the Z20 motor with these..now you have thrown me a curved ball...I have to choose motors...your set up would give me the flight time I want and the battery price point I want...but how the does the heli fly, if you could have more power would you want it ? How aggressively do you fly for the 9 min ?
Do you need to upgrade the pinion and gear with this motor ?

My options are now : Z20 1470, Z30-1100, New Gaui or Century 600
and I think battery wise I am going to go trueRc or hextronic...the price point is just too good and I am hooked on the size of the Hurricane.

[nigel1]

http://www.swift-tuning.com/motors.php

[ianjh123]

nigel1, I am just starting on doing loops, and more aerobatics will follow. I notice straight away this is taxing the batteries a bit more. I will monitor the batteries over the next few flights and let you know. I'm guessing the united hobbies batteries may be better for more aggressive flying. I think my setup has enough power for my current skills.

I have to say on a fresh set of batteries the full power climbout is much better than my Trex 450 could manage. But never having experienced a high power setup I can't compare to anything else.

Watch how the power/weight goes, the z30 is a fair bit heavier than the z20. I'm at 2.3kg already. I have a very early frame (very flexible) with matching gears and there has never been a problem with stripping gears. I will upgrade these soon though.

[mbigby2]

Pic to show chassis mod made to my Hurricane to allow use of 2x 3S3300 packs. Grey plastic plate is some scrap plastic I had... velcro fixes the pack in place.

How does the CG look w/ 2x3s3300? I went up to 2x4s2200 mostly to add runtime. I tested 2x4s3300 as a setup (had these batteries already), but without adding an ounce or two of lead to the tail, the CG was horked.

[stevehonn]

Pic to show chassis mod made to my Hurricane to allow use of 2x 3S3300 packs. Grey plastic plate is some scrap plastic I had... velcro fixes the pack in place.

How does the CG look w/ 2x3s3300? I went up to 2x4s2200 mostly to add runtime. I tested 2x4s3300 as a setup (had these batteries already), but without adding an ounce or two of lead to the tail, the CG was horked.

I run mine with 2x3s3300 and 3x3s2200 and there is only a small trim change between the two, inverted flight is still pretty easy with both.

[flypilot]

Motor : Z-20 1470KV
Pinion and gear : 16 teeth/61 teeth GAUI OK gears
ESC : Gaui 50A
Throttle curves: 80% and 100%
HEAD SPEED : at 100% i get 2250 RPM
Pack size: 5s 3700 Mah
Blade size : 500mm
Flight times, and style of flying : 6 min, mixed light 3d flying
Radio system: Dx7 with DS821 servos

For my level of experience it is just perfect, I get enough flight time to get something constructive out of it. I am very pleased with this heli, it has pushed my bounderies alot since I started flying it 2 weeks ago...very happy..

[Cam]

Motor : 3530-10T Kv1140 (I think)
Pinion and gear : 14 teeth/61 teeth GAUI OK gears
ESC : Hyperion 80 Amp (just so it dont blow)
Throttle curves: 100-70-100
HEAD SPEED : @ 100% 2300 RPM (calculated)
Pack size: 5s 3300 Mah 25C
Blade size : 500mm GAUI Carbon (Rounded so 450)
Flight times, and style of flying : 5min harsh
Radio system: Test Servos Cyclic, DS-20GMD Tail, GY401

This setup uses a single 5S pack. Battery temp stays below 50 C
Climbout is more than the 'GAUI' Black 3530 motor
The Heli balances ok with this pack.
A seperate SBEC is used to power the Rx.

You can do large loops with this setup.

The original front 42T main gears get eaten. The OK 42T gear is still getting hammered and not showing wear after 5 flights.

I've seen videos of the Z30 powered Hurricane and they're not close.

I'm finding the Hurricane an interesting heli. The tail resonates at one rpm- about 1800 on spool-up, then goes away at flying speed. The Hurricane is not as solid as the TRex 600 and I'll say thats not as solid as a Raptor.

More to come

[dadde]

Motor = Align 600L 1620kV
Gear = 14/61T
ESC= Align 75A
Settings on the ESC = 1,1 : 2,2 : 3,2 : 4,3 : 5,3 (Govenor ON)
Curves = Normal 0-45-85-85-85
Idle1 85-85-85-85-85
Idle2 95-95-95-95-95
Calculated Head speed (95% Eff.) = 2442 @ 100% Thottle curve.
Blades = Stock 500mm Gaui Woodies
Packs = 2500ma 6S E-Power 20-30C
Flight time = 5 minutes noob 3D

[Raydee]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA , I like that "Noob 3D"

[bclong21]

I have not played with the 600L motor yet but I plan to ;)

but lets do some math.

600L is 1620 KV X 14.8V (4S) = 23976 motor RPM
So with your pinions if you wanted a resonable head speed of say 2400 or 2500 then your pinion with your 68T gear would be:

22T = 9.91 ratio / 23976 = 2419 head speed
23T = 9.48 ratio / 23976 = 2529 head speed
24T = 9.09 ratio / 23976 = 2637 head speed

Now multiple all of these head speed by .80 for effeciency.

24T sounds good but I might go 23 with this motor. Also voltage has dropped so current is up thus flight time will go down. I bet this motor with 3300 packs is going to be about the same flight time I get with the 2500 packs. Disk loading will be higher too! Not the best thing. 5S probably would be better so do the math for 5S but again disk loading will be up but the higher voltage may be very much worth it.

We need a motor that is a LITTLE bigger than the Gaui motor but about 1100 to 1400 KV and that is VERY effecient.

I will try the 600L myself a little later like maybe weekend after next. But I think this motor is too big (weight and size). I am also looking at a hyperion motor to try on 5S.

Bob

[lawrenmd]

Align 600L
Align 75 amp ESC
5S 3850 TP Extreme
19T/68T
Actual Head speed at 90% gov 2360 rpm unloaded

Power is very respectable, not ballistic but plenty enough for 3D.
Temps are acceptable, here in Florida it's in the mid 90's ambient
Motor 155f
ESC 130-135f
batteries 130-135f

Flight time is 4.5 minutes safely on the 3850's with approx 2700mah expended for moderate 3D flight

More testing after I replace the 61T main gear, it lasted 4 flights with this set up.

[Calli]

Are there any news on the new GAUI Motor? How much current draws it? Is is usable with the 50A GAUI ESC?

What is the weight? The shops I found keep this as secret ;-)

Regards,
Carsten

[el-corazon]

Motor Z30A 1110
Pinion and gear 15T/42
ESC New Gaui 75A
Throttle curves 90% straight
HEAD SPEED about 2280
Pack size 6S, 3300mA 25C
Blade size MS Composite 515 CF
Flight times, and style of flying 4-5 minutes sport to 3D
Very nice performance, I´m a happy camper with this setup


Motor Z20A KV980
Pinion and gear 16T/42
ESC Stock Gaui 50A
Throttle curves 95% straight
HEAD SPEED about 1800 on 5S
HEAD SPEED about 2100 on 6S
Pack size 5S, 4000mA 20C
Blade size MS Composite 515 CF/GFK (535mm are also working well)
Flight times, and style of flying 10-12 minutes sport flying
Nice performance for training, scale like flying and longer flightimes.
Works nice on a 6S pack as well, for 3D flying, 2100 HS.
HI.
see that you have tried both z20-980 and z20 1500kv.witch motor would give the longest flight time on 5s 4000ma?

[red_z06]

Motor: Gaui 1500w 1100kv motor
Pinion: 14T with stock upgraded material gears ( 14T/42T)
ESC: Gaui 75A
T-C: 100%
Blade: Rototech 515mm
HeadSpeed: 2600 at hover with pack full
Pack: TP Extreme V2 3300 3s x 2
Flight Time: 4min hard 3D